VE Hydraulic Head Replacement While on Car

The other day im driving around and all of a sudden my car just dies. I haven't been able to get it to start back up, it's a 2000 Jetta with the 5 speed. I ran a few test on it, no codes other than egr related. ASV is free and there is a new fuel filter on it. I cracked the fuel lines at the top of the injector and it is getting fuel but instead of spraying the fuel it is just dribbling out of the lines.

This brings me to believe that the hydraulic head or distributor head (same thing) isn't building enough pressure to pop the injectors. My question is would changing the hydraulic head restore the pressure and if so can this be done while the pump is still attached to the car? if this is possible how much better does an 11mm pump perform over the 10mm for the manual cars? Thank you guys in advance!

Can say as I hear folks complaint about their 10mm injection pump, 11mm(or 12) may be better for high end (180+ hp), idk.
Sounds like you want to service the injection pump. First check if it is leaking, there are seal kits available, but if it's just worn out get a new one or send your over to DFIS in Oregon for a rebuild (pricey, but they do great work). It's tough to diagnose just when these pumps are worn out, but they can get pretty worn inside. But check the rest of the fuel supply system for leaks, maybe bleed the pump and crack the injector nuts again, see if you get a nice spray..

Not sure how you jumped from "my car suddenly died" to "I want to replace the head on the injection pump", but I can assure you that you missed a few steps along that diagnostic path. Actually, I think you missed the whole path.

I would start with the basic OBD part. Do not even need to get your hands dirty.

I appreciate your replies. As far as I can tell it looks like there is a slight leak around the cast iron and aluminum section. The only code that I have is in regard to the egr but that is because I deleted my egr cooler. I have tested multiple other things but will go back and check the rest of my fuel system for leaks

How many miles?

Have you had ANY starting issues in the past?

Any recent changes in fuel? Sometimes folks will switch to running biodiesel and that can swell up seals and eek out some more life: switching usually requires a filter change or two as the biodiesel will shed crap from the fuel system.

Unless you're looking to do performance mods an 11mm IP isn't going to do anything for you: you'd need to tune back on the IQ a bit, as it'll flow more fuel than the ECU is aware of. Larger pumps tend to carry larger price tags; if you can get one for a good price then there's no real issue going that route (though fuel economy would take a slight hit).

My car has 297k miles. I had an injector fail about a year ago and got new injectors and haven't had a starting issue since. As for fuel I haven't changed anything. Just running shell diesel with stanadyne additive.

OK, close to 300k miles would tend to suggest that an IP might be nearing its end.

what kind of return flow do you have? Could there be a problem with the fuel shut off solenoid?

I'm not getting anything for return flow. The fuel shutoff solenoid is functioning properly and I have no issues with relay 109. I got the car three years ago and there was a reman pump installed at 214k miles. If it is the IP at its end is there anyway it can be rebuilt or should that be left to the pros?

I missed that the IP had been rebuilt. My bad.

I'd think that if the rebuild was done properly -who did it?- that it should be good for more miles than what you've currently got on it.

It all depends on what's wrong with it. Might be sucking in air from bad seals; that's something that people DO do themselves, though it's probably somewhere around a level of 8(?) on a scale of 10 (10 being hardest to do). If there's a more structural issue (no idea on how to really determine; experts here can probably speak to this) then it's something that you (or anyone else who doesn't have the equipment) wouldn't be able to take care of.

"driving around and all of a sudden my car just dies" doesn't suggest a seal problem to me. At least not at the pump head to case interface nor the QA or top cover seals, all of which are under pressure while engine is running.

I'd be looking at the supply side. Filter, pickup in tank, small sections of hose between tank and filter etc.

And to answer your question, I'd say no. There's a buncha parts, cam plate, rollers, and a shim come to mind, that'll fall out of place when you pull the head out.

I agree with the above suggestions from KLXD. If this were a BEW, my first thought would be in-tank pump which does not apply here.

oilhammer said:

Not sure how you jumped from "my car suddenly died" to "I want to replace the head on the injection pump", but I can assure you that you missed a few steps along that diagnostic path. Actually, I think you missed the whole path.

