NHTSA Update on CR HPFP failure investigation

Niner

duplicate account, banned
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Jun 3, 2011
Someone asked me to get the model number from the new pump. It takes a mirror and you have to read updide down and backward so here is the info on the bottom of the pum taking into account the fore mentioned. I don't know which of this is the model number so here is everything off the bottome of the pump as it appears on the ID tag:

BOSCH 515
0445 010 508
CR/CP4S1/R35/20
03L 130 7755A
09091111
BPY070757
Made in Czech Republic

Great, I wonder why made in Czech Republic instead of Germany like before? Most of us slip a thin cell phone camera down there for a picture of it. Takes a few shots to get what you need, but it's doable.
 

CedarPark68

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 14, 2010
Location
Texas
TDI
2011 Jetta TDI Wagen
Someone asked me to get the model number from the new pump. It takes a mirror and you have to read updide down and backward so here is the info on the bottom of the pum taking into account the fore mentioned. I don't know which of this is the model number so here is everything off the bottome of the pump as it appears on the ID tag:

BOSCH 515
0445 010 508
CR/CP4S1/R35/20
03L 130 7755A
09091111
BPY070757
Made in Czech Republic
Please try and get that picture... I'm sure the board will love it ... another new twist, an HPFP not made in Germany.
It took me at least three different attempts, but I needed up getting a nice picture.
 
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dweisel

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Wheeling, West Virginia
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dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Great, I wonder why made in Czech Republic instead of Germany like before? Most of us slip a thin cell phone camera down there for a picture of it. Takes a few shots to get what you need, but it's doable.
I've seen the ""made in Czech Republic"" label before,but can't remember where???
 

Absolute Diesel

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Good lubricity will not save everyone's pump. It could be that some pumps are failing because of poor lubricity, but it is not the only cause of failure. My pump failed at 17K and I filled with B5 for all but a couple tanks. There are failures in states that mandate b5 statewide.

This is just a bad pump design that can fail for a variety of reasons (notably anything that might cause the piston/roller to become misaligned).
 

Plus 3 Golfer

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ARIZONA
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Und tschüss! 2009 Jetta 12/23/2012
Good lubricity will not save everyone's pump. It could be that some pumps are failing because of poor lubricity, but it is not the only cause of failure. My pump failed at 17K and I filled with B5 for all but a couple tanks. There are failures in states that mandate b5 statewide.
This is just a bad pump design that can fail for a variety of reasons (notably anything that might cause the piston/roller to become misaligned).
What did VW say caused the failure, if anything.

I've said this before, what if one pumps 12 gallons of B5 but there was a quart of gasoline in the 12 gallons pumped in? What's the lubricity of the fuel in the tank? What if only a cup of gasoline is in the tank? So that about 1.7% (1/60) gasoline in the case of one quart in the tank or only 0.4% gas in the tank for one cup. Here's a graph of the fuel sample data VW submitted to NHTSA with respect to poor quality fuel.

Bottom line, even though one uses B5, the lubricity of the fuel pumped may not be what we think it is.:D
 
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Niner

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Joined
Jun 3, 2011
Good lubricity will not save everyone's pump. It could be that some pumps are failing because of poor lubricity, but it is not the only cause of failure. My pump failed at 17K and I filled with B5 for all but a couple tanks. There are failures in states that mandate b5 statewide.
This is just a bad pump design that can fail for a variety of reasons (notably anything that might cause the piston/roller to become misaligned).
Do you drive your TDI from time to time like you stole it? What's the maximum rpm yours saw on a daily or weekly basis when you really got on the pedal hard? Was your Biodiesel out of Texas, and part of the Foster Farm/Unocal chicken fat based agreement?
 

MonsterTDI09

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NoVa/NJ
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2010 Jetta DSG/ up keep on 2009 Jetta DSG 2006 Jetta Pag 2 in North SEA Green
What did VW say caused the failure, if anything.

