Timing belt fun

GardRail · Jul 17, 2011

Managed to get to the point in the timingbelt how-to where the valve cover is to be removed and discovered that the previous owner may have cranked down two of the bolts way too **** tight. What would be the best tool to try and remove stripped out alan bolts? Would an Irwin bolt-out be more reliable than beating the thing with a cold chisel?

I've removed the intake again to give myself a bit more room...

MrBigTruck · Jul 17, 2011

I bought these sockets
http://www.craftsman.com/shc/s/p_10155_12602_00902496000P?vName=Hand+Tools&cName=Ratchets+%26+Sockets&sName=Sockets&prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=L1
I found the one socket in the set that was a little too small to go over the outside of the head of the valve cover bolts, put an extension on it, and beat it onto the outside of the bolt. The bolt head was soft enough that it actually formed little grooves in it and the socket could grab the head. It may work with a standard 12 pt. socket as well. You'll have to order some new bolts. I always order a bunch just in case I screw one up or if nothing else you'll have some for next time. Every time I take off that valve cover, I put in new bolts. They're 85¢. Order 10 or so.
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=29_74&products_id=936

flatlanded · Jul 18, 2011

Boltouts work great. You might have to remove the intake to gain access to the back ones if they are (and they usually are) the ones in question.

scurvy · Jul 18, 2011

Yup, Craftsman or Irwin bolt-outs are where it's at. Added a set to my TB tools based on the last one I had to do. Pick the one that fits snugly, tap it on with a ball-peen hammer and insert a 3/8" socket & extension to easily remove the bolt. And put a tiny, tiny bit of anti-seize on the new bolts when you put them in.

GardRail · Jul 18, 2011

scurvy said:
Yup, Craftsman or Irwin bolt-outs are where it's at. Added a set to my TB tools based on the last one I had to do. Pick the one that fits snugly, tap it on with a ball-peen hammer and insert a 3/8" socket & extension to easily remove the bolt. And put a tiny, tiny bit of anti-seize on the new bolts when you put them in.

That was exactly what i was going to ask - which brands / type. I'm going to see if I cant run out to Sears to get a set of bolt-outs. I've seen anti-seize used on here from time to time - what brand does everyone typically use?

scurvy · Jul 18, 2011

I've used Permatex regular, nuclear-grade nickel-based & marine-grade copper anti-seize. All of them have worked well, and should, as this isn't a terribly demanding application. Just be sure you only put the tiniest, thinnest dab on the bolts, roll in into the threads with your finger and be certain your hex socket is firmly seated in the head before tightening.

runonbeer · Jul 18, 2011

Torque spec is 7 ft.lbs. (~84in.lbs)

jasonTDI · Jul 18, 2011

Before you even try to remove them you give them a love tap with a hammer. Breaks them free and they come right out.

scurvy · Jul 18, 2011

jasonTDI said:
Before you even try to remove them you give them a love tap with a hammer. Breaks them free and they come right out.

Good advice on the love tap - also works to make sure your hex drive socket is seated well in the head. Sometimes it also helps to tighten the bolt slightly first before removing it.

GardRail · Jul 18, 2011

awesome advice!

I def plan on torqing the bolts down to 7ftlbs when I complete the job - I'm wondering if someone followed the gudntight method with a longer ratchet.

Powder Hound · Jul 18, 2011

The bolt out set is a really good idea. The other place you will need it is when you go to remove the harmonic balancer. I've only done 8 TB replacements, but I have not done one yet that didn't need the bolt outs on 1 or 2 of the 4 in the balancer.

GardRail · Jul 18, 2011

Powder Hound said:
The bolt out set is a really good idea. The other place you will need it is when you go to remove the harmonic balancer. I've only done 8 TB replacements, but I have not done one yet that didn't need the bolt outs on 1 or 2 of the 4 in the balancer.

I look forward to having all sorts of foul language emenating from the garage. I probably should wait until the kids go to sleep before I start in on the balancer.

GardRail · Jul 18, 2011

I just got back from Sears and bought the cheapest set of bolt-outs I could find. The valve cover bolt took a #4, and after tapping it on with a hammer, the bolts came out like someone lit a fire under their asses!

Bolt-outs are right up there with helicoils in my book. whoever came up with the design for both of them should be nominated for some sorta award!

jasonTDI · Jul 18, 2011

Huh.....The HB bolts. Only need the bolt out on one out of 20 cars...MAC allens help. Quality ones. Also use a LONG thin rachet that has some flex. It snaps them loose.

runonbeer · Jul 19, 2011

I use an impact. Rarely do I round them out.

oilhammer · Jul 19, 2011

Good tools are far less likely to round out these Allen bolts. A tap with a hammer, and slightly tightening them before loosening generally works. But they do often get WAY overtorqued by people, and those people are usually using crappy tools to boot, so the hex is already wallered out

.

Guess that is why I have to keep drawers full of these bolts on hand.

The Irwin-brand over-the-top extractors work well if all else fails.

GardRail · Jul 19, 2011

is TDC really TDC in these pics?

cam locked -

lobes up

flywheel - ***? where's the A

from what i saw, the -A- mark that occurs before the "bump" is there, but it is out of the picture. one thing about the history on this is that the timing belt broke on the car before I bought it at ~ 93k. is it possible that the flywheel could be this far out of alignment and not cause any problems?

I did have to wiggle the cam crank back and forth a wee bit to get the metalnerd tool to line up between horizontal and the two mounting holes - could that cause the flywheel to not line up? Should I go another couple of manual turns clockwise to see if the -a- shows up as pictured in the a4 timingbelt pdf file?

davrink · Jul 19, 2011

Just a guess, but may be the timing belt stretched OR you've been VERY lucky with a mark and pray belt job from the previous owner. I freely admit to letting someone else replace my timing belt. Molle Volkswagen did it two years ago , before I was pointed to this site. That was also 62,000 miles ago. Pricey , but they must have done it right.

