If VW buys back your JSW, what will you replace it with?

tsundoku said:

There seems to be a widespread media perception that JSW buyers were only aiming at reduced fuel consumption and were cross-shopping the Prius. We've heard from a few of those people here but I would be surprised if it accounts for most of us. It's definitely not me - the only Toyota that managed my cross-shop list was the 86.

Fortunately the puppy isn't dead; the government just really wants you to put the puppy down, and can't make you do it except maybe if you live in one of three or four states.

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I'd never buy any toyota car. They are rolling appliances. I sat in the 86, but I had problems with the lack of head and leg room. Their pickups are pretty cool, however I have zero use for a pickup save for carting my bikes in... but my golf fits them just fine.

The golf tdi was one of the only cars I could find that got 40+ real mpg, head and legroom that was actually more than I needed. Add to all that a package that was super fun to drive. Couldn't be happier... then dieselgate hit. My opinion twards the car hasn't changed, but the company needs some work.

Regarding Toyota, I actually liked the 86 (experienced by me in BRZ form) very much, but I couldn't get past the fact that the rear window doesn't open. Flat cargo floor with the rear seats down, fun to drive, decent if not ideal styling, and unusually good MPG for a sports car (anything over mid-20s is reasonable to me, and I think the BRZ posts about 30 highway)... it was a near miss and if by some strange twist I am forced out of my JSW, I at least owe it another look. The interior fixtures looked and felt cheap compared to the Volkswagen standard I'm used to, but I think I'm going to encounter that just about anywhere unless I get a GTI or move up to BMW. Let's be fair on the leg and headroom; it's a sports car and being roomy isn't exactly a top priority in that class. I actually found the front passenger area to be roomy, but I'm not a large person; if the JSW were much bigger inside it would probably be too much for me.

Speaking of which, the company certainly needs some work, but they're clearly not the only one, even if their cheat was the most outrageous. Ultimately, if I needed to get into another car and a Volkswagen happened to be the one I liked the best, I'd still buy it. Denying myself the car I want out of a desire to punish VW for its wrongdoing isn't really helping me any.

I'm in no way downing the frs/brz. It's one of the best reviewed sport cars under $30k. But being 6'4" limits my choices a bit for sporty cars.

I recently test drove a 09 Porsche cayman with a manual transmission for giggles. Highway mpgs on that car is in the high 20s to low 30s. I fit just fine in that car. Plenty of headroom. Legroom was a little aggressive, but livable for a sports car. Overall it was a hoot to drive, even if it was a tad slow. Handling was beyond anything else I've driven before. If a sports car was a possibility I'd love to have the Cayman s. Used prices for them is in the lower $30k. I think that's the best handling car in that price range, even if it's slightly used.

But I only have room for one car. So I need practical too. The golf is one of a few cars that I fit in. And I love having a hatchback. My only other option is a crossover. The cx5 was pretty high on my list prior to getting the golf tdi I currently have. They lost because no manual transmission beyond the base model. I loved the 335d, even the automatic transmission was something I could live with, however I hated that they didn't make a wagon.

Right now I'm just going to drive the golf and worry about the options when they come in from vw in June.

Golf R is tops on my list.

South Coast Guy said:

Golf R is tops on my list.

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Yes!

I think if a buy back does indeed happen it would be a choice between the mkvi golf r or a mkvii gti. I'd also consider a previous generation audi A3 sportback (I like that they are slightly longer than the gti, but still have the gti engine and dsg transmission).

ATR said:

It's one of the best reviewed sport cars under $30k.

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Is there actually anything else, besides roadsters like the Miata? Unless I'm missing something it's kind of in a class to itself.

ATR said:

I recently test drove a 09 Porsche cayman with a manual transmission for giggles. Highway mpgs on that car is in the high 20s to low 30s. I fit just fine in that car. Plenty of headroom. Legroom was a little aggressive, but livable for a sports car. Overall it was a hoot to drive, even if it was a tad slow. Handling was beyond anything else I've driven before. If a sports car was a possibility I'd love to have the Cayman s. Used prices for them is in the lower $30k. I think that's the best handling car in that price range, even if it's slightly used.

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I will probably start looking at these once used 981 prices get that low. The cargo areas are oddly shaped compared to other cars, but I think it would be enough for me. This probably won't happen in time for any TDI buyback decision, but I have my eye on these cars for the longer term. It would probably have to be an only car for me, too, but I don't have kids or pets, so the bar for "practical" is relatively low - mostly I want to be able to road trip with computer equipment and drive largeish packages home from the office.

