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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old July 6th, 2018, 16:18   #1
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Denver
TDI(s): Q7 2013
Default 2013 Q7 Gen 2 - Low Power / Acceleration after fix. Poor MPG. Potential SAFETY issue.

Hi everyone,
I've been reading through the various threads on the reflections of other Audi 3.0 TDI owners after they've had their emissions fix, so I thought that I'd share my experience as well. Like many others, I've been really disappointed with how the car now drives post-fix.
While the MPG has definitely been negatively effected, we knew from the disclosures that that would be impacted. However, we did not expect the car to drive so differently that it became such a drag to drive and a potential safety issue. I wonder if any others have any additional updated advice on the low power issues that have developed after the fix?
Here's the letter that I wrote AOA last month as well as their response (see below), after taking my vehicle back to the dealer when the check engine light came on and a temp sensor had to be replaced.
Finally, I've logged every tank of gas since my purchase. While it doesn't appear that I can attach a file here, I can tell you that before the fix, my average MPG over the first four+ years of ownership was 23.38. Since the fix, it's gone down to 19.41.
Would love any of your thoughts and feedback.
Dear Mr. Keogh,
On December 27, 2016, I accepted and Audi Denver performed the Audi emissions fix for my 2013 Gen 2 Audi Q7.
Since then, our vehicleís performance has been seriously compromised as our car has lost significant power and its acceleration ability to the point that we feel the fix has put our family at risk. On at least two occasions, the delayed pick up and low power has nearly caused us to be in two accidents. Once while making a left turn across traffic, and the other while slowing down for a red light and then trying to accelerate when it turned green before stopping.
I first reported my concerns to the Audi of America Customer Service Center about one month after my repair. The agent told me in order to have the vehicle reviewed, I would need to bring the car back to the dealership and pay for an evaluation at my own expense. I refused that offer since I believe that was not a fair ask. Instead, I called the dealerís service manager to explain the problem and he explained that it would take the first 1,000 miles after the fix for the car to relearn the driving pattern. After that, he said the car should perform as normal. My car was actually 1,200 miles past the fix, but I decided to drive the car a couple more months to see how it goes, only to be disappointed that the issue seems to be getting much worse instead of improving.
Last week, my engine light illuminated and since I was due for a 75k service, I took the car to an expert Audi service center in Denver, Colorado who specializes in only VW and Audi vehicles. Itís the first time Iíve had my car serviced anywhere outside the dealership. However, I wanted an independent expert opinion on what I was experiencing. The mechanics agreed with me that something is definitely compromised with my vehicle and they recommended that I return to the dealer. In addition, the mechanics told me that the error codes reported in the software are related to the emissions system and suggested that these errors could be causing part of the problem that I am experiencing.
I called Audi Denver to book a service on June 18th and since the error codes are related to the emissions system, the Audi dealer agreed to cover the service evaluation and any emissions repair under the emissions warranty.
In particular, I want to share my specific concerns with you, all of which I began to experience AFTER the emissions fix:
  • Audi Fault Code: 38161: Reductant Metering Module Malfunction. Intermittent
  • Audi Fault Code: 18173: Exhaust Gas Recirculation Cooler Bypass Control Circuit. Intermittent. )
  • Loss of power (causing almost two accidents while driving since January)
  • No acceleration / significant delay in acceleration turning left across traffic.
  • No acceleration power from a standing stop
  • No acceleration power slowing to a stop and then re-accelerating. No power. Delay in acceleration.
  • No acceleration power, specifically worse between 1,000 RPMs and 2,000 RPMs
  • No acceleration coming out of all turns.
  • Downshift choppy from third to second gears and back up again. This is even worse when slowing down to first gear and then back up. This is an intermittent problem.
  • General acceleration delays during normal drive when increased speed is required. The car does not speed up and is significantly delayed after pressing the gas.
As you can imagine, I am very disappointed with the performance of my vehicle since Audi Denver performed the repair. Of course the MPG has deteriorated and the loud engine noise is present, which Audi disclosed as potential side-effects. However, Audi never disclosed the impact on safety due to a lack of power and acceleration.
I am most concerned about our familyís safety and that is the key issue that needs to be addressed because of the vehicle's low power and performance.
I have loved my car up and until this fix was implemented. Now, I am frustrated with Audi and upset that an awesome car has turned into a pretty awful driving experience and a potentially dangerous vehicle as well.
I wanted to address this issue directly with you and Audi of America before the situation gets even worse, so that Audi can have an opportunity to help rectify the matter with an appropriate resolution.
I look forward to hearing from you and your team on any other recommendations or fixes you would suggest.
I received word back from our Area Field Team that you have an appointment scheduled at the dealership on Monday, June 18. We have arranged from our Technical Field Manager Ė an engineer who works for Audi Ė to review the diagnostics and test drive your vehicle. This review will determine if your vehicle has a repairable condition and if any action is needed.
I also wanted to confirm that Iíve received your attachments, and they have been forwarded to the appropriate parties for review. Provided that your appointment will remain on Monday, I will plan to follow up with you once I receive a report from our team.
If you should have any additional questions, or if your appointment needs to change, please feel free to reach out to me directly so that I can assist.
Thank you for your patience as I awaited the reports from our field engineer.
I had the opportunity to review the notes in the file, and it seems that a recommendation was made to replace a sensor in order to address your concern with the check engine light. I trust that this has been completed and has resolved this concern.
During the course of your visit, your vehicle was also reviewed to ensure that no further repairable conditions are present. At this time, your vehicle has been found to be operating as designed, after the update was completed with reference to the emissions. There are no additional repairs needed.
We hope that the efforts of our team have assisted you. Your dealership is in the best position to evaluate any concerns that may arise in the future. Should you have additional questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly.
Executive Case Specialist
Audi of America, Inc.
Customer Experience Center
3800 Hamlin Road
Auburn Hills, MI 48326
DenverQ7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 18th, 2019, 00:37   #2
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: San Francisco
Fuel Economy: Pre-Fix
Default Sorry to hear...

