ALH into MklV gasser chassis advice

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Last week my 2003 Jetta TDI was rear ended and totaled. I am looking to replace it, but very few budget TDI Jettas around here. It is looking that I probably won't get any reimbursement from the other parties insurance even though my car was unoccupied and legally parked. Details in another thread.
So anyways, I have a good 2003 ALH and 5 speed transaxle, etc and the corpse with a gls leather interior in great shape. 210K, head rebuilt by Frank at 167K when I bought it as a project with a broken TB. All work other than head rebuild was by myself. Competent mechanic abilities, maybe not so much in the electrical/electronic end of things.
Lots of decent MklV cars around, even some manuals. How much of a job is such a swap? Everything under the hood isn't too daunting, but ECU/cluster and wiring harness and splicing/tracing wires worries me.
Any advice or links to previous swaps are appreciated. Even the don't bother, it's too much hassle advice if the reasons are valid.
I have searched some (really) but haven't come up with much, probably due to wording etc.
I'm driving the 2001 thru the winter, so this will be a spring/summer project but I want to decide if I'm shopping for a donor car or another existing TDI "project".
TIA!
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Boy, that's a tough one. Sucks about your car. If you have the whole thing, then you can just transfer everything over, but it will be a big job. Lots of items are different.

People have done it, but keep in mind it would be a labor of love, not common sense (keep in mind I'd probably do it, too).

However, try and put a value on your time, and then you may just find out that it is worth spending a bit more and just finding a natural-born TDI instead, and if you find one that is already in good working order, then keep the other stuff as spares or sell/part it out to offset the cost.

The thing is, the gas engines in these cars, despite what some people think, are generally just as tough and long lasting as the diesels... they just need different things along the way. And if you find one that is in need of some mechanical work, chances are some of that need was caused by neglect, and the rest of the car will be a pile of crap anyways.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do, though.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
It will depend a lot on whether or not I get something out of the deadbeats insurance or not. The driver is clearly at fault, but it may be a non issue if they claim he didn't have permission to use their car.
Insurance adjuster comes tomorrow, but that has no bearing on if they will validate the claim.
I've had two TDIs for quite a long time, mostly just for a backup car. Would like to keep a spare one around. A lot of the reason is that the 2001 was a salvage vehicle with only 33K miles on it when I started that project. It had been rolled and the engine ruined. I ended up with a lot of (so far unused) spare parts. IP, turbo, steering rack, clutch and flywheel, etc. But while the body work was good looking, it isn't faring well with living in the road salt capital of the country.
Found an '03 manual Jetta wagon less than two hours away w/197K miles in decent looking shape for $5000. Not really a wagon guy, but it's the same color as the wrecked '03 (Black One).
How intensive is the wiring/electronics part of the swap?
Thanks for the advice so far.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
it would be a real pain to do it nicely. save the drive-train for something more worthwhile to do a swap in than a boring mk4 :p unless of course you love the mk4 and want to do an overhaul and make real nice one...
 

2many diesels

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Location
Nor Cal
TDI
rabbit pickup 1z swap Audi A4 Quattro ALH. 02 Beetle TDI. 99 Golf TDI. 03 Wagon TDI. 914 Porsche ALH t
I have a parts car my son and I recently pulled the wiring harness from. It is quite a job.
I had thought about converting a GTI to a tdi, but not after that.
I think it is easier to stick a tdi where it don't belong. Find another tdi with blown motor/trans, (like I did today) and swap your drive train into. lot less aspirin.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
I swapped an ALH into a vr6 wagon for my wife. The wiring was really no big deal. In fact, most of the changes I had to make were due to the change from auto to manual than from gas to diesel (the recipient was an auto).
The whole swap took exactly 4 weeks (with a 2 week vacation to the outer banks with the wife's family in the middle). Including regular 1-man-shop production.


The biggest pain was changing the tank which may or may not actually be necessary.
 
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roundout

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Location
dfw
TDI
5 speed ALH
I did it, had a 2002 5speed TDI and found a 99.5 auto gasser with a blown 2.0 engine. It is fairly easy if you have the entire donor car. Take lots of pictures and label your wiring harnesses before you remove them so that you get the routing correct. It's hard to stuff the harness through the hole in the firewall, but it fits. It's also a great time to refresh your suspension and subframe mounts if that stuff is old.

The only problems I encountered that have caused any lasting annoyance are airbags. The 99.5 didn't have curtain airbags and the 2002 does. The 99.5 does have airbags and heated seats (both cars were GLS) but the connectors are different. The heated seats you can hard wire but the airbags I haven't been bothered, because even if I wired them up, I still would get an airbag light for the curtain airbags being gone. Also, the crash which took out my 2002 activated the crash sensor in the airbag system (though no airbags deployed) and that would just be another thing to cost money with no assurances the system would work properly afterwards.