ATR said:

My only other option is a crossover. The cx5 was pretty high on my list prior to getting the golf tdi I currently have. They lost because no manual transmission beyond the base model. I loved the 335d, even the automatic transmission was something I could live with, however I hated that they didn't make a wagon.

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How does something like a CX-5 drive? The ride height makes me skeptical of the driving experience, and while I personally don't like the look of tall cars, sometimes I wonder whether my aversion to crossovers is purely aesthetic, or something more. I want to make sure I'm only ruling them out for legitimate reasons, at least.

ATR said:

Right now I'm just going to drive the golf and worry about the options when they come in from vw in June.

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Basically this. I feel like taking a buyback would be more trouble than it's worth, anyway.

tsundoku said:

There seems to be a widespread media perception that JSW buyers were only aiming at reduced fuel consumption and were cross-shopping the Prius.

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But have you driven a Prius? I rented a car with 84hp last year that had more pep than a prius. Hahaha!
Whatever happened to fahrvergnügen?

tsundoku said:

Fortunately the puppy isn't dead; the government just really wants you to put the puppy down, and can't make you do it except maybe if you live in one of three or four states.

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I agree, personally. I just bought my JSW a month ago.
Comparing the other wagon/ small SUV/ large hatchbacks out there to a JSW TDI feels like comparing a family dog to a pet store window guinea pig. Or maybe the lizards are on sale. Oooh look, tropical fish are pretty! No! Those other animals are all fine for what they are, but clearly no replacement for a dog.

ATR said:

Right now I'm just going to drive the golf and worry about the options when they come in from vw in June.

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Yes, sir.
If by some twist of fate I can no longer have my TDI JSW, I'll be reading here to find another vehicle that's fun to drive and fits all my stuff and gets great fuel economy and looks good with me in it.

tsundoku said:

Is there actually anything else, besides roadsters like the Miata? Unless I'm missing something it's kind of in a class to itself.

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Almost forgot about the MX-5. GREAT car, but again I just can't fit. It's like me trying to get into something medium sized when I need at least a large or XL. If it was 20% bigger for the driver I'd be happy. I honestly thing the Honda s2000 is bigger inside then the new MX-5

As far as used cars go there's lots of roadster options. Honda S2000, BMW Z4 and Porsche makes a few as well. Oh yeah, there's also the Lotus Elise! Great car with a bullet proof engine (Toyota engine ).

For american muscle there's the mustang convertible and comaro convertible. Of coarse going down this road there's the Corvette too.

But I'm more of a hard top fan. Car is overall lighter and stiffer for better overall handling

tsundoku said:

I will probably start looking at these once used 981 prices get that low. The cargo areas are oddly shaped compared to other cars, but I think it would be enough for me. This probably won't happen in time for any TDI buyback decision, but I have my eye on these cars for the longer term. It would probably have to be an only car for me, too, but I don't have kids or pets, so the bar for "practical" is relatively low - mostly I want to be able to road trip with computer equipment and drive largeish packages home from the office.

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Well with a dog and a growing bicycle hobby I don't see anything other than a hatchback or at the very least sedan working for me personally.

If I had no dog I could get by with a cayman pretty easy since there's a option for a roof rack

After driving the cayman around for 10-15 minutes I really wondered if there was a easy way to keep my 60lb buddy safely inside the car. quick search on the interwebs gave a big "NOPE!" and opinions of reporting you to the SPCA for stuffing a dog into the cargo area of the car

tsundoku said:

How does something like a CX-5 drive? The ride height makes me skeptical of the driving experience, and while I personally don't like the look of tall cars, sometimes I wonder whether my aversion to crossovers is purely aesthetic, or something more. I want to make sure I'm only ruling them out for legitimate reasons, at least.

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I drove one when it first came out. I was pretty impressed honestly!! Even with a 2.0 and auto transmission it was "fast enough". The 2.5 really added the needed torque and power to get it moving at a better pace.

As far as how it actually handles? Pretty impressively actually! Certianly nothing like a truck framed SUV of old. Since it's a uni-body framed vehicle just like most cars on the road it's much closer to that of a car then it's proportions would have you think. Think of it more of a wagon that's a bit taller then a car. Having the driver's seat on the stilts really helps with outward visibility.

tsundoku said:

Basically this. I feel like taking a buyback would be more trouble than it's worth, anyway.

