www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old February 10th, 2019, 21:00   #3511
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

I don't think the Shell oil quality is the problem. But since that is such an easy change to make, I suppose it is worth trying.
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2019, 03:55   #3512
CleverUserName
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: NorCal
TDI(s): '09 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a57oval View Post
Thank you for taking the time to help me with this issue.
CLeverUserName,
Based on what your saying I should be checking EGR function and Injector balance. I failed to mention that I had to replace my EGR valve because it started to weep soot out of it after I cleaned it the first time so I wouldn't think that would be the issue. However I should read up on how the EGR functions, what controls it, and how to verify the system. I have a VCDS cable but am very ignorant in how to use it. Time to learn.

I will also look up "Injector balance" learn about that system, and how use VCDS to test it.
A question for you; You mentioned that Shell reformulated their T6 in 2017. Based on my previous oil reports dated before 2017 would it be fair to eliminate the Shell as the issue? My number seem to be pretty crappy both before and after 2017.
Fuel: I try to buy diesel from high volume stores locally and put Silver bottle Power Service in at every fill. About 4 ounces. I use the white bottle when its below freezing but that is very rare around Seattle.
Turbobrick 240:
What would be to first thing to check? Injectors and EGR function as CleverUserName suggested? Or do you think I should be looking elsewhere?
CleverUserName: You said;
"The Spray pattern of the injectors is questionable, however the oil sample itself doesnít show any evidence of soot related thickening. I would guess the oil thickened in both samples due to oxidation. The new T6 doesnít appear to be suitable for the ALH at a 10k interval which is why I recommended Mr. A57oval try something else in 5w40 in addition to finding the cause of his intake plugging up."
Is the plugging up of the intake related to oil quality? Maybe I should do this injector balance check and then have the injectors cleaned and balanced?
Can you recommend a company that does this? Do you think this would be necessary at 168,000 miles?

Sorry for all of the seemingly stupid questions. Truth is I am not fluid in this sort of problem. I got some lurnin' to do.
Thanks for everyone's input. Keep it coming.
Peter
Quote:
CLeverUserName,
Based on what your saying I should be checking EGR function and Injector balance. I failed to mention that I had to replace my EGR valve because it started to weep soot out of it after I cleaned it the first time so I wouldn't think that would be the issue. However I should read up on how the EGR functions, what controls it, and how to verify the system. I have a VCDS cable but am very ignorant in how to use it. Time to learn.
I would assume your EGR valve is open as you don't have a CEL, however if it was stuck open I do not know if you would have a CEL. Verify that it is opening and closing normally. Then use adaptation to set it to it's minimum value.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3xbkRKZ-24&app=desktop

Quote:
A question for you; You mentioned that Shell reformulated their T6 in 2017. Based on my previous oil reports dated before 2017 would it be fair to eliminate the Shell as the issue? My number seem to be pretty crappy both before and after 2017.
I've never used T6 and I really don't understand why people rave about it. When PQIA tested it a couple years ago, the results weren't impressive. It's a cheap product, in price and quality and I've never seen any great UOAs from people using it.

It's possible that Shell started putting the CK-4 formula in the old bottles prior to the roll-out.

You can't rule out the oil itself because the other member with the ALH tested in 12/2018 had the same thickening to a 50 wt. And you don't have any data from blackstone that would allow us to deduce what exactly happened. As I said, soot related thickening is abnormal w/ low insoluables and an OCI of 10K miles.

If you don't want to deal with the EGR or injectors, try a different 5w40 and have the oil analyzed by a lab that tests for actual soot, oxidation and TBN.

Quote:
Fuel: I try to buy diesel from high volume stores locally and put Silver bottle Power Service in at every fill. About 4 ounces. I use the white bottle when its below freezing but that is very rare around Seattle.
You can test your fuel to see if an anti-gel additive is needed. Try leaving a mason jar of fuel outside on a cold winter night and see what happens. Anti-Gel additives usually contain light distillates which dilute the other additives which you need for complete combustion.
The two most concentrated diesel fuel additives that I know about are the Redline Diesel Fuel catalyst and Amalgamated TDR-FL. These are both warm weather formulas. The amalgamated product is significantly cheaper than Redline as it is available in bulk, however it must be measured at each fill up.