The 99.5 ABS unit was different, so I had to fabricate a mount to get the 2002 unit installed, but that was fairly easy. If it sounds daunting, I would recommend abandoning this project.

So far my car has 50k miles on it since the swap and has had no problems passing inspection in the 5 years I've taken it in, though we are pretty loose about stuff here in Texas.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
I swapped an ALH into a vr6 wagon for my wife. The wiring was really no big deal. In fact, most of the changes I had to make were due to the change from auto to manual than from gas to diesel (the recipient was an auto).
The whole swap took exactly 4 weeks (with a 2 week vacation to the outer banks with the wife's family in the middle). Including regular 1-man-shop production.


The biggest pain was changing the tank which may or may not actually be necessary.
That's a bit more encouraging.
How about the cluster? Does it need to be swapped or not?
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
I did it, had a 2002 5speed TDI and found a 99.5 auto gasser with a blown 2.0 engine. It is fairly easy if you have the entire donor car. Take lots of pictures and label your wiring harnesses before you remove them so that you get the routing correct. It's hard to stuff the harness through the hole in the firewall, but it fits. It's also a great time to refresh your suspension and subframe mounts if that stuff is old.

The only problems I encountered that have caused any lasting annoyance are airbags. The 99.5 didn't have curtain airbags and the 2002 does. The 99.5 does have airbags and heated seats (both cars were GLS) but the connectors are different. The heated seats you can hard wire but the airbags I haven't been bothered, because even if I wired them up, I still would get an airbag light for the curtain airbags being gone. Also, the crash which took out my 2002 activated the crash sensor in the airbag system (though no airbags deployed) and that would just be another thing to cost money with no assurances the system would work properly afterwards.

The 99.5 ABS unit was different, so I had to fabricate a mount to get the 2002 unit installed, but that was fairly easy. If it sounds daunting, I would recommend abandoning this project.

So far my car has 50k miles on it since the swap and has had no problems passing inspection in the 5 years I've taken it in, though we are pretty loose about stuff here in Texas.
Well, no inspections here in MN unless its a rebuild from salvage and I'm not actually doing that. Just replacing an engine as far as they are concerned, and in fact they wouldn't know/care.
I have the complete 2003 GLS donor car, although the entire back end is destroyed, but nothing back there I need.
If I do a swap, I will find a very close replacement year. I like the few changes in the later model MklV's like the center cupholders etc. So airbag issues, ABS etc shouldn't be an issue.
Found a couple decent MKlV 2004 and early model '05s. Any further complications of going up a year or two as long as it's a MklV??
Thanks for the info so far.

I have found a '03 wagon w/197K miles on it for $5K. A hour and half from home. It's about due for a TB, which is almost prefereable to me since I wouldn't trust a "recent" unknown source anyways. If that pans out it may put an end to the swap thoughts, although not really wanting a wagon very bad.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
That's a bit more encouraging.
How about the cluster? Does it need to be swapped or not?
I sent the gasser cluster along with the diesel ECM and the recipient keys to Marin (jetta_97) and he fixed 'em all up. He even put a 5000 tach face on it.
If I didn't have access to his wizardry, I would have just swapped out the door lock cylinder, ignition cylinder, and cluster.

The main reason I didn't do that is because the donor car was an 00 with a BD and the recipient wagon had ASR. I wanted there to be no conflicts, so I needed to run a GN/CP ECM. Not that I really wanted ASR, I just didn't want it always yelling at me about the problem. I also wanted the 4wire GP harness. So I bought a GN somewhere and a 4 wire engine side harness.
That meant that the donor keys and cluster were useless to me.

Immo works. Everything works.

Also, climatronic sucks. Its just dumb.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
There is no "stuffing wires through the firewall"

There are several connetors in the rain tray under the wiper linkage that unite the engine wiring with the vehicle wiring. They are color coded and easy to locate in the diagrams.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah, the newer cars are more plug 'n play.

I agree about the Climatronic. Just another headache waiting to happen.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
I agree about the Climatronic. Just another headache waiting to happen.
In my manual HVAC golf can change the fan speed, vent selection, or vary the temperature without taking my eyes off the road.
In the climatronic car, I have to look down, locate the appropriate button (out of about 10) then, to alter the desired temperature for instance, I have to tap the button like 5 to 10 times.

Want to recirc? Gotta look at the damn thing again. Want floor and forward vents? Look down. Want it to NOT run the compressor all the time. Push another button...etc.