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Preliminary buyback options is that you have 2 years to decide if you want to take the buyback or not. That may open up some other options for owners. If nothing else it'll really give them a lot of time to search for a replacement car/truck/suv/xover/sportscar

CruzinMomma said:

Yes, sir.
If by some twist of fate I can no longer have my TDI JSW, I'll be reading here to find another vehicle that's fun to drive and fits all my stuff and gets great fuel economy and looks good with me in it.

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The sad thing is that there really isn't much of a option beyond something like a Mazda 3 hatchback that would get near the MPG and utility of our cars
The Mazda 3 also doesn't have the grunt of a tdi even with a 2.5L engine. Meanwhile we just soldier on with our heaps of TORQUE

The torque and mpg are two things I'd miss the most about these cars...
And this forum is something else I'd miss if I had to move on. There's really no other car forum out there quite like this one.

ATR said:

After driving the cayman around for 10-15 minutes I really wondered if there was a easy way to keep my 60lb buddy safely inside the car.

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http://www.centerforpetsafety.org/test-results/harnesses/2013-harness-crash-test-videos/

Sleepypod Clickit pet harness is the only one to pass crash testing.

CruzinMomma said:

http://www.centerforpetsafety.org/test-results/harnesses/2013-harness-crash-test-videos/
Sleepypod Clickit pet harness is the only one to pass crash testing.

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Thanks!

I'll be getting one of those for my current car

The only Toyota I've ever considered was the turbo Supra, ha.

Face76 said:

The only Toyota I've ever considered was the turbo Supra, ha.

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YES! or a mk2 MR2 turbo.

If only Toyota made those kind of cars now

Bonus info... the SC300 and IS300 were both based on the supra and both can house a turbo supra engine. Pretty much sleeper cars with a supra engine installed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72wu2gnzl0U

tsundoku said:

Not that the North American market will ever see this Passat, much less in wagon form.

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Who's to say what will be available in the 2 years we will have to make up our minds.

Thanks for the Mazda suggestions. Are all of the Mazda's polluted with CVTs?

I don't think I am going to give up nice leather (or pleather) heated seats for a MT. I am too old for a stripped-down cloth seat interior.

ATR said:

I'd never buy any toyota car.

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As people pointed Toyota did make they have made good fun cars. Also
you can not deny the Corolla and Camry historically known as being one hell
of a reliable great appliance. On the negative side Toyota's Scion brand was
a sales failure. Where Honda has Acura and Nissan has Infinity. If you want
an exciting Japanese cars they do make them today from reasonable to very
expensive.

BRZ (Subaru)
Miata (Subaru)
WRX STI (Subaru)
370Z (Nissan)
IS-A (Infinity)
LSF (Infinity)
GT-R (Nissan)
NSX (Acura/Honda)
Yes Toyota is missing off that list, but they did make the Supra MkIV Twin Turbo.

To Mazda, as a kid, 70's, parents owned a Mazda RX-3 & GLC. I bought a broken
RX-2 rotary and swapped the bad engine out with a junk yard engine. I have great
memories but the early rotory engines would fail seals, and coolent leaked into
combustion rotor area. Mazda negatives, quality of current MX-3, which I thought
was a good car, I found out from co-works has crappy suspension issue, it falls
apart after 80K. This in the news: "Feds investigating Mazda CX-9 over suspension problems"

With that said I drove as a passenger in a new loaded MX6. It was nice looking.
Interior was upscale like VW. Again Mazda worries me a little with their issues I
hear from currentowners, but then compared to German cars it is nothing. RX-6
would be on the list.

VW Golf GTI-R would be nice if we open it back up to German cars, Audi as well.
However I am very happy with my 2010 JSW DSG.... I enjoy it, practical and of
course torque and MPG. I would get another TDI, used.

If I had to get a car today I would look for a 2008 or earlier Acura TL S. Big fat
V6 power, but a car almost 10 yrs old and only 16-27 MPG. Going from an average
per tank of 42.5 MPG that is a gulp. Also fuel will go back up again.

PFCoppinger said:

Thanks for the Mazda suggestions. Are all of the Mazda's polluted with CVTs? ...snip...