I've said this before, what if one pumps 12 gallons of B5 but there was a quart of gasoline in the 12 gallons pumped in? What's the lubricity of the fuel in the tank? What if only a cup of gasoline is in the tank? So that about 1.7% (1/60) gasoline in the case of one quart in the tank or only 0.4% gas in the tank for one cup. Here's a graph of the fuel sample data VW submitted to NHTSA with respect to poor quality fuel.

Bottom line, even though one uses B5, the lubricity of the fuel pumped may not be what we think it is.:D

Looks we have problem with gasoline in fuel tank.I wonder how much gasoline is in the storage tank at the fuel station? I would say going to a high voluming station is your best bet to get quality fuel
 

Niner

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Jun 3, 2011
Classic hpfp failure and parts list. There are a good number of DIESEL hpfp failures that have been misfiled as GASOLINE in the NHSTA info.
As far as ''running better than ever'' with the replaced fuel system I also noticed this on my wifes 09 Sedan. Not sure why it felt like that.
It's a non issue, VW issues these parts on a pallet as a "Kit" from Germany, it's so standardized and common, these failures.
 

MOM

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Location
California / Montana usa
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2009 jetta
Is there any way to find out how many of these failures have occurred? Are there statistics available anywhere about multiple hpfp failures per vehicle? I have been reading some online blogs about this failure and I have become concerned by how many owners claim that their tdi has been repaired only to have the failure occur again.
 

1TDI4Me

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Location
Idaho Falls,Idaho
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'01 Jetta (sold, but missed) '12 Jetta TDI 6sp Malone and Rawtech, '13 Golf DSG (SOLD!)
My 'Significant Other' is out of town with one of the kids, which allows me to step from the CRD Jeep and into the '12 Jetta for a week or so. I just love this car and so does the other half. This HPFP business is a massive pain to me. After following this situation for a long time and having great anxiety about it, which is why I bought the 100k mi extended waranty, I've decided to get another one for me.

I called my friend who sells them and told him I want the red one with a stick. I'll pay sticker. Just get in writing that I have a lifetime HPFP warranty. I couldn't care less about the cause of failures at this point. I just want it fixed. I plan to keep the car for hundreds of thousands of miles so chances are as with any mechanical device the pump, with whatever deficiencies, is going to fail. If VW designs a fuel system that needs wholesale replacement... fine. Just don't make it my problem, with the obvious exception of misfueling. If at some interval they choose to replace it preventatively... I'm fine with that.

Alternatively, give me a 100K mi. warranty on the pump. At 100K I'll get a new one and you can warranty that one for 100k mi. I will do it either way.

Waiting for a call back.
 

Charrigan

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I highly doubt just to get a sale they will give you a 100k mile warranty in writing unless vw as a whole gives that on every 09+.


If no "fix" comes out of this and they end up only doing a 100k mile warranty I will probably sell mine just before 100k miles. Many of us are already past or quickly aproaching 100k. I'm at 84k on my 09.
 

kjclow

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2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
My 'Significant Other' is out of town with one of the kids, which allows me to step from the CRD Jeep and into the '12 Jetta for a week or so. I just love this car and so does the other half. This HPFP business is a massive pain to me. After following this situation for a long time and having great anxiety about it, which is why I bought the 100k mi extended waranty, I've decided to get another one for me.

I called my friend who sells them and told him I want the red one with a stick. I'll pay sticker. Just get in writing that I have a lifetime HPFP warranty. I couldn't care less about the cause of failures at this point. I just want it fixed. I plan to keep the car for hundreds of thousands of miles so chances are as with any mechanical device the pump, with whatever deficiencies, is going to fail. If VW designs a fuel system that needs wholesale replacement... fine. Just don't make it my problem, with the obvious exception of misfueling. If at some interval they choose to replace it preventatively... I'm fine with that.

Alternatively, give me a 100K mi. warranty on the pump. At 100K I'll get a new one and you can warranty that one for 100k mi. I will do it either way.

