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TDI (Diesel) Emissions This is a discussion about emissions from TDI's. Pro's cons of Diesels (including biodiesel) effects on the environment and how they compare to Gasoline and other fuel sources for Internal combustion engines.

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Old June 10th, 2018, 18:37   #1
2.2TDI
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Default Recent study shows new diesels are still very dirty

Found this article today and thought I would share

https://www.ft.com/content/9d052960-...b-4acfcfb08c11
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Old June 10th, 2018, 18:48   #2
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Old June 10th, 2018, 21:09   #3
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Hmm I was able to read it... Anyways this is a better written article on the same topic

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style...t-EU-standards
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Old June 11th, 2018, 09:36   #4
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A report released by CARB in 2016 ( "Measuring Real-World Emissions from the On-Road Passenger Fleet") used remote sensing to measure NOx emissions from traffic (in 2013 in West Los Angeles) similar to the True Initiative study.

CARB found that gasoline cars averaged 0.53 g NOx/kg fuel, while hybrids averaged 0.3 g NOx/kg fuel. VW diesel cars averaged ~18 g NOx/kg fuel, but BMW diesels averaged 0.4 g NOx/kg fuel.

BMW has been able to reduce exhaust NOx emissions to near hybrid levels for several years. Why diesel vehicles are having such a difficult time reducing NOx emissions in Europe seems rather strange.

By the way, more than just NOx emissions need to be measured. NOx is not the most problematic car emission from an ambient air pollution perspective.
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Old June 11th, 2018, 11:42   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
A report released by CARB in 2016 ( "Measuring Real-World Emissions from the On-Road Passenger Fleet") used remote sensing to measure NOx emissions from traffic (in 2013 in West Los Angeles) similar to the True Initiative study.

CARB found that gasoline cars averaged 0.53 g NOx/kg fuel, while hybrids averaged 0.3 g NOx/kg fuel. VW diesel cars averaged ~18 g NOx/kg fuel, but BMW diesels averaged 0.4 g NOx/kg fuel.

BMW has been able to reduce exhaust NOx emissions to near hybrid levels for several years. Why diesel vehicles are having such a difficult time reducing NOx emissions in Europe seems rather strange.

By the way, more than just NOx emissions need to be measured. NOx is not the most problematic car emission from an ambient air pollution perspective.
Agreed, but since dieselgate everyone seems to be focusing just on NOx and losing sight of everything else... it seems people just want to find as many reasons to get rid of diesels as fast as possible
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Old June 12th, 2018, 10:14   #6
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Certainly! It's a lot harder to flog the dead horse if you actually look at all the data . . . .
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Old June 12th, 2018, 21:19   #7
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How does this remote sensor know what kind of car it's looking at?
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Old June 13th, 2018, 09:04   #8
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Originally Posted by KLXD View Post
How does this remote sensor know what kind of car it's looking at?
Assuming this study used the same methodology, here is how cars are identified in remote sensing studies:


"...A video image of the license plate of each vehicle is recorded, and the transcribed plate is used to obtain non-personal vehicle information, including make, model year, vehicle identification number, and fuel type from the state registration records..."

https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.6b00717
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Old June 13th, 2018, 16:23   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
A report released by CARB in 2016 ( "Measuring Real-World Emissions from the On-Road Passenger Fleet") used remote sensing to measure NOx emissions from traffic (in 2013 in West Los Angeles) similar to the True Initiative study.

CARB found that gasoline cars averaged 0.53 g NOx/kg fuel, while hybrids averaged 0.3 g NOx/kg fuel. VW diesel cars averaged ~18 g NOx/kg fuel, but BMW diesels averaged 0.4 g NOx/kg fuel.

BMW has been able to reduce exhaust NOx emissions to near hybrid levels for several years. Why diesel vehicles are having such a difficult time reducing NOx emissions in Europe seems rather strange.

By the way, more than just NOx emissions need to be measured. NOx is not the most problematic car emission from an ambient air pollution perspective.
Great points wxman, thanks for 'clearing the air' on this topic that needs for education by the general public. In North America the '800 pound gorilla' are the millions and millions of gasoline cars averaging not better than mid to low 20s MPG and spewing lots of volatile organic compounds (VOCs) and other pollutants which combined are a much worse toxic formula than light duty diesel vehicles emit.
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Old June 15th, 2018, 03:49   #10
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How do pickup trucks with 5.0 diesels get to sell them? They are surely not in complying with NOX regs???
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Old June 15th, 2018, 08:40   #11
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How do pickup trucks with 5.0 diesels get to sell them? They are surely not in complying with NOX regs???
Larger pickup trucks and vans have a less strict emission standard that LD vehicles.

For example, the Nissan Titan XD with the 5.0 Cummins diesel is certified (in California) as LEV 3 ULEV340 ( https://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/onroad...340_diesel.pdf ). These vehicles are classified as "Medium Duty Vehicles" (MDV). MDVs include GVWs of 8501 lbs - 10,000 lbs (MDV4), and 10,0001 lbs - 14,000 lbs (MDV5 - https://www.dieselnet.com/standards/us/ld_ca.php#leviii ).

LEV3 LEV160 (Tier 3 Bin 160 federal) is the least strict category for LD vehicles.
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Old June 18th, 2018, 07:39   #12
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BMW is able to get their emissions down through the application of lots of expensive emissions control hardware. This isn't cost effective unless you have lots of profit to hide the cost in, or you can sell it for a significant premium.

Basically, it only works for luxury cars.
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Old June 18th, 2018, 08:21   #13
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I agree, BMW is using a combination of LNT and SCR in its U.S.-spec diesel vehicles for NOx emission control, which is expensive. But they don't have high-end diesel cars in Europe?
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Old June 18th, 2018, 16:19   #14
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They clearly don't want to spend the money on those. And they've got lower-end ones, too.
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Old June 29th, 2018, 10:11   #15
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How do pickup trucks with 5.0 diesels get to sell them? They are surely not in complying with NOX regs???
Cummins actually knows a thing or two about after treatment solutions. For starters, the 5.0 Cummins drinks DEF like I drink my whiskey. The 6.7 Cummins uses zero EGR after warmup, but drinks DEF as if there's no tomorrow when towing. Other engines in the same class sip DEF, but experience a lot more DPF failures and sticking VGT turbos.
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