Climatronic is the dumbest thing.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yeah, I think the "idea" is that you don't have to ever tinker with it, just set it and forget it. But like you, I never found myself being comfortable letting it be. I adjust my HVAC controls every single time I am in the car, really. Some of the higher end Audi versions are better, but the ones that found their way into A4 and B5 Volkswagens is just abysmal.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Note to self, "avoid any prospective VW w/Climatronic".
Not that I ever had a reason or use for it. I like the conventional manual controls. Even in the wife's Avalon it's on manually instead of letting it figure out what we should have/want. That thing has about the quietest blower fan of anything I've owned to date.
Thanks for the suggestions, again.
 

blazen71

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Location
Wiskullsin
TDI
All Gone
In my manual HVAC golf can change the fan speed, vent selection, or vary the temperature without taking my eyes off the road.
In the climatronic car, I have to look down, locate the appropriate button (out of about 10) then, to alter the desired temperature for instance, I have to tap the button like 5 to 10 times.
Want to recirc? Gotta look at the damn thing again. Want floor and forward vents? Look down. Want it to NOT run the compressor all the time. Push another button...etc.
Climatronic is the dumbest thing.
I feel exactly the same going from my 03' Jetta GS to the wife's 03' Allroad.
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Well, it's been a long time and there was no update(s) since the whole project sat for over a year, almost two years all together.
Anyways, soon after the original post I found a rather nice 2003 Jetta GLS w/"leather", manual and steering wheel controls. $600. I liked the color (sort of charcoal gray??) and no rust. 1.8T engine that siezed the WP and snapped the belt. Decent tires/wheels but 245/17. Put them on the 2003 1.8 wagon when I sold it.
Pulled the engine and wiring harnesses out before winter came and then it sat in the shed. When spring came I got the Tdi fired up and into the garage and pulled that engine, wiring harness, etc. Friends and family shook their heads and envisioned cars soon to be sold for scrap.
Again, it sat over winter. One car in the shed the other out behind. Both w/o engines and the donor TDI chassis picked pretty bare.
A couple months ago the urge to get back into it set in, I guess, and I started to put together the wiring info I had gotten thru contacts here and Vortex. One member was especially helpful with wiring diagrams of his swap. Lots of text messages, etc.
Put all the wiring harnesses in the donor chassis and eventually got to the engine installation. Hooked all the plumbing (except the AC, have to swap hoses on the compressor yet-they are different as is the power steering pump to rack hose). Engine wiring part is easy since using the TDI harnesses everything just plugs back in. Sent the ECU off to have the immobilizer deleted and plugged that in and installed the TDI gauge cluster.
Yesterday it was time to see if the homemade 109 relay board system would wake the GPS and everything up. Hopefully it would crank the starter. Cautiously turned the key on, cluster lights up, GP indicator comes on/goes out. Give it a crank and it immediately starts up. Startled me since I didn't even have coolant in it, I didn't intend to actually start it. Wahoo!!
Today I flushed the old coolant and refilled to do a short test run (not driveable yet). Found no throttle pedal imput and not surprised as I have heard the TDI pedal unit needs to get swapped. Forgot about that. If everything seems to work ok after finishing up, I will probably send the ECU and cluster off for some more work to get rid of the immobilizer light and the traction control light. The GP light is also flashing but that may be due to the throttle pedal issue. The OBD port seems to function even though some said it would not. At least it worked with the engine off, not sure about when running.
So far I'm pretty stoked with how it went and it really wouldn't take too long the next time if I stayed at it, but when it's just a spare project car it's hard to not let other things take priority.
I'll try to update as issues pop up and/or get solved.
 
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Location
indiana
TDI
mk4
Nice! very curious on your wiring swaps! sent you a PM as well. I am swapping a 00 Jetta TDI manual trans to an 00 Golf 1.8t Manual trans. everything engine wise is done. just trying to figure out if the rain tray plugs are just plug and play?
 

jettawreck

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2004
Location
Northern Minnesota-55744
TDI
2001 Jetta and 2003 Jetta
Nice! very curious on your wiring swaps! sent you a PM as well. I am swapping a 00 Jetta TDI manual trans to an 00 Golf 1.8t Manual trans. everything engine wise is done. just trying to figure out if the rain tray plugs are just plug and play?
No, the directions I followed/used made a few pin changes to various connectors in the rain tray box.
I've been scurrying back and forth working out of town and getting a few ice fishing trips to Ontario mixed in, so haven't been home long enough to search out my build notes as to the specifics.
The pin changes are very crucial, so need to get them exactly right and I have no chance of doing that from memory.
 
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