Another ALH Question

bigkahuna360 · Jul 19, 2018

I've done a good amount of reading, made my own thread and took recommendations for my goals, and was just told that by a well-respected guru that my build path is all over the place. All parts have been purchased already. My goal was around 175HP with a higher focus on torque than horsepower. This car is a daily so it won't be beaten up at the track and it will occasionally see long road trips.

DLC1019 Stage 3 flow (Purchased from and tested by DBW) I was told there were many issues involving DBW and melted pistons, but these have been doing just fine for me.
PD150 Intake - Forgotten to mention to him.
FMIC - Planned once I get the car back from the shop.
GTD1752 - Already converted and adapted for my ALH.
ARP Head Studs
11mm Fuel Pump
SBC Stage 3 Endurance w/ 14lb SMF - For future proofing and longevity.
Stock Pistons - I read that the stock pistons were good till about 200HP so I didn't have any plans to change them out just yet.
Colt Cam Stage 3
.658 5th Gear
Peloquin LSD

BobnOH · Jul 19, 2018

Yea it's all over the place, so what.
I can't comment on that specific group of parts. Not sure the intake and IC is necessary.
Others may comment, read over at the Power Enhancement forum for ideas.

bigkahuna360 · Jul 19, 2018

BobnOH said:
Yea it's all over the place, so what.
I can't comment on that specific group of parts. Not sure the intake and IC is necessary.
Others may comment, read over at the Power Enhancement forum for ideas.

Well, actually the ALH intake had an unfortunate accident with extreme heat while attempting to be cleaned. *Through no fault of my own as this was attempted without my knowledge.*

I figured since my car has had overheating issues in the past when the temperature was really high, an FMIC would be a good idea.

flee · Jul 19, 2018

bigkahuna360 said:
Well, actually the ALH intake had an unfortunate accident with extreme heat while attempting to be cleaned. *Through no fault of my own as this was attempted without my knowledge.*
I figured since my car has had overheating issues in the past when the temperature was really high, an FMIC would be a good idea.

Well really, a higher intake charge temp would reduce power and thus do less to
heat the coolant, etc.

Curious Chris · Jul 19, 2018

Well I did a test for Jeff Rocketchip when he was developing RC2: 2000-5000 15 second run monitoring fuel and air temp: the stock intercooler heat soaked after 6 seconds and at 15 seconds my fueling had dropped from 52mg to 35 mg.

I put on a large FMIC (thinking of selling) and at a Dyno Day my car made 20 hp more than an engine with identical upgrades except no FMIC.

bigkahuna360 · Jul 19, 2018

That settles that then. Any recommendations for an FMIC? I know I could find one that'll fit, but finding the right one is key and I don't know good brands from the bad.

flee · Jul 20, 2018

I guess my point was that putting on a FMIC won't reduce overheating issues.

BobnOH · Jul 20, 2018

Yes, that's right, the overheating is likely the cooling system.
Chris's post was very informative. The older I get the more I learn just how much I don't know. Always read the IC system was good for all but the most extreme upgrade path.

[486] · Jul 20, 2018

bigkahuna360 said:
with a higher focus on torque than horsepower.

cut the pistons while the head's off
deck the block and the head

torque is cylinder pressure, and that's what makes questionable head gaskets leak

bigkahuna360 · Jul 20, 2018

flee said:
I guess my point was that putting on a FMIC won't reduce overheating issues.

Oh, my bad, I misunderstood you. What else could cause overheating then? It hasn't happened since that trip.

EDIT: Don't think I was ignoring you two, I started replying to flee then got called away.

486, once I have the money to tear down the engine, that's definitely the plan. I just didn't want to start to do one thing and then tear it down multiple times. Rosten rods are in the future and I don't plan on beating on it hard until then.

BobnOH · Jul 20, 2018

O.K., the car is a daily driver. The overheating is most likely caused by deficient cooling system. Anything from blocked radiator to wrong coolant to many other things related to that system.

I would suggest getting the car 100% squared away before the upgrades. Upgrades will more likely exaggerate issues versus solving them.

bigkahuna360 · Jul 20, 2018

BobnOH said:
O.K., the car is a daily driver. The overheating is most likely caused by deficient cooling system. Anything from blocked radiator to wrong coolant to many other things related to that system.

