ALH Jumped timing?

Jettawreck, that's more evidence that the TBs are a rather tough component. Based on my recent experience with the locked WP and the condition (bad) of several tensioners and idlers, I believe the concern should be with those components more than the TB, other than age. But, I'm not too concerned about the age thingy either.

At 104k miles, the second TB on my 80 Rabbit diesel snapped. I cannot remember what the change interval was for those little beasts, but I did change the OE belt at 110k and was looking for a time to change the second belt when it gave way. So, that experience was a wake-up for me early on with VW diesels.

Ashby L said:

Well said Jettawreck and lesson learned. Just put too much faith in the mans word. Surely won’t happen again. I’ll keep y’all posted on my findings when I get around to it.

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My 00 supposedly had a new belt but I never trust that and unless you have reputable paperwork I can't trust it, when I pulled it off it was starting to crack like dry rotted and when I added 2 and 2 together at 297k I figured the belt was done every 100k and it was time, then I learned about the old belts being 60k belts but it's piece of mind and it was a 1 owner with almost 300k on it and solid as a rock, it was so stock it didn't have an armrest in the middle... salvage yard corrected that, I love grey interiors cause they are all over the salvage yard

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WildChild80 said:

My 00 supposedly had a new belt but I never trust that and unless you have reputable paperwork I can't trust it, when I pulled it off it was starting to crack like dry rotted and when I added 2 and 2 together at 297k I figured the belt was done every 100k and it was time, then I learned about the old belts being 60k belts but it's piece of mind and it was a 1 owner with almost 300k on it and solid as a rock, it was so stock it didn't have an armrest in the middle... salvage yard corrected that, I love grey interiors cause they are all over the salvage yard

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Yeah thats where i messed up not getting documentation on the TB. I wanted to get around to the TB for peace of mind despite what the previous owner said but i was addicted to the fuel savings. Getting 50 mpg vs. my 15mpg truck made it hard to want to put the TDI down for a few days to do the TB haha.... and now i am paying the price.

I was fortunate on the first TDI because the bearing support in the water pump had given up and was canted over sideways but didn't jump time so I didn't have a choice on the first TDI and the second TDI came along when my first TDI was down due to metal in the IP but there was a 2.slow filling in and I decided not to drive it until I changed the belt.

Have you pulled the cam yet? I'm anxious to know the carnage or lack of

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Wow! Well that was lucky in a way. Wish my backup vehicle was another TDI then i probably wouldn't be in this situation if it was. Maybe one day haha

I haven't pulled it yet but hopefully Sunday ill get around to it. Yeah I am anxious myself to see what it looks like. I might as well get some entertainment out of the carnage since the damage is already done. Hopefully its something interesting to look at with minimal damage to my wallet. ill try to post some pics.

Craigslist, search it every few days...I missed a 400 dollar 5 speed that had snapped a belt...might have been 375 but I was a day late, when I called him there was a guy on his way to pick it up

The 2000 I scored with 297k miles for 1600 with a split boost hose causing a CEL and corroded 180 relay, had these in my pile and aside from normal maintenance and a front end refresh I haven't done anything to it...and the trans shifted like it had rocks in it...I was nervous but some fresh gear 300 and it's like a fresh baked cake. I want to add a SMF and I have one but it's for the beetle TDI that I traded the 2.slow for...that'll be another thread in a few weeks

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Finally got to work on the car today and sure enough it ripped a decent section of teeth out of belt where it was around the crank. I also inspected the lifters and found that they had a spiderweb of hairline cracks on top of two of the lifters and a decent little bulge in one of them. i guess i didn't really know what to look for when i inspected them the first time because they are obviously cracked. i can't for the life of me figure out how to upload my pictures of this but would like to if you guys have any suggestions on how to do that.

The damage to the wallet will be considerable (just in parts) and worse if you have to pay someone to do the work.

The head has to come off; best option is to send it to Franko6 and have him rework it. Don't be tempted to buy a chineesium one (especially not from the various places found through fleabay!) unless you want a destroyed engine instead of a damaged one.

Measure piston protrusion when the head's off before you send the head out and make sure they're all equal (and you don't have more-serious problems), but odds are good you're ok there thus far. Do check the condition of the bores and piston tops of course since before you spend the money on the head is the time to find out if you've got other issues the potentially condemn the engine from a cost/benefit perspective. You want the piston protrusion to know which is the proper head gasket for re-install (check how many holes the original one has, its range should match the protrusion you measure.)

