Gen 3 fix extended warranty

So I was just going through the official document for the fix, and the extended warranty raises some questions for me.

The warranty period for the “Extended Emissions Warranty” limited
warranty extension shall be the greater of:
- 11 years or 162,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from
the vehicle’s original in-service date; OR
- 5 years or 60,000 miles, whichever occurs first, from the
date and mileage of Phase 1 of the emissions modification.
At the time of the subsequent Phase 2 modification, the
extended warranty will be honored for 5 years or 60,000
miles, whichever occurs first, from the date and mileage of
the completion of Phase 2.

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Obviously, the greater of the two for all of us at the moment is 11 years/162k miles. Where does the 5 years/60k come into play, and what's the difference between "original in-service date" and the dates of the Phase 1/2 completion?
Also, with the parts covered under the warranty, it looks to me that most major engine components are covered. Does this mean that we'll be driving cars with mostly free major service repairs for many years to come? What are they leaving out? That said, I can foresee a likelihood that if my turbo blows at 90k they'll try and give me a runaround that the turbo blew from causes not related to the emissions, and thus not cover the repair.

Good points, at the bottom of the document "Conflicts concerning the warranty are to be resolved in favor of the consumer" hmmmmm.

The 2nd part of the warranty matters if you've got more than 102k miles when either part of the fix is performed.

Since phase 2 is to be in 2018, I imagine some folks could easily have over 102k miles at that point. The warranty covering essentially the entire engine an additional 5yr/60k miles is very generous in my opinion. The only other thing I think would work well for VW would be to offer free filling of DEF through that same extended warranty period. It's cheap, and would offer the typical driver less hassle if the usage does go up noticeably.

fredthe said:

The 2nd part of the warranty matters if you've got more than 102k miles when either part of the fix is performed.

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Ah I see....so if I roll in there with 60k on the clock I'll receive the 11 year warranty.

All discussion in that document refers to the "extended warranty" applying to only emissions related equipment (including fuel system and turbo, which is nice) - except for this little comment on page 10 which caught my eye;

.."Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train"..

-but no further explanation of this "long block warranty" is mentioned anywhere. Are they simply referring to the original 3yr/36k warranty, or are they inferring the long block (powertrain) warranty is being extended also ?

Reviewing this document, I'm not seeing any benefit to owners having phase 1 done now, then waiting for phase 2 to be done next year in 2018 (if/when its ever ready). Running my engine a full extra year on crippled software that will most assuredly reduce mpg & power while increasing DEF consumption & soot load in engine components & oil, has no appeal to me whatsoever. Ill wait til next year for the full and complete 2-part "fix", if this is the case. Rushing out phase 1 without phase 2 even being approved/engineered yet sounds like VW trying to appease our EPA/courts rather than their consumers.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...ssions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

viking427 said:

All discussion in that document refers to the "extended warranty" applying to only emissions related equipment (including fuel system and turbo, which is nice) - except for this little comment on page 10 which caught my eye;

.."Additionally, the engine long block warranty shall cover the engine sub-assembly that consists of the assembled block, crankshaft, cylinder head, camshaft, and valve train"..

-but no further explanation of this "long block warranty" is mentioned anywhere. Are they simply referring to the original 3yr/36k warranty, or are they inferring the long block (powertrain) warranty is being extended also ?

Reviewing this document, I'm not seeing any benefit to owners having phase 1 done now, then waiting for phase 2 to be done next year in 2018 (if/when its ever ready). Running my engine a full extra year on crippled software that will most assuredly reduce mpg & power while increasing DEF consumption & soot load in engine components & oil, has no appeal to me whatsoever. Ill wait til next year for the full and complete 2-part "fix", if this is the case. Rushing out phase 1 without phase 2 even being approved/engineered yet sounds like VW trying to appease our EPA/courts rather than their consumers.

https://www.vwcourtsettlement.com/e...ssions_Modification_Disclosure_Volkswagen.pdf

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I agree. Only benefit I see is getting 2/3 of the settlement money for the fix. Maybe someone gets the money with phase 1, then gets a tune done to make it normal again. Then go get phase 2 if you want the last 1/3 of the money and the extended warranty.

The benefit is the restitution now. I doubt fuel economy or performance are going to suffer. DEF usage will increase, but 1-14% doesn't sound like much. Plus, the extended warranty if I read correctly gets extended to 5yr/60k miles at the end of both phases meaning you get yet another extension as phase two is completed.

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I would advise AGAINST getting a tune done on any of these cars. Doing so would invalidate that warranty or, at a minimum, create a huge fight. You don't want to own these cars outside of warranty.

A legitimate course of action is to get the phase 1 fix done soon, at the end of your factory warranty if you so wish and if the timing works out for you, and collect most of your cash and get that 60,000 mile warranty started (it covers things that the factory warranty doesn't, or which have been a fight to get them to cover). Then delay the phase 2 fix as long as you can or until shortly before the deadline or until shortly before you burn through that 60,000 mile extra warranty (whichever the case may be), then get the phase 2 fix done and reset the clock on the 60,000 mile warranty again.

Don't do anything that would give VW an excuse to invalidate that warranty.

If the car uses a little more fuel or a little more DEF ... that cash they're giving you ought to MORE than cover it ...

GoFaster said:

I would advise AGAINST getting a tune done on any of these cars. Doing so would invalidate that warranty or, at a minimum, create a huge fight. You don't want to own these cars outside of warranty.