I would suggest getting the car 100% squared away before the upgrades. Upgrades will more likely exaggerate issues versus solving them.

I 50/50 with G12. Did a complete flush with a new flange and thermostat after said trip.

Just to be clear, the intake manifold itself had an accident when it was off that ended up with it melting. The car had a multistate trip earlier that year and during that trip, the car began to overheat while it was 96° out. I figured the SMIC couldn't diffuse the heat fast enough on that trip and was constantly heat soaking.

BobnOH · Jul 20, 2018

I don't know that your diagnosis guess is not right on the money, it just seems unusual/extreme. Running above 90 mph in 96° heat for extended periods could cause that senario I guess.
Well the coolant is fine, now for the 10 or so other things in that system.
I've always had a tendency to focus on the simple explanation, usually but not always works.

bigkahuna360 · Jul 20, 2018

BobnOH said:
I don't know that your diagnosis guess is not right on the money, it just seems unusual/extreme. Running above 90 mph in 96° heat for extended periods could cause that senario I guess.
Well the coolant is fine, now for the 10 or so other things in that system.
I've always had a tendency to focus on the simple explanation, usually but not always works.

I had a couple other reasons for doing a full flush. Seemed to do the trick though. Always better to start with the simple things first rather than work on a worst case scenario everytime. Saves a lot of "Doh!" Moments later on haha.

flee · Jul 20, 2018

I would not expect a 96 deg ambient air temperature to cause any overheating in
a TDI that didn't have an underlying cooling system or head gasket problem.
The IC is also able to handle a normal driving scenario, i.e. interstate cruising.
It sounds like you want to upgrade your SMIC to something racier looking.

bigkahuna360 · Jul 21, 2018

flee said:
I would not expect a 96 deg ambient air temperature to cause any overheating in
a TDI that didn't have an underlying cooling system or head gasket problem.
The IC is also able to handle a normal driving scenario, i.e. interstate cruising.
It sounds like you want to upgrade your SMIC to something racier looking.

What else would cause overheating?

I mean, an FMIC does look nice with the supporting hardware, but the main point of getting one would be to increase the surface area for cooling. I'd rather do something right once than have to do it later under worse circumstances.

[486] · Jul 21, 2018

plastic water pump impeller and thermostat troubles
if the rad and fans are good

ETA: these have real good 'steam' venting from the head, so HG issues need to be blowing coolant out the relief before they cause trouble

bigkahuna360 · Jul 21, 2018

[486] said:
plastic water pump impeller and thermostat troubles
if the rad and fans are good

ETA: these have real good 'steam' venting from the head, so HG issues need to be blowing coolant out the relief before they cause trouble

Fans are good, hepu metal impeller, and brand new thermostat.

Can you elaborate on that second bit?

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 21, 2018

Intercooling and overheating coolant are unrelated. If your car is overheating in 96 degree weather there's something wrong with the cooling system. Fans dead, fan control module not working, fuse box on the top of the battery corroded, radiator flow plugged, water pump broken...lots of possible reasons. I'd look at fans and water pump first. TDIs run very cool. It's unusual for the fans to run at all when not using the A/C.

Regarding the build, I don't think it's all over the place. FMIC will help but isn't essential, you may find an upgraded side mount is a better option for a daily driver. If you want to go with a front mount find one with the inlet and exit on the same side. Much easier to run plumbing. Otherwise you'll be faced with moving the battery and horns, most likely.

In my experience talking with tuners 1019s are a bit of a wild card. It seems that not a lot of people know exactly how much fuel they flow. I'd keep that in mind when having the car tuned. Stock pistons should be fine, but you're reaching the limit of the stock rods. You can run 24 PSI boost with stock rods without bending them (probably) but if you're fueling really heavily they may bend anyway.

The sweet spot for my car with the 17/22 was 11mm pump, PP520s, PD150 airbox, intake to turbo, and intake manifold, lift pump, upgraded SMIC, 2.5" exhaust, and RC4+. I ran RC6 with PP502s for years and it was a beast, (185/320 on a very conservative dyno) but also bent all the rods and destroyed the valve guides. But it took a while, approx 120K miles. So I have no complaints.

bigkahuna360 · Jul 21, 2018

IndigoBlueWagon said:
Intercooling and overheating coolant are unrelated. If your car is overheating in 96 degree weather there's something wrong with the cooling system. Fans dead, fan control module not working, fuse box on the top of the battery corroded, radiator flow plugged, water pump broken...lots of possible reasons. I'd look at fans and water pump first. TDIs run very cool. It's unusual for the fans to run at all when not using the A/C.