Waiting for a call back.
If VW determines that the HPFP replacement is a standard maintenance item than the 100K warranty won't cover it's failure or replacement. Although I do agree with you that having two tdis is much more fun than watching the spouse drive off in the only one.
 

1TDI4Me

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'01 Jetta (sold, but missed) '12 Jetta TDI 6sp Malone and Rawtech, '13 Golf DSG (SOLD!)
If VW determines that the HPFP replacement is a standard maintenance item than the 100K warranty won't cover it's failure or replacement. Although I do agree with you that having two tdis is much more fun than watching the spouse drive off in the only one.
I guess that's my point to some extent. That would be another silly way to dodge the bullet from a corporate point of view. Standard maintenance item? Fine. Put that 'maintenance' item up front in the sales deal. VW going to stand behind me or not?

I just want a guarantee that it's a very expensive problem that I don't ever have to deal with. Whatever the service life is for a HPFP, whatever the design of the pump or fuel system... I don't want to bother with the anxiety of dealing with the failure and I want to know that I can drive this car for as long as I want without this being the reason to bail out. At 100K I'll buy another pump if that's what it takes, just tell me it's warranteed to last that long and that the replacement part is, too. Alternatively, figure out a fuel system alteration that prevents the entire system from needing to be replaced and I'll just replace a pump if I need to, just like I did at 109k on my ALH. It was $1200 of pain, but not $8-10,000.

I really want another one but feel I'm driving a grenade and wondering if the pin is properly inserted. I don't need to double down on that.

No call from the dealer yet. Maybe have an answer next week.
 

kjclow

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You have to remember that the failure rate is still less than 1%, especially once you remove those that admit to mis-fueling. I know that it's the expense of the failure that has most people on edge but as is often said on here, "Worry less, Drive more"

If you feel confortable buying a second TDI, then do it. If your too worried about the potential of the HPFP failure, then buy something else.
 

ARBY

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Is there any way to find out how many of these failures have occurred? Are there statistics available anywhere about multiple hpfp failures per vehicle? I have been reading some online blogs about this failure and I have become concerned by how many owners claim that their tdi has been repaired only to have the failure occur again.

Hi Mom!! I didn't know you belonged to Fred's!! xo
 

tdi90hp

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I want a guarantee from god that I will live to 90 yrs old.....oh no...i have a grenade in my heart valve.....people die...guess God is not calling....maybe next week.
 

Second Turbo

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Sword of Damocles

kjclow: > You have to remember that the failure rate is still less than 1%, especially once you remove those that admit to mis-fueling. I know that it's the expense of the failure that has most people on edge ...

Perhaps it's not just the looming threat of massive collateral damage, but the helplessness at being unable to take concrete steps that improve the odds with any degree of confidence.

For example, another "criticality one*" component is the timing belt. If it fails, order a new engine. But we don't worry so much about that anymore. VW is now sourcing a part that lasts 150,000 miles. Keep the debris covers in good order. Have the belt inspected at every dealer service. Replace it every 100,000. Don't fret about it (and we don't).
______
* NASA-speak for "no backup - failure terminates mission abruptly", such as SRB O-rings or leading edge RCC.
 

PaulGiz

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Rhode Island
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None any more. My heart couldn't take it.
As this thread gets longer, we drift away from the thing that is most important here. It us not the fact that the HPFP can fail, all compnonts can fail. It is not the frequency of failure -- honestly on the scale of mechanical reliability it isn't all that bad.

It is the fact that the design of the fueling system is such that the failure necessitates its complete replacement, to the tune of $8,000 +.

It is unreasonable to think this is okay, especially for a $26,000 "family" vehicle.

I love my JSW. For well under thirty grand it is a bargain. For $34,000 or $42,000, not so much. I shouldn't have to start an escrow account just to make sure my car can continue to run.

P.

Sent from my Sensation using Tapatalk
 

El Dobro

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Haven't heard of a complete fuel system trashing on the Duramax diesels.
 
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