best gear to park on a steep driveway? car rolled while in 1st

fouillard13

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Oct 8, 2012
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Pincher Creek, AB
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03 Jetta TDI Standard
ok, we got the steepest (and most annoying) driveway in town. I HATE it.


and my e brake isnt the strongest (how can I tighten it?) so I dont think it was fully engaged and biting as hard as I could/should. it seems to come and go... some days its strong, some days its not and feels like nothing.



I parked on the driveway (did not back in) and put the car in 1st gear.... my buddies caught it red handed slowly rolling downwards and almost onto the road, as I have too before.



why is this? I thought 1st gear and the engine compression would be strong enough to stop it but I guess not. do I got low compression?



would it be better to leave it in reverse maybe for a better gear ratio than 1st?



im sure if my e brake was holding solidly it would of helped, but ive had it when I backed a trailer and car onto the driveway with the e brake working fine, and loaded up a snowmobile onto the trailer, and while loading, the car would slowly roll downwards as it rotated the motor/piston.
 

fouillard13

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Pincher Creek, AB
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03 Jetta TDI Standard
is this the video for the e brake on my 2004 jetta?

I also bought a 2003 jetta TDI and it is 100% identical, EXCEPT im missing the cup holder behind the shifter, the cup holder where the rear ashtray is. and the 03 also has the ESP button on the dash which the 04 doesnt have. why is this? im gonna miss my cup holder....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShYUBikhZLo
 

STDOUBT

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Portland, effing Oregon
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dos jettas
Well, to tighten you have to remove part of the console, and there's an adjustment bolt that carries the cables to the rear calipers from there to under the car. There are a billion videos on youtube for it.
You might consider replacing the whole thing with the upgraded beefier cables...I know idparts has them, I'm sure many suppliers do. The original tends to actually collect water and rust out. My driveway is only about 11 degrees downward from the street. I back in, pull it for 6 clicks, let it rest then put it in 1st...just waiting for it to fail. Nice to know it might fail slowly lol.

Other than that I don't know the "best gear", I thought if the parking brake failed, the car would "rest" on whatever gear it was left in.
 
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fouillard13

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Pincher Creek, AB
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03 Jetta TDI Standard
I found a youtube video but not sure if its the same as my 04. I will check tomorrow. I will also check how steep the driveway actually is so we can compare.
 

STDOUBT

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dos jettas
MK4 is MK4 I doubt there is significant diff between an '03 and an '04.
EDIT: Oh by the way ESP is freaking awesome. You scored on that '03 mang.
 
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Tdijarhead

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Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
Reverse is the strongest gear. My driveway circles around and where we park is flat, the lower part of the circle is a grade and sometimes when company comes we end up parking there. Try leaving it in reverse instead of first.

The center console is pretty much all the same from 99-05. Don’t adjust the cables so tight that the ebrake is dragging.
 

Mongler98

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COLORADO (SE of Denver)
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98 Jetta TDI AHU 1.9L (944 TDI swap in progress) I moved so now i got nothing but an AHU in a garage on a pallet.
Have you ever push started a manual? You cant start it in anything other than rev, 1st, or 2nd. You can try other gears like 5th, but the reality is, you might have a leaking valve or valves on your head, possible egged out block or end of life rings. The compression and gear reduction will stop the car from rolling. Worth to do a compression test and or leak down test.
But a cheater way to stop the car, nail a piece of 2x4 into the driveway. Drive over it to park and drive over it to leave, use as a wheel chuck.
 

mannytranny

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02 Jetta (sold, such a great car) '16 Touareg
Compression will leak, its by no means an airtight chamber.
 

jmodge

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Carry a wheel chock where your missing cup holder is. 4x4 or 6x6 with a pocket in the end that fits your favorite cup. Kill two birds with one board
 

noob_tl

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Central Indiana
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2003 NB
Compression will leak, its by no means an airtight chamber.
Exactly. The rings do not seal perfectly against the piston and cylinder, and there is that gap in them...

I would use 1st or reverse, depending on which end of the car is pointing down. I'd prefer the engine to turn forward if the car rolled.

Fix or adjust the parking brake if necessary, but keep a chock handy anyway. At least the tranny and parking brake will buy you enough time to get out and place the chock.

Even with an automatic, steep driveways can be a problem. They may not roll, but shifting out of park with a lot of force on the parking pawl isn't good for it.
 

johnboy00

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Mongler98

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Parents are from San Francisco, never had a problem parking in 1st gear on crazy hills with no ebrake. Still say something isn't right with being able to roll in 1st gear. Never once heard of this happening. Maybe I'm wrong but I'd think the hill would have to be undrivably steep for this to happen.
 

STDOUBT

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Portland, effing Oregon
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dos jettas
Still say something isn't right with being able to roll in 1st gear.

Agreed, and here's a thought, and also a revelation of my lack of knowledge. My wife has been driving stick since the get go, and she believes that if you shut off the car and park, then simply move the shifter into position (1st gear) without first depressing the clutch pedal, that the car is in gear. I believe she's wrong, but I don't know for sure.:eek:
Could it be that fouillard13 is under the same impression, and he was never really "in gear" to begin with?
 

