Question about Stick Shift.

Hi, I have just got a new TDI GOLF 3 weeks ago, and i'm still learning to drive it with alomsot 5000km on it already!

I have 2 questions.

1. Is it normal for the some resistance to exists when you shift into frist gear (with clutch fully depress) when the car is rolling backwards? (Vice-versa for shifting into reverse when the car is still rolling forward?) Is like some pulsing feeling on the shift knob.

2. can you shift out of gear into netural without steping on the clutch? does it damage/wear out anything ?

Thanks!

Ken

It's never a good idea to shift into neutral (or do any shifting) without depressing the clutch with a fully manual stick shift car. If it has a cluctch then it is a fully manual stick shift. Use the clutch, even when shifting into neutral. If you are going to be coasting (rolling along withou accelerating) then roll along in gear (not in neutral) as this actually cuts the fuel supply completely and brings consumption down considerably (I have personally tested this). If you are coasting in neutral you are using fuel to keep the engine at idling speed.

happy shifting !

1) There is some resistance....not much...it is pretty smooth....it is a little notchy...you can feel it click into place. But I feel this in all gears. I think you may be talking about something different.
2)Always depress the clutch when shifting in and out of any gear, including neutral.

Mine has a *slight* resistance when engaging first gear, even with the clutch fully engaged.

Got mine about the same time as you did, and have a few more miles. The shift behaviour on my TDI is exactly as you describe. Don't know, but it feels like the sort of resistance that will become smoother and the transmission wears in with time.

Good luck!

I was always taught to:

Avoid leaving the clutch depressed for long periods of time. It stretches out the shift cable. With this in mind, try to avoid getting into the habit of doing this at stop lights.

Avoid shifting into first until the car is stopped. First gear is not cynchronized, so you put wear on first gear doing this while the car is rolling.

Same's true for putting it into reverse while still rolling forward.

Hmmm, I wonder if this will start an 8-page debate....

My $.02

I just recieved my 99 1/2 TDI the other night and I too have noticed a little studdering type feel if I press it a little farther upwards when I am in 3rd gear (could be all gears though). I was surprised at how much play there was in each gear but it is nowhere as bad as my 85 diesel.

I was surprised at how much play there was in each gear but ...

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Diesel Geek will take care of that play for you. It did for me. Drives like a Ferrari.

I was always taught to:

Avoid leaving the clutch depressed for long periods of time. It stretches out the shift cable. With this in mind, try to avoid getting into the habit of doing this at stop lights.

Avoid shifting into first until the car is stopped. First gear is not cynchronized, so you put wear on first gear doing this while the car is rolling.

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Holding clutch in for long periods would be harder on the throwout bearing as well, the bearing would be spinning under load longer than if you did not hold the clutch in. 03' has a hydraulic clutch so no cable stretch.

I think that the 03' at least has syncro's on all gears, I know reverse does which is new to me.

-Jack

I know that first has a synchro on it, but I believe reverse does not. Mine is an '03, and it has the slight crunch (sometimes) when going into reverse (unless I shift into second before reverse. Reverse also doesn't like to come out of gear as easily until stopped.

As general practice, I never shift into reverse when rolling forward, and never shift into forward when rolling in reverse (unless I'm at a stoplight/sign on a hill where I would have to).

I have had the exact same experience in my '03 Jetta.

The tranny has synchros for all forward gears. But not reverse. So don't try to shift into reverse when moving or expect some grinding.

Yes, you can shift out without the clutch if there isn't any 'force' on the tranny, as in you are not accelerating or deccerating. But I wouldn't make a habit out of it.

It's never a good idea to shift into neutral (or do any shifting) without depressing the clutch with a fully manual stick shift car. If it has a cluctch then it is a fully manual stick shift. Use the clutch, even when shifting into neutral. If you are going to be coasting (rolling along withou accelerating) then roll along in gear (not in neutral) as this actually cuts the fuel supply completely and brings consumption down considerably (I have personally tested this). If you are coasting in neutral you are using fuel to keep the engine at idling speed.

happy shifting !

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NOT TRUE !!

If you pull it out of gear at the point of 0 resistance , you will do NO DAMAGE !!!
You get a point of 0 resistance every time you shift , so speed shifting ( shifting without the clutch ) will not harm your transmission . I only use the clutch when starting and shifting down . I've been driving like this for 25 years , and never harmed a transmission . I've vissually verified this in two old transmission . I speedshifted a 1985 Jetta turbodiesel for 400,000 miles and then tore it apart and found very little wear , also it had 524,000 miles on it and still had the origional clutch . In fact I used parts from that transmission to fix another 5spd that had been run low of fluid !! I also had a 1979 Celica that I speedshifted for 400,000+ miles and still had the origional clutch in it at 540,000 miles . I sold it and it was still runing and shifting at 800,000 on the second clutch !!
Speedshifting @ or taking out of gear the point af 0 resistance will not harm your transmission . In fact if it is done properally , you will get less wear .

Hop This Helps

is it really true that its harder on the transmission if you downshift to slow down rather than braking in neutral?