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To my knowledge, none are. Our CX-5's adaptive 6-speed automatic is one of the best, most intuitative ATs I've ever driven...and the chassis dynamics are impressive.

gmcjetpilot said:

As people pointed Toyota did make they have made good fun cars. Also
you can not deny the Corolla and Camry historically known as being one hell
of a reliable great appliance. On the negative side Toyota's Scion brand was
a sales failure. Where Honda has Acura and Nissan has Infinity. If you want
an exciting Japanese cars they do make them today from reasonable to very
expensive.

BRZ (Subaru)
Miata (Subaru)
WRX STI (Subaru)
370Z (Nissan)
IS-A (Infinity)
LSF (Infinity)
GT-R (Nissan)
NSX (Acura/Honda)
Yes Toyota is missing off that list, but they did make the Supra MkIV Twin Turbo.

To Mazda, as a kid, 70's, parents owned a Mazda RX-3 & GLC. I bought a broken
RX-2 rotary and swapped the bad engine out with a junk yard engine. I have great
memories but the early rotory engines would fail seals, and coolent leaked into
combustion rotor area. Mazda negatives, quality of current MX-3, which I thought
was a good car, I found out from co-works has crappy suspension issue, it falls
apart after 80K. This in the news: "Feds investigating Mazda CX-9 over suspension problems"

With that said I drove as a passenger in a new loaded MX6. It was nice looking.
Interior was upscale like VW. Again Mazda worries me a little with their issues I
hear from currentowners, but then compared to German cars it is nothing. RX-6
would be on the list.

VW Golf GTI-R would be nice if we open it back up to German cars, Audi as well.
However I am very happy with my 2010 JSW DSG.... I enjoy it, practical and of
course torque and MPG. I would get another TDI, used.

If I had to get a car today I would look for a 2008 or earlier Acura TL S. Big fat
V6 power, but a car almost 10 yrs old and only 16-27 MPG. Going from an average
per tank of 42.5 MPG that is a gulp. Also fuel will go back up again.

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Where can I get one of those Subaru miatas? The Subie dealer just laughed at me when I asked. May be a Toyota 911 in my future.

I replaced my '11 GTI with a '15 Mercedes C400. I'll probably replace the '10 TDI with a Tesla Model S or a Porsche Panamera. We have test driven both and we like both damn near equally. I think the Tesla edges it out for me, and the Porsche for my wife.. will be a close call either way.

PFCoppinger said:

Thanks for the Mazda suggestions. Are all of the Mazda's polluted with CVTs?

I don't think I am going to give up nice leather (or pleather) heated seats for a MT. I am too old for a stripped-down cloth seat interior.

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Every Mazda now has a 6 speed automatic transmission. They don't have any CVT transmissions at all in their line up.

PFCoppinger said:

Thanks for the Mazda suggestions. Are all of the Mazda's polluted with CVTs?

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Mazda has "zoom zoom" now. I wouldn't call it powerful, but maybe zippy. A distant second compared to a TDI for me. Some (or maybe all?) the models have a base level 6sp MT with cloth seats. Leather only comes in 6sp AT or shiftable AT.

The AT manual shifter is the little down-down-down or up-up-up motion. Don't try to throw it "up" from second into third because up is a lower gear

CruzinMomma said:

Mazda has "zoom zoom" now. I wouldn't call it powerful, but maybe zippy. A distant second compared to a TDI for me. Some (or maybe all?) the models have a base level 6sp MT with cloth seats. Leather only comes in 6sp AT or shiftable AT.
The AT manual shifter is the little down-down-down or up-up-up motion. Don't try to throw it "up" from second into third because up is a lower gear

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Mazda has a very aggressive lockup on the automatic transmission's torque converter so it actually feels close to a dsg. Though takeoffs are smoother. It's one of a very short list of automatic transmissions I can tolerate.

http://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/skyactiv/skyactiv-drive/

EricVA said:

I really like the new Subaru Outback. That's almost what I bought in 2010 when I got my JSW. It was a question of TDI fuel economy vs. AWD and the TDI won. I love my JSW and would hope to keep driving it into the foreseeable future.

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Yeah, had outbacks since 2007. Have one now (wifes car) with the JSW. Sure would be the first place I would look but as one poster said it's a bit early to say.

