Suggestion on 2-stroke oil in diesel for a 2003 Jetta TDI?

Hi -

New to this forum and to TDI's. Have a friend who has an older Jetta TDI (95 or so) who told me that it is wise to add some 2-stroke oil to the diesel occassionally - the lubticate the seals. wondered if this is still something suggested in the ALH engine 2003's? I tried to get a sense from some of the other questions here on the forum and it seemed there is some difference of opinion, as well as differences on what 2-stroke and how much to use. What I couldn't tell is if this is for all TDI's, or more important on the older models.

Any suggestions/comments appreciated as I clearly have so much to learn about having my first diesel car

Thanks in advance for thoughts.

Kim

Herm,

Actually I did read that thread and got a bit more confused - especially given I had just read a thread on biodiesel, suggesting it may gum up the fuel injectors or pump. I am on Vancouver Island in western Canada and haven't seen anywhere that sells biodesiel - so don't think I could do what you are doing unless I can find a source somewhere. Certainly not at the regular stations. Wasn't familiar with the various additivies, other than things like TCW3 2-stroke. Should the products listed on the chart you posted be available at most auto parts stores? Do they get added with each tank of diesel? Assuming from your post then that this is 'still' an issue for the newer TDI's as well as the older?

Kim

It is a non-issue. No additives are necessary.

If you insist on using ashless 2-stroke oil, ANY ashless 2-stroke oil should be comparable. You can get that at Canadian Tire. YES, of course, in order to achieve whatever benefit there is, you have to add this to every tank of fuel.

Biodiesel of acceptable quality will not gum up the fuel system.

GoFaster said:

It is a non-issue. No additives are necessary..........

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Please explain.

Since you are up north, it might be wise to use an additive with an anti-gel agent as well. This way you kill two birds with one stone.

There is some advantage to - having upper cylinder lubrication. Like the advantage that bio diesel offers in reduced wear. It can help the seals and of course it is beneficial to the pumps. I use Amsoil Sabre 500 to 1 to help with lubricity. The disadvantage is the emission system. If you use allot of 2 cycle oil you lose some of the benefit of ULSD over LSD, albeit better than LSD. You may in fact reduce your catalytic converter life used in high enough doses to do all the lubricity neccessary to protect to a <=460 wear scar required.

Additives may not be neccessary if your fuel company is giving you a detergent package. The Eurpoeans BLUE diesel is a example of this were adding would maybe unecessary. I have however get generic ULSD that has only the minimum required lubricity, looks like water, crystal clear. So some additives are neccessary for some. Having a good CETANE level has several advantages, VW PD manual states 51 min. Cleaner cold combustion and easier starts. More efficient no load combustion when crusing at a low and constant speed. Having a good additive that will promote piston and injector cleanliness, this is very important over time. If you buy in bulk and have a above ground tank than its important to keep the fuel stable and as well to control microbial growth concerns. I live in Florida so gelling is not a concern, If I did not blend my own fuel I would look to Shell or BP.

POWERSTROKE said:

Please explain.

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Diesel fuel sold in Canada already meets the specifications required by the engine manufacturer (VW). If you use Shell Ultra or Sunoco Gold diesel fuel, it contains an extra additive treatment already.

The original poster lives in Victoria BC, which has a very temperate climate. The use of anti-gel additives is certainly not necessary there.

The potential impact on the catalytic converter of anything you add to the fuel must not be neglected.

Regarding the cetane situation, I've tried a bottle of Amsoil cetane booster. The result was ... absolutely nothing that I could tell. In any case, the additive beng asked about by the original poster is not a cetane booster.

GoFaster said:

(snip) the additive beng asked about by the original poster is not a cetane booster.

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__. Which is why I'm not very big on two--stroke oil. I ran Power Service in my '02 sedan for 130K miles -- 57MPG average (62 MPG on many tanks), no intake clogging, no injector cleaning necessary, never had problems with water, etc. I won't run without a good additive but I want cetane improvement, water handling, component cleaning, etc. -- all of which two-stroke oil doesn't have. I guess if you want to be *really* overboard and add two-smoke oil in addition to a good diesel fuel additive then you'd be buying extra lubricity.

wjdell said:

There is some advantage to - having upper cylinder lubrication.

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I'm going to need some explanation for this.

My understanding is that upper cylinder lubrication played a part in engine longavity in many decades past - when leaded fuel was used. Valve seats weren't of quality hardened metal in years past, so the lead in gasoline served to lubricate valve seats as well as increase octane. Companies also made other additives for this in order to provide upper cylinder lubricant for gasoline engines.

Now in a diesel, there is zero fuel in the intake passages because the fuel is direct injection. Thus, any fuel additives can't act as the same upper cylinder lubricant as gasoline additives do. Plus, diesel fuel itself has lubrication properties that gasoline does not have, so I don't think lubrication additives to diesel fuel serve the same purposes as ones added to gasoline.

I can understand how 2-stroke oil might add lubrication for high-pressure fuel pumps or other high-pressure fuel system components, but is it true to say that 2-stroke oil does not act as upper cylinder lubricant in the traditional sense?

mopar - I can not find the article, a link was posted in the BIO section I believe from Chevron BIO Diesel. IF you read it they claim the reduced wear is from upper cylinder lubrication. They also make it clear that the disadvantages out number the advantages. cylinder walls are cylinder walls - gas or diesel.

... but in a gasoline engine, incoming fuel during the intake stroke comes in contact with the cylinder walls (and can wash off the existing oil film in adverse conditions), and that's not true in a diesel.

In my '01 ALH I used 5 oz. of Powerservice and 3 oz. of Merc outboard two stroke oil with every other fill up. That motor had many mods and ran great when sold with 244k miles. I think the additional lubrication is beneficial to the pump and injectors.

I continue to use this cocktail in my '06 PD as well. At 18k miles no problems. JOHN

What causes fuel dilution in a diesel engine oil, were does this fuel come from that enters the oil. What lubricates the injector in a diesel engine, the fuel itself.

Fuel dilution in ANY engine is from unburned fuel which comes in contact with the cylinder walls or is present in the small but inevitable amount of blow-by leakage past the piston rings, and ends up getting into the crankcase. Doesn't matter gas or diesel.

The fuel itself certainly lubricates the injection system. If everything is the way it's supposed to be, then the injection system will be designed for the lubricity present in fuel conforming to the standards, and the fuels will be made according to the standards ...