You're not the first person to have this happen and you won't be the last.

Likely those are the only Valve to Piston contact.

It's fairly easy to do the photos.

Click on Photos at the top of this page...., then, Log-in using the same password.

Then, either click on My Albums or Upload photos... prolly since you have no Albums, go with Upload Photos.

Once you are in the Upload Photos, on the bottom left, click on the box, Select Files to Upload. From there, you'll need to look for your photo source (chip most likely from a camera or somewhere you've down loaded them from the camera or phone). Once you find the pic you want to upload, click on it. Once it loads, click to Submit. You should provide a simple brief description of the photo. In the submitting process, you might want to categorize them by Album name.

Now, they are in your Photo Album(s) in the TDI Club. From there, you can click on a pic and scroll down to the bottom and see a green Icon to the right. Click on the Icon and that will display two options. Right click on the bottom option and then copy and paste in your Thread. Of course, you'll need to TDI Club pages open in your browser as you do this.

And, if you get lost in my instructions .... try this link > http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=286691

Sort of as suspected (post #12). Assume the tensioner failed?
Time to get Franko6 in your contact list.

I've done 2 of these cars with a salvage yard head for less than 100 bux for the head cam and everything...that's not including the head gasket or timing belt kit, that's just the head, now I was fortunate in that the heads were pristine as in perfect lifters and not a belt break car but that's just me...

From what I've read Frank is second to none but if you're on a tight budget and need the car back up quickly and can locate a used head for cheap that's what I'd do/have done with great results

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These are the best pics i could get of all of my findings. The lifter to the left was considerably worse and that came from the#2 cyl.

Uh, yep.

Nice work tracking down the damage, removing any guesswork.
If there is no piston or connecting rod damage, you can refresh the head (Fronko6) and be back in bidness, if you got lower end damage as well, you might consider replacement engine.

jettawreck said:

Sort of as suspected (post #12). Assume the tensioner failed?
Time to get Franko6 in your contact list.

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Yeah you called it in post 12 for sure. Thank you and ill take that option into consideration.

WildChild80 said:

I've done 2 of these cars with a salvage yard head for less than 100 bux for the head cam and everything...that's not including the head gasket or timing belt kit, that's just the head, now I was fortunate in that the heads were pristine as in perfect lifters and not a belt break car but that's just me...

From what I've read Frank is second to none but if you're on a tight budget and need the car back up quickly and can locate a used head for cheap that's what I'd do/have done with great results

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Sounds like a good option as well.

BobnOH said:

Nice work tracking down the damage, removing any guesswork.
If there is no piston or connecting rod damage, you can refresh the head (Fronko6) and be back in bidness, if you got lower end damage as well, you might consider replacement engine.

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Thank you! yeah thats my next step. Before i start throwing money at this thing i don't want to find out it was all for nothing if it threw a rod or something. i doubt it did but just in case.

Does anyone have a guesstimate on the cost of a refurbished head, gaskets, belt and all of the components required for this job. i would attempt doing it myself.

I don't have the numbers close by but if I remember, it was around a grand or 1100 all in, with full head service, cam, lifters, valves, guides, gaskets and shipping

If you go that route you'll never have to worry about the head for a long time but at that point you're committed, if I had the coin I'd send all 3 of my heads to Frank but until I find employment I'm rubbing 2 nickles together.

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After measuring the piston protrusion above the block height to make sure they are all still the same, and I suspect they will be, the cost will vary a bit depending on how much needs/doesn't need to be done to the head as far as parts/labor.
When Franko6 did the project 2003 for me back in 2009 was about $600 for parts/labor on the head. I also bought from him the deluxe TB kit ($300), the head install parts kit (head bolts, head/intake/exhaust gaskets, misc $90) and inbound/outbound shipping ($50). Everything I needed was included in the box, even coolant, so I didn't have to order anything else. My head work, head install and TB kit was about $1000 shipped both ways. I also had new Bosio nozzles installed so I had an extra $330 involved not related to the head work. I'm sure prices have changed a bit, the only way to find out is call. It is always a pleasant/learning conversation with Frank.
Looking at the old invoice, I had 2 bad exhaust valves and one intake valve replaced along with the lifter set and the cam.

Awesome once i get it all torn down and see what it looks like ill probably contact Frank06. Better to just spend the extra money for peace of mind.