Regarding the build, I don't think it's all over the place. FMIC will help but isn't essential, you may find an upgraded side mount is a better option for a daily driver. If you want to go with a front mount find one with the inlet and exit on the same side. Much easier to run plumbing. Otherwise you'll be faced with moving the battery and horns, most likely.

In my experience talking with tuners 1019s are a bit of a wild card. It seems that not a lot of people know exactly how much fuel they flow. I'd keep that in mind when having the car tuned. Stock pistons should be fine, but you're reaching the limit of the stock rods. You can run 24 PSI boost with stock rods without bending them (probably) but if you're fueling really heavily they may bend anyway.

The sweet spot for my car with the 17/22 was 11mm pump, PP520s, PD150 airbox, intake to turbo, and intake manifold, lift pump, upgraded SMIC, 2.5" exhaust, and RC4+. I ran RC6 with PP502s for years and it was a beast, (185/320 on a very conservative dyno) but also bent all the rods and destroyed the valve guides. But it took a while, approx 120K miles. So I have no complaints.

I'll give the cooling system another check once it's back now that I know what to check. Most of those should be fine though.

Is an upgraded SMIC really that much better? I figured it couldn't be too terribly much compared to extra surface area of a quality FMIC. I'm really interested to hear about this.

I'm going to have my 1019's looked at for flow equality as that was highly stressed, but I can't think they're too off considering the performance and efficiency I'd been getting from them. I was running my VNT15 at 20PSI with it sometimes spiking to 21-22 so I'll definitely be saving hardcore towards engine internals. Are there any better than rosten rods? I haven't really seen any mention of competitors.

Judging by your experience, once I get any issues sorted out, my car should be fine as a daily as I don't like to beat on my cars too much until I finish the engine.

I think I'll hunt down a nice ALH wagon, lightly modify it, and make that my new daily. Then I'll start really dumping money into the Jetta and transfer over parts into the wagon as they're replaced.

[486] · Jul 21, 2018

bigkahuna360 said:
Can you elaborate on that second bit?

head gasket issues airlock the cooling system on crappily vented engines like GM, chrysler and nissan
air in the wrong places, no coolant flow

alh has a decent sized steam line right from the very top of the head that stays higher than coolant level all the way to the res, HG farts a little and it only blows combustion gasses and a little vapor out the radiator cap's pressure regulator

IndigoBlueWagon · Jul 22, 2018

FMIC is better than a larger SMIC but install can be challenging, and if you don't pick the right intercooler and plumbing you can get turbo lag.

Integrated also makes good rods for ALHs, less expensive than Rostens. And 20 PSI on stock internals is fine.

BTW, I forgot to mention, ditch the 14lb flywheel. You'll be much happier with a 22 lb stock weight wheel. Smoother, easier to drive, and no downside in performance.

If you're serious about a wagon here's a good one: https://boston.craigslist.org/gbs/cto/d/2003-volkwagen-jetta-wagon-tdi/6649577522.html

Owner is a club member, takes excellent care of his cars, it's mildly and tastefully modified. I'd be interested, but I already have a wagon.

eddieleephd · Jul 22, 2018

The increase in area of the larger intercooler will cause it to take longer to build pressure causing increased turbo lag.

I concur that you have a cooling system issue.
Could simply be a faulty temp sensor that gave a high reading.

I would change the thermostat, temp gage sensor and both engine temp sensors before attempting anything else to solve a cooling issue.
A coolant flush can never hurt either

Sent from my Armor_2 using Tapatalk

flee · Jul 22, 2018

bigkahuna360 said:
Fans are good, hepu metal impeller, and brand new thermostat.
Can you elaborate on that second bit?

If the thermostat isn't OEM, get one.

[486] · Jul 22, 2018

eddieleephd said:
The increase in area of the larger intercooler will cause it to take longer to build pressure causing increased turbo lag.

The increase in atmospheric pressure airflow through the larger intercooler and piping will help mitigate boost lag.

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