ZippyNH

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Apr 22, 2015
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Southern NH
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2015 JETTA TDI SE
Simply put, buy a set of chocks...like we use on an airplane.
Rubber is best, just use one, AND stick it behind a tire...
Reason, you clutch can SLIP when worn...
Or simply fix the emergency brake...
 
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AndyBees

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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Really? Kick-start a TDI 1st, 2nd.. Wow. If I kicked started a TDI in the lower gears I'd be at the chiropractor everyday for a week letting him get the kinks out of my neck.

OP, if your E-brake handle is raising up much higher then 45 degrees, it's likely the outer part of the cable has collapsed like an accordion at or near where they connect to the tubes on the body............ assuming the pads are not down to the metal, but, then, the E-brake should hold. It takes about 45 minutes per side to remove and install a new E-brake cable set.

Yeah, 1st or reverse should hold .... but, as suggested, try reverse.
 

KLXD

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Lompoc, CA
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'98, '2 Jettas
Yeah, fix the brakes. They should do the job. Putting it in gear is supposed to be the backup.

Some people just yank on the handle till it "stops" rather than pull on it until the car doesn't roll. On a steep hill you have to pull it hard even with properly functioning brakes. It isn't the same as putting it in Park where you're simply putting it in set position.

The point is to stop the vehicle from rolling, not to just yank on the handle.

Still say something isn't right with being able to roll in 1st gear.

Agreed, and here's a thought, and also a revelation of my lack of knowledge. My wife has been driving stick since the get go, and she believes that if you shut off the car and park, then simply move the shifter into position (1st gear) without first depressing the clutch pedal, that the car is in gear. I believe she's wrong, but I don't know for sure.:eek:
Could it be that fouillard13 is under the same impression, and he was never really "in gear" to begin with?
Using the clutch or not with the engine off when you put it in gear while parking doesn't matter. If it goes into gear it's in gear. Might be easier with the clutch since nothing's turning in the gearbox.
 
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jokila

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Houston, Texas
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2003 Jetta GLS, Manual
Still say something isn't right with being able to roll in 1st gear.

Agreed, and here's a thought, and also a revelation of my lack of knowledge. My wife has been driving stick since the get go, and she believes that if you shut off the car and park, then simply move the shifter into position (1st gear) without first depressing the clutch pedal, that the car is in gear. I believe she's wrong, but I don't know for sure.:eek:
Could it be that fouillard13 is under the same impression, and he was never really "in gear" to begin with?
You are wrong about the engine off not in gear theory.
 

BamaB4S

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Oct 28, 2011
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AL
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1996 Passat
Could be that you have issues with both a slipping clutch and stretched/wornout E-Brake cables.
 

fouillard13

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Oct 8, 2012
Location
Pincher Creek, AB
TDI
03 Jetta TDI Standard
clutch is brand new, 10,000km on it.

rear brake pads are brand new, 2000 km on them. when I did rear brakes... I had no e brake for a few days, then it came back and was strong, now its randomly gone again.

e brand is non existent right now, motor is old and worn out and probably lower compression than usual, and driveway is super steep. so im sure those all contribute to it.


I do the same thing as STDOUBTs wife sometimes... kill the car in neutral. THEN, afterwards I pop it into first while its not running ...pretty sure its still in gear regardless if its shifted into 1st with the engine running or not. I also dont press the clutch when the cars off. most of the time I pull into the driveway in 1st, press the clutch in, and kill the motor. leaving the motor turn off while in 1st.





this car is on its way out... I just bought a newer, fresher, better TDI so trying to keep the money into this dead horse to a minimum. didnt have time to adjust the nut today but thats tomorrows task for sure. I will report back with an update.



that spring mod in post 12 in interesting. I may have to look into that too. tires need to come off for that one eh?

thanks for all the tips and advice guys. appreciate it.
 
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mrfiat

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Los Ranchos, NM
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2003 Jetta TDI (Reflex Silver) , 2003 Jetta TDI Wagon (Black)
You can install the springs on the rear calipers without removing the wheels. Just jack it up and crawl under there and install the springs.
 

Wilkins

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Aug 19, 2005
Location
British Columbia
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05 Jetta Wagon 5sp, 10 Sportwagen 6MT
Most likely:
A your handbrake cables on at least one side are rusted and stiff.
B the parking brake mechanism is stiff from either lack of use (because the cable is rusted and not working right) or the seal is gone and the shaft has corroded.

Both or all of these are absolutely normal for a 15 year old Mk IV. I’m on my third set of brake cables and my left caliper seal is bad. The car has to be parked in my driveway (which looks to me to be steeper than the pictures you have posted of yours. Flatlander :rolleyes:) with the wheels chocked. I’ve had the car roll in 2nd but never in 1st. Still don’t trust it to stay in place all day, cylinders do leak down.