I too own a 2013 Q7. All paperwork completed for the fix, but am waiting until the zero hour based on what I continue to read on this forum regarding the performance post fix.
My hope too is that Audi is monitoring and recording the data from the fixes and making adjustments as needed to make the process more smooth for those of us completing later rather than sooner.
I'm seriously considering Malone to re-tune my car to original specs following my fix.
(Been lurking for sometime...and this is my very first post)
Spicolte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 29th, 2019, 14:57   #3
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Louisiana
TDI(s): 2013

One of the colossal jokes in all this is, if the cars run like Denver Q7 reports after the emissions "fix," then folks will do what Spicolte is planning to do and get the emissions fix un-fixed so that the cars will perform like they originally did.

The novel "A Ship of Fools" comes to mind.

I wonder how much environmental "improvement" will result from the Famous Fix.
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Old January 31st, 2019, 17:35   #4
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Round Rock, Texas

The only real "improvement" came in the form of payouts to governments, lawyers and owners. The environment never noticed a thing in my opinion. The old 1986 Ford truck I am fixing to buy will probably spew more pollutants than all the diesel cars involved in the settlement, prefix.
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Old March 11th, 2019, 15:25   #5
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Back in So Flo - St Lucie

Hmm. Just completed the AEM on a 2013 Touareg. I think it actually drives better after the update. But of all the ones we have done, none have run worse. Wonder if the update is different on Audi side?

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Old April 29th, 2019, 11:38   #6
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Denver, CO
TDI(s): 2015 Audi A6
Default emission fix problems

Originally Posted by DenverQ7 View Post
Hi everyone,
I've been reading through the various threads on the reflections of other Audi 3.0 TDI owners after they've had their emissions fix, so I thought that I'd share my experience as well. Like many others, I've been really disappointed with how the car now drives post-fix.
While the MPG has definitely been negatively effected, we knew from the disclosures that that would be impacted. However, we did not expect the car to drive so differently that it became such a drag to drive and a potential safety issue. I wonder if any others have any additional updated advice on the low power issues that have developed after the fix?
That is interesting you are also in Denver, I have the same experience:

I loved my A6 since buying it, the torque, responsiveness and fuel economy were outstanding. For background purposes, I lived in Cincinnati for the 2 years I owned it at first. Last May (2018), I was in process of moving to Denver, CO. 2 days before the move, I got the "fix" done, in Cincinnati, and didn't really get to drive the car much before loading it on the back of the truck to Denver.

When I arrived here in Denver, and driving for a few days, I could tell something was off. Things got progressively worse as the car became a completely different car. It has zero power after depressing the gas pedal (esp when coming out of a turn), then 3-4 sec later, when it is already too late, it gives too much power after revving up and becomes almost hard to control. It hesitates and feels jerky (engine surges) when first started and at low RPMs in gears 2-3. Pulling out in front of traffic is a gamble every day as you are hoping for power to kick in. My wife refuses to drive my car because of the way it behaves now.

I took the issue up with Audi of America last Summer. They asked me to go to a dealer and have it checked for problems. I went to Audi Denver (same as OP) and they found no fault codes, although one service person told me in confidence that they are having a lot of issues with these "fixed" 3-liters around here. But surprisingly the car drove relatively fine for a day after getting it back from the dealer. Few days later problems resurfaced. I didn't have time to mess with the situation that Summer and Audi of America closed their case. In the meantime both oxygen sensors went out (at different times), covered under the extended warranty, and both times it went to the dealer, it drove much better for a day after getting it back. Recently I was at Audi Denver for the 45k mi service, and following it I decided to go to an independent Audi mechanic near my house for advice. They drove the car and said - a car should not drive like this and altitude cannot be blamed for this behavior. He did go ahead and "reset adaptations on the engine and transmission" which seemed to fix the problems. Again it drove well for a day and problems re-appeared and continued to get worse after the engine and transmissions were given time to "re-learn" whatever the hell they are learning with driving.

Finally I just contacted Audi of America again for advice and help, although I doubt any will be forthcoming. The rep will do some research and get back to me in a few days. I would happily give back the $ to get the old car back. Without hesitation. But that is not an option, obviously. I am also hesitant to lose the extended warranty at this point because what they did to these things seems like a situation begging for major problems to appear down the road. For example, part of the "fix" was installing a new oxygen sensor, according to the booklet, which for me was May 2018. Since then I have had both front and back O2 sensors go out (one in November 2018, another in December 2018). There is something terribly wrong with Oxygen regulation on these cars.

Any advice on what one should do here? Has Audi helped anyone in this type of situation before? Is there a tune of sort available that could help me, yet not void the extended warranty? Should I contact an attorney as I feel like I have been outright cheated with their promise of "the potential change in sound will not result in any noticeable changes to the driving characteristics of your vehicle". This is an outright lie in my experience.

Similar to OP - I don't care about decreased fuel economy, I don't care about revving higher before shifting during warm up, but I do care about car being an absolute piece of crap to drive. This past weekend I looked into trading it in, but am currently being offered sub $20k for it! Not a financial hit I am willing to take at this time. I can't sell it to another individual locally as it would not be fair.

Any advice/help is greatly appreciated.
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