GardRail · Jul 19, 2011

oh crap - i think i just pewped myself... just to rule out a n00b blindness issue, i'll hand crank it one more time and see if the -a- is just at the edge of the window.

edit: i took my own advice to rule out paranoia and n00bishness... i turned the engine over one more time and visually verified the mark at the bottom of the window. As soon as I saw that line up, the metalnerd tool went right in and locked it in.

whew - time to get some sleep. tomorrow I have to run out and get a 16mm and 18mm socket at Tractor Supply.

dodgediesel · Jul 19, 2011

GardRail said:
I look forward to having all sorts of foul language emenating from the garage. I probably should wait until the kids go to sleep before I start in on the balancer.

I didn't have a problem with the balancer on mine when I replaced the belt about a month ago. The foul language and tool chucking didn't start until I tried to get the turbo pipe back on the housing. Worst job ever. We just couldn't get the spring clamp to seat.

GardRail · Jul 20, 2011

I hope all goes well with this. The instructions are awesome so I figure between that, my camera phone, and this forum I should be good to go so long as I'm careful.

I did notice something though, the serpentine belt tensioner doesn't need a special tool... I just used an open-ended wrench and turned the bolt clockwise to release tension on the belt. It's a shame I'm going to replace the belt - it looks nice enough to eat breakfast off of.

GardRail · Jul 20, 2011

Gaaaa!!!!

damn engine bit my thumb!

seriously though - is there a trick to remove the engine mount? I'm using the jack + 2x6 method under the oil pan. I managed to get the mount out by holding the mount with my left hand, and operating the jack with my right. Thank GOD i was quick, because the jack started to lower the engine down to where the camshaft crank teeth burried themselves in my left thumb (pinned between the mount and the engine).

Thank GOD the only thing I lost was a wee bit of flesh (tore the skin ;-)) and alot of my pride. Does anyone have any good instructions or tips on removing this mount? Would it be easier to use the herm-o-hanger or am I just a n00b making mistakes?

I have pictures if ya'll are interested

No cursing occurred, but I did let out a yell

BobnOH · Jul 20, 2011

GardRail said:
awesome advice!

I def plan on torqing the bolts down to 7ftlbs when I complete the job - I'm wondering if someone followed the gudntight method with a longer ratchet.

probably not, I think they form their own special seal on the back side of the fastener head (far in excess of 7#s). Love tap is what works, great tip

GardRail · Jul 20, 2011

alright - i'm at the point of removing the harmonic balancer bolts but i'm afraid i'm going to do some damage - the only thing holding the engine is the crank shaft metalnerd tool. is there something else I can jam into the works to ensure that as I put more torq on the bolts, I dont snap or screw something up?

rackaracka · Jul 20, 2011

I usually break those loose before I pull the serpentine belt. You can use two socket wrenches. One on the crank bolt(deep socket and breaker bar) as a counterhold tool. The crank bolt is uber tight ad shouldn't budge. Just make sure you don't use an extension on your hex driver or you'll possibly strip the harmonic balancer bolts.

GardRail · Jul 20, 2011

rackaracka said:
I usually break those loose before I pull the serpentine belt. You can use two socket wrenches. One on the crank bolt(deep socket and breaker bar) as a counterhold tool. The crank bolt is uber tight ad shouldn't budge. Just make sure you don't use an extension on your hex driver or you'll possibly strip the harmonic balancer bolts.

drat - the serp was removed; i was planning on doing the serp belt as well and wanted to get it out of the way. Do you have a diagram of what you're talking about? i cant seem to picture it.

oh well - i reinstalled the serp - it was good practice ;-)

now on to the promised land of stripped bolts and cursing!

Antsrcool · Jul 20, 2011

im trying to figure out why you took the valve cover off if you had the cam lock that doesnt require you to?

GardRail · Jul 20, 2011

That's a good question that I dont have a good answer for. I'm following the guide, but purchased the metalnerd tool set from idparts.com

this is great fun btw

stripped a bolt and the bolt-out cant get a grip. grrr

rackaracka · Jul 20, 2011

If you have a quality set of 12 pt metric sockets, you can hammer (I think its a 12MM) onto the bolt head. works as well if not better than a bolt out.

You didn't have to re-install the serp, but with that on you can use it as an aid to help hold back the damper to brake the bolts loose. Looks like more than one of those damper bolts is comprimised... Good luck, you can do it!

GardRail · Jul 20, 2011

rackaracka said:
If you have a quality set of 12 pt metric sockets, you can hammer (I think its a 12MM) onto the bolt head. works as well if not better than a bolt out.

You didn't have to re-install the serp, but with that on you can use it as an aid to help hold back the damper to brake the bolts loose. Looks like more than one of those damper bolts is compromised... Good luck, you can do it!

Actually all three of the other ones came right out - i think that was a little pblaster sheen that makes the top one look a bit more worn. I believe I ordered replacement bolts for that from idparts - if not, I'm gonna place another order.

The serp belt wasn't a big deal to put it back in; besides I'm chocking it up as good experience. Not only that, but knowing how tight that belt is, I knew it would help me break the bolts free. I was hoping that all of them would come out, but three outta four aint all that bad I suppose.

idparts is like potato chips; you just cant stop with one order...

Timing belt fun

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Good Ol' Boy

Veteran Member

Good Ol' Boy

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number

Good Ol' Boy

Veteran Member

Top Post Dawg

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

not-a-mechanic

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Vendor

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member