If the handbrake isn’t working then your rear brakes aren’t adjusting and the pedal travel will increase until eventually you will not have brakes or you will bugger the master cylinder so it is pretty important to keep them in good repair. Replacing brake cables isn’t hard, biggest PITA is getting the console up to get to the back of the lever without breaking any plastic. You don’t have to remove the wheels but do have to jack up, use jack stands and crawl under the back of the car. Minimal tools, just a small wrench and a big flat blade screwdriver to lever with.

Funny story: my neighbor has an even steeper driveway on which he parks his 3/4 ton work van. A few winters ago we had some freezing rain and one night he couldn’t keep his van in the driveway. He’d park it, set the brake/put it in park and go in the house and a little while later the van would slide down into the street with the rear wheels locked. It’s a quiet street and the next passerby would have to tell him his van was blocking the street and he’d move it back to the driveway. He didn’t want to believe what was happening so the van slid down three times before he decided to park in the street.
 

AndyBees

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Southeast Kentucky
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Silver 2003 Jetta TDI, Silver 2000 Jetta TDI (sold), '84 Vanagon with '02 ALH engine
Here are four examples of bad brake cables and/or E-brake in general.

1. MK1 Rabbit diesel - dude goes out and starts his car and then remembers he left something in the house. Since it was winter and very cold out, he left the engine running. He gets a phone call while in the house. Comes back out and his vehicle is gone..... it rolled down the drive-way, across the county road and through a fence into a pasture field... That was about 20 years ago... very true story.

2. MK4 1998 New Beetle - I worked on this guy's NB. I cannot remember all the details, other than I did advise him it needed new cables. In fact, while he was at my garage, I showed him the accordion collapse as I mentioned above. Well, about six months later, pretty much the same thing happened to him. It rolled down the hill backwards and over a bank into the county road... pretty much trashed it.

3. Vanagon - yours truly,,,, without all the details, I heard this strange noise, turned and looked, at first instant, I never saw anything.. then, I saw my Van rolling across the drive-way down the hill in my son's front yard.......... no damage.

4. Vanagon - Dude had just purchased it and brought it home from inspection and getting title work done. Went in the house to tell wife to come see. They went outside to see and Van was gone ... finally found it over the hill torn all to hell.
 

Tdijarhead

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Lawrenceville PA
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2003 TDI Jetta Daughters Car, 2001 TDI Beetle, Wife’s car, 2005 Golf TDI Mine, all 5 spds
I’ve had my golf slide on ice twice with the hand brake set. Once it slid out of a driveway directly into a major road. Fortunately no one happened to be coming at that point and it was quickly pulled back in the driveway.

No good stories like Andy’s.

I’m planning on a complete rear brake replacement including ebrake cables , tubes and calipers before inspection is due next month. My ebrake is not fully returning to the rest stop. 335k, probably it’s getting tired.
 

ToBiN

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But a cheater way to stop the car, nail a piece of 2x4 into the driveway. Drive over it to park and drive over it to leave, use as a wheel chuck.
I do this with my Cummins, but instead of a 2x4, its a 4x6 for the larger tires, and its not nailed down. :D
 

steve6

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Beaverton, ON
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2003 jetta tdi
Typical caliper issues in the rear with the e-brake assembly, one or both sides is not grabby properly.
 

jimbote

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spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
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reverse has the lowest ratio in the trans, so engine compression has the greatest advantage over driveline rotation... if your parallel parking by a curb turn your wheels full lock so it carves an imaginary arc INTO the curb
 

Ol'Rattler

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PNA
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IDK if has been mentioned, but when you set the parking brake you should push the brake petal down and hold it while you pull up on the E-brake handle.
 

kjclow

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Charlotte, NC
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Jim mentioned turning the wheels when parked on the street. Do the same thing in your drive. Turn the wheels so the car rolls into the yard instead of the street.

had a coworker years ago that had a Ford Aerostar. Those had floor shifters that did not always go into park but you could remove the keys. Anyway, they were sitting down to dinner when the neighbor called wanting them to come get their van. It had rolled out of the garage, across the street, and up into the neighbor's garage. IIRC, it totaled the neighbor's car.
 

fouillard13

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Oct 8, 2012
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Pincher Creek, AB
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03 Jetta TDI Standard
yup. ive had that happen before when I had my truck.. took it in for a driveshaft rebuild, left it in park. didnt chock the wheels. it rolled two houses down the street (we live on the crest of a hill) and it smashed the neighbors 2000 toyota tundra hes had since new and it was mint. hit it so hard it pushed the tundra and skidded all 4 tires into his work truck f150, didnt do any damage though to the ford, but the tundra had a destroyed tailgate and bumper. cost me $2000 and $800 for the driveshaft rebuild. expensive day, another lesson learned the expensive way. im glad the tundra was there or it would have coasted 5 or 6 houses far, all downhill, and probably into someones garage or living room. ouch. thats all I need it to knock a neighbors house down lol.


very good tip about pressing brake when pulling the e brake now. I am going to go tinker with it now.
 
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