No. That just doesn't make any sense. If that were the case, all the automatics out there would be having transmission problems because I highly doubt that these people regularly pop their car into neutral when they are slowing down. Actually, gearing down gently using the transmission will save you on brakes and tires. Big rig trucks use their transmissions to brake, and every automatic vehicle out there on the road that stays in "Drive" when approaching a stop is also using the transmission.
Braking in neutral will kill your brake pads and shoes. I avoid this as much as I can. As long as you aren't red lining your rpms when you are gearing down, and your motions aren't jerky, then you are doing fine-- and doing your car a favour!

definatly not red lining, i've just beed told that it wasnt too good.. and wanted a real answer... thanks

Downshifting the transmission through the gears to slow down does increase wear in the transmission and clutch. The big rigs downshift because the heavy loads will overheat their brakes. You will wear the synchros faster if you downshift, unless you learn to double clutch. And I don't know what the other guy was saying about coasting in gear using less fuel. Higher RPMs use more fuel. Ask any race car driver. Coasting in neutral is just fine. You generally want to leave it in gear to help slow down and be in the right gear should you have to speed up, but you don't need to row through the gears coming up to every light, either. To answer the original questions, putting the car in a forward gear while moving backward is harder on the synchronizers. It's best to come to a stop before selecting a forward gear. You won't kill anything doing it every once in a while, but don't make a habit of it. You can take the car out of gear without using the clutch, but you have to make sure the load is off of it, like the others have said. Some cars, like my MG, aren't really sensitive to this, while my Scout doesn't like it one bit. Keep using the clutch until you build a better feel for things. Oh, and automatics don't downshift until you are going so slow you hardly feel it. You don't get any engine braking in an auto unless you select a lower gear (unless you have a Saturn which downshifts one gear if it senses you are using the brakes a lot).

Coasting in gear in a TDI uses no fuel at all as long as the engine is spinning above idle speed. the ECU cuts off all fuel flow to the engine if the throttle pedal is not pushed and the engine is being turned faster than idle speed

And I don't know what the other guy was saying about coasting in gear using less fuel. Higher RPMs use more fuel. Ask any race car driver. Coasting in neutral is just fine.

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When coasting in gear a TDi (and any fuel injected car for that part)cuts fuel supply competely. Zilch / nadda/ nothing / no fuel being consumed intill the revs fall below idling speed, then fuel is supplied again to keep the engine idling. When coasting in gear you TDi is breathing only air wich is great for fuel consumption and has the added benefit that with no combustion, there's some nice cool air being breathed through the EGR keeping your EGT down and nicely cooling down your Turbo as well.

I have personally tested it, coasting in gear a TDi consumes NILL Diesel. At idling my Polo consumes +- 0.6l/h (parked) - this translates into a 0.6l/100km saving driving at 100km/h - i know it's not much but it's something - the real benefit is in cool EGT.

When coasting in gear a TDi (and any fuel injected car for that part)cuts fuel supply competely.

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O.K., I guess this applies to the new electronically controlled diesel injection pumps. New stuff comes along all of the time. I know the gasoline injection systems don't shut off fuel, and my old Scout diesel doesn't, either, but that's an older all mechanical system. I stand corrected.

Useing the trans to break (Manual) , could break the dampening springs on the clutch plate . But that is about it .

Most Automatics electronically sense that the torque coming from the wheels and not from the engine and will shift down automatically shift down to help breaking . So No is my answer this question .

Most fuel injected vehicles also cut fuel if you are just coating in gear. My Integra cut fuel while coasting until 1800 RPM (you could actually feel it switchover), not sure what RPM my Neon does it at.

Most MTX vehicles are hard to put into 1st unless you are completely stopped. I can do it in my Neon below 5 mph smoothly, my Integra has to be nearly completely stopped.

Forgive the newbie, but I don't understand how that works. How does the engine keep running if you completely cut the fuel supply to it (while coasting in gear)? What am I missing?

Actually, you just don't notice.

With it in gear, forward momentum keeps turning the motor until it slows to about idle, then the ECU starts putting fuel in sufficient to hold idle.

Makes sense now. Thanks.

The momentum and weight of the car is spinning the engine during decerllation. To save fuel, the algorythim that controls the injectors turns off all fuel to the engine.

On some vehicles, the alternator is turned ON during decelerration to improve engine-braking. It is turned OFF during accelleration to reduce load on the engine (improves 0-60 times)

Do not forget that the TDI has no throttle cable, the accellerator pedal is just a signal to the ECU that you wish the engine RPMs to increase. The ECU does all of the work to make it happen.

The engineers have come up with all kinds of "tricks" in the engine-control algorythims that improve running and reduce fuel consumption.

Using the vehicle speed sensors and engine speed sensors, the ECU has the ability to reduce wheelspin by cutting engine power when the wheels slip. Using the ABS system, each wheel can be indvidually braked to ELIMINATE wheelspin at that wheel. There is even yaw sensors that know when the vehicle is not traveling the direction that the front wheels are pointed. Brakes are applied to correct the resulting skid before it happens. (VW calls this feature "ESP")