Quote:
The Spray pattern of the injectors is questionable, however the oil sample itself doesnít show any evidence of soot related thickening. I would guess the oil thickened in both samples due to oxidation. The new T6 doesnít appear to be suitable for the ALH at a 10k interval which is why I recommended Mr. A57oval try something else in 5w40 in addition to finding the cause of his intake plugging up."
Is the plugging up of the intake related to oil quality? Maybe I should do this injector balance check and then have the injectors cleaned and balanced?
Can you recommend a company that does this? Do you think this would be necessary at 168,000 miles?
The intake gets plugged due to soot and oil vapor. They both mix together and form a plaque. Base oil quality does contribute to intake plugging. T6 was measured to have high volatility, so much more oil vapor than Redline 5w40 for example which has very low volatility. Over 2x as much. Basically a more expensive or "boutique" synthetic oil will have predominately Group IV and V base oils, which are very pure and stable. They can handle higher temperatures and resist evaporation. That's basically what your paying for. You can also install a Filtered Vapor Recovery Device (Mann Provent) and eliminate all oil vapor from the intake. This will add additional maintenance as the filter media must be checked periodically and may present an issue with emissions inspections. A Provent is a great upgrade, however it will cause you to fail an emissions inspection here in CA.

Injectors are a wear item. The spray pattern will degrade over time. They will need to be rebuilt or replaced. How long is determined by your fuel quality and duty cycle. Many people use this as an opportunity to upgrade to bigger injectors. An injector balance scan in VCDS can give you an indication that there *may* be something wrong and you have incomplete combustion due to poor fuel atomization. Incomplete combustion = soot.

DBW LLc in Idaho does Injector cleaning/calibration and also there is a place in Portland called Diesel Fuel Injection Service who can assist you.
CleverUserName is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2019, 05:04   #3513
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

Here's a little info from Blackstone regarding soot in oil and testing for it:

https://www.blackstone-labs.com/soot...h-is-too-much/

And here is a compilation of iron wear numbers from various oils in tdi's. Note the Rotella T6 is among the top performers. Yeah, some might say formulas change blah, blah, blah- I would argue that the T6 formulation has only gotten better over time.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/Blackstone oil wear test
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2019, 05:48   #3514
CleverUserName
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: NorCal
TDI(s): '09 Jetta
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by turbobrick240 View Post
Here's a little info from Blackstone regarding soot in oil and testing for it:
https://www.blackstone-labs.com/soot...h-is-too-much/
And here is a compilation of iron wear numbers from various oils in tdi's. Note the Rotella T6 is among the top performers. Yeah, some might say formulas change blah, blah, blah- I would argue that the T6 formulation has only gotten better over time.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/Blackstone oil wear test
This article provides much more information about soot control and it's effect in Engine oils if you care to read it. https://www.machinerylubrication.com...oot-oil-engine

TLDR - An engine oil with adequate dispersants in the formula does not readily thicken until soot gets over 4%. With additional dispersants, the soot load can be increased to over 7% before thickening takes place: Viscosity Vs. Soot Level

Most people who test different oils methodically don't use Blackstone because of their dubious testing methodology, questionable comments and the reasons we've already discussed.

I've seen Amsoil and Redline stomp on T6 in comparative tests on the same vehicle. Over and over again.

As I already said, numerous times, all these recent oil analysis that we have seen with T6 in an ALH that show premature thickening have LOW INSOLUABLES (Soot) as measured by blackstone.
CleverUserName is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 12th, 2019, 13:11   #3515
turbobrick240
Veteran Member
 
turbobrick240's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: maine
Default

Barring a conspiracy by Blackstone to make Amsoil look worse than it is, I'd say the only thing they're stomping in tdi usage is the owners wallet. The point of that exercise by Blackstone was to show that oils of appropriate weight & specification provide similar results, and people worry far too much about which oils are "best". Any 5w40 that meets CJ-4 or CK-4 certs is going to work great in the pre dpf tdi's.
turbobrick240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
© 1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.15166 seconds with 11 queries
[Output: 77.85 Kb. compressed to 69.96 Kb. by saving 7.89 Kb. (10.13%)]