Another post was slamming CVTs. I also have driven some crappy cvts. However I think the outback one is quite good. It turns the small 4 banger into a peppy car and it is not constantly confused like other cvts.

rzbill said:

Yeah, had outbacks since 2007. Have one now (wifes car) with the JSW. Sure would be the first place I would look but as one poster said it's a bit early to say.

Another post was slamming CVTs. I also have driven some crappy cvts. However I think the outback one is quite good. It turns the small 4 banger into a peppy car and it is not constantly confused like other cvts.

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I've personally driven a Nissan CVT. Not bad, however I'd still prefer a manual transmission over a CVT. To be fair I've never driven a CVT subaru. I'll have to check one out soon to be fair.

I am going to wait until the specifics are announced before I start test driving anything. In particular I want to know if TDI is dead or not.

I to really want a stick. Having to drive any form of automatic is almost a deal killer to me. The JSW fit the bill for me - lots of capacity to carry stuff, manual transmission, good fuel economy, and it fits nicely in the garage.

Before I started driving VW, I had a Volvo 850 with a 5-speed manual. It was a really nice car, but maintenance could get rather expensive.

If I had to drive a gasser with an automatic, I might as well just go get a Prius.

ericy said:

I am going to wait until the specifics are announced before I start test driving anything. In particular I want to know if TDI is dead or not.

I to really want a stick. Having to drive any form of automatic is almost a deal killer to me. The JSW fit the bill for me - lots of capacity to carry stuff, manual transmission, good fuel economy, and it fits nicely in the garage.

Before I started driving VW, I had a Volvo 850 with a 5-speed manual. It was a really nice car, but maintenance could get rather expensive.

If I had to drive a gasser with an automatic, I might as well just go get a Prius.

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Humbug, mazda makes a fun car (Mazda 3 hatchback is available with a manual transmission on most trims). But even the auto isn't bad on them.

It's also won Car & Drivers 10 best 3 years in a row

The Mazda 3 looks good! And the Mazda 6 rivals the Passat in rear legroom.

Stealth TDI said:

The Mazda 3 looks good! And the Mazda 6 rivals the Passat in rear legroom.

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I'd say the Mazda 6 has the headroom closer to that of the CC though

I'm tall so I notice things like that first

ericy said:

I to really want a stick. Having to drive any form of automatic is almost a deal killer to me.

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Yeah, not even almost for me. I've seen and heard a great deal about "good" automatics, CVTs, and DSGs, and all of the standard lines about how automatics are faster than manuals now, but none of this matters to me; I'm interested in an overall engaging experience, not lap times. No clutch pedal, no deal, no exceptions... unless it's something like a Tesla that has no transmission in the first place, but the Model S is too big, the Model 3 is a sedan, and the support infrastructure for electric cars isn't good enough yet. It's been said several times in this thread that this or that automatic is okay, not bad, tolerable, etc., but I require a little more enthusiasm to drive a $30,000 purchase. I took turns driving a 2012 Golf TDI with a DSG on a road trip a few years ago, and "not bad" is how I would describe it. It was better than no control at all, but it wasn't like rowing my own. If a two-pedal TDI can't win me over, I don't think anything can.

The Mazda3 is a car that continues to linger in the periphery for me. Two years ago when I bought my JSW, it was only available with a manual transmission in the lower trim packages with the 2.0L engine, which was widely reported to be underpowered for the car (Car & Driver made this very clear in their 10Best writeups), so I didn't really look at it. Now that the higher-end 2.5 trims are available with manuals, I could go for it, although I'm iffy on the MazdaConnect screen; it kind of looks like someone ran over to Best Buy, bought a $40 Android tablet, and glued it to the dashboard. If I have a reason to consider a buyback, I'll at least drive one and think about it. I've been warned that the naturally-aspirated engines, even the 2.5, might feel strange for someone like me who has been driving cars that feel faster than they are due to torque, but I'd want to find out for myself.

tsundoku said:

I could go for it, although I'm iffy on the MazdaConnect screen; it kind of looks like someone ran over to Best Buy, bought a $40 Android tablet, and glued it to the dashboard.

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Even Audi did this in the Q3 though its a little less obvious than the Mazda one. I'm guessing that the 2017 Q3 will have this "tablet" retract into the dash like BMW X1 does.

The more I look at Q3s, the more I like them. If having to consider this buyback fiasco, I'll take the hit in MPG and cruise away in one of those bad boys.