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Ah, no Jethro. Diagnosis does not mean replacing what ever parts are named in the text of a DTC. It means finding out why the ECU set the DTC.

Electric steering DTCs? No problem. We will replace your steering rack for $2500. Turns out the actual problem was a loose ground. A couple hours on a Saturday and the owner fixed it himself.

Total cash outlay, about $1 for a new locknut.

By far. the most important tool in your tool box is having a good working knowledge about how something works. Without that, your VCDS in nothing more than a fancy toy. Remember that not all problems will even set a DTC.

If there was a leak in the supply side would there be air bubbles visible in the clear fuel line? I can put a vacuum on the filter from the tank and it holds, I can also do the same on the return side of the pump. This makes me think that there aren't any leaks on the supply side. Thank you for all of the help so far, as to the rebuild of the pump I will definitely let the pros do that!

Also note that these engines use very little fuel at idle, and as such fuel will kinda just "dribble out" if you crack an injector and turn the engine over with the starter.

"Dribble out" being a subjective phrase, of course.

In-tank pick-up? Some sort of temporary blockage that results in sucking in some air?

relay 109?

Does the glow plug light blink on for a second when you switch the key to the on position?

Mine died a year or so ago. Wouldn't start up after a fuel up. Sat there at the pump and cycled the key over and over until it showed me a GP light. Started up and drove on home. Put a new 109 in it the next day.

oilhammer said:

I can assure you that you missed a few steps along that diagnostic path. Actually, I think you missed the whole path.

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Nice.

Suddenly died, I would change the 109 just to see. Cheap and fast, I have a spare in the glove box just in case.

I used to work at a Bosch injection shop as a mechanic but I worked on diesel pickups not VW's so I'm not as familiar with their systems. I already tested relay 109, swapped it with a known working one. Glow plug light came on with both relays and cycled per normal both times. That didnt work so I checked voltage between the positive side of the fuel shut off valve to ground and I'm getting 12.4v there. As for the pick up in the tank I pulled the top under the backseat and I'm not seeing any kind of blockage there. I primed the IP and still wasn't able to get it to start. The injectors have pp520s mounted and balanced and have 10k miles on them so I don't see how those could be the issue. With everything that I have read on the ve pump for this car it should produce about 3000psi to the injector. The injectors pop with about 3100-3400 psi. With that shouldn't I be getting more than just a dribble out of the injector lines? Thank you guys for pointing me in directions to test! It's got me stumped..

Yes, lotsa pressure but not a lot of volume.

Just a dribble is about right. However, if you loosen an injector nut just a wee bit (almost tight) there might be a "spray" of a sorts. Otherwise, just because an injector nut is loosened doesn't mean the IP will spray loads of fuel ...... as KLXD alluded to, pressure and not a lot of volume. Remember, when you are cranking it over to bleed injector lines, the IP/ECU are basically in idle mode, thus a very small amount of fuel will be expelled is what's to be expected.

try the case pressure relief valve. It's got a round head with two flats machined into it, located near the fuel inlet. I'm sure there's a special socket for it but I mashed an 11mm(I think) 12 point socket in a vise to make mine. Chances are you'll find it has puked it's guts out, to include a roll pin and spring, into the bore in which it is housed. It's a simple matter of replacing the guts and resetting the roll pin into the bore of the valve and you'll likely be back up and running. I'm sure there's a write up and pictures around here somewhere... Case pressure relief valve

sent from my mobile look-at device

Well I figured it out everyone! I pulled the QA off the top of the pump and looked down inside the pump and the distributor shaft was snapped. So this opens up a variety of options. First with the injectors that I have pp520's how well would the 11mm pump work? Would a 12mm make more smoke than anything or would there be a significant performance increase? I can sleep better at night now that I found the issue! Thanks for all of your guys help!

Wow. Never heard of that happening except when some screws up an in the car seal replacement.

KLXD said:

Wow. Never heard of that happening except when some screws up an in the car seal replacement.

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Indeed. Strange.