A legitimate course of action is to get the phase 1 fix done soon, at the end of your factory warranty if you so wish and if the timing works out for you, and collect most of your cash and get that 60,000 mile warranty started (it covers things that the factory warranty doesn't, or which have been a fight to get them to cover). Then delay the phase 2 fix as long as you can or until shortly before the deadline or until shortly before you burn through that 60,000 mile extra warranty (whichever the case may be), then get the phase 2 fix done and reset the clock on the 60,000 mile warranty again.

Don't do anything that would give VW an excuse to invalidate that warranty.

If the car uses a little more fuel or a little more DEF ... that cash they're giving you ought to MORE than cover it ...

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Valid points, but the discrepancy is which warranty you will actually receive, because it's worded strangely and doesn't really explain which warranty applies to you. That said, either warranty should benefit you. Also, based on the wording, it would appear that the two 5yr/60k warranties don't add onto each other. So, if you use up 20k from Phase 1 by the time you receive Phase 2, you won't get that 60k added to your remaining 40k. If you're given 11yr/162k then obviously you have nothing to worry about. But again, they need to make it clearer on which warranty actually applies to you.

Also, I did try contacting the VW Court Settlement hotline but they were clueless. They didn't know about this document or that extended warranties even existed.

The 5 yr / 60k warranty resets when you get phase 2 done.

How is there a discrepancy on "which warranty you will actually receive"? It's all the same coverage. The only question is how long it goes until, and that is the later of:

- 11 years or 162,000 miles (whichever comes first) from the vehicle's original in-service date, OR...
- 5 years or 60,000 miles (whichever comes first) from when the "phase 1" fix is implemented, and this starts over when the "phase 2" fix is implemented.

Obviously there are many possible cases, but most people will be best off getting the phase 1 fix now to get this warranty started, then delay the phase 2 fix until late 2018 so that the clock restarts on the 60,000 mile warranty as late as possible.

For someone who doesn't put on much annual mileage (< 15,000 mi/yr) then they will probably fall under the 11 yr / 162,000 mi from originally in service anyhow. Someone like this would probably have around 30,000 mi on the car now and let's say 50,000 by the time they get phase 2 done. They're not putting enough mileage on the car for the 5 yr / 60,000 mi thing to come into effect.

If someone puts 40,000 mi/yr on their car then they probably have about 80,000 on it now and are already mostly, if not entirely, through their factory warranty. If they get the phase 1 fix done now then they are covered through 162,000 mi total on the car. (There's more than 60,000 mi left until that threshold is reached.) If they delay phase 2 for a year and a half then they'll have about 140,000 on it at that time. The 162,000 mi total provision is almost done, but they'll now be covered under the 60,000 mi warranty until it has 200,000 on it.

GoFaster said:

Don't do anything that would give VW an excuse to invalidate that warranty.

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"All disputes shall be resolved in favor of the consumer."

VW isn't going to squabble. They can't.

My biggest concern with the fix is it plainly states that the useful life of everything is 150K miles.

Say I get phase one done now @ 40K miles, and then phase two @ 60K miles. I'll be out of warranty @ 120K, with unknown/untested stress on my original DPF, and the chance that $3K+ in emissions equipment will be crapping out at any time, and I'm on my own

Shife said:

"All disputes shall be resolved in favor of the consumer."

VW isn't going to squabble. They can't.

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If you think VW is going to change their warranty attitude regarding modifications now, I think you'll be sorely mistaken.

-J

compu_85 said:

If you think VW is going to change their warranty attitude regarding modifications now, I think you'll be sorely mistaken.

-J

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They don't have a choice. They agreed to this in a Federal Court. The word "shall" bears rather important significance here.

TTaM said:

My biggest concern with the fix is it plainly states that the useful life of everything is 150K miles.

Say I get phase one done now @ 40K miles, and then phase two @ 60K miles. I'll be out of warranty @ 120K, with unknown/untested stress on my original DPF, and the chance that $3K+ in emissions equipment will be crapping out at any time, and I'm on my own

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That is the design life of the car. Pretty much any modern car. Some people get more, some less.

By 2020 even the gassers are going to have these types of exhaust treatment systems. There isn't much escaping it.

TTaM said:

My biggest concern with the fix is it plainly states that the useful life of everything is 150K miles.

Say I get phase one done now @ 40K miles, and then phase two @ 60K miles. I'll be out of warranty @ 120K, with unknown/untested stress on my original DPF, and the chance that $3K+ in emissions equipment will be crapping out at any time, and I'm on my own

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No, you are covered until 162,000 mi or 11 years from original in-service date, because in your situation, that will extend beyond the 60,000 mi from time of fix.

Shife said:

They don't have a choice. They agreed to this in a Federal Court. The word "shall" bears rather important significance here.

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Why don't you try it and let us know how it works out for you

I'm going to recommend people leave their vehicles stock to maintain the warranty.

-J

The new warranty book clearly states that modifications to the vehicle's emission system components or ECU must be returned to stock as VW may not be able to perform the necessary updates. I'd wager to say that the dealers that don't touch modified cars will continue that practice, and vice versa for those dealers that don't mind.

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Shife said:

They don't have a choice. They agreed to this in a Federal Court. The word "shall" bears rather important significance here.

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The same situation as someone who tried to return a stripped car: they will refuse unless the customer pays to put the car back to stock, and the courts will agree, because the car in question is no longer the same car that they agreed to cover under warranty. The dispute resolution clause was never intended to cover intentional damage or circumvention - and it won't.

I can flash the car back to stock in about 10 minutes. What the hell happened to this place? Where did all the enthusiasts go? All that's left appear to be pillow biting novices. Do you guys yell at the cars passing you on the highway with "Hey, you can't do that!"?

I've processed warranty claims. I've been involved in arbitrated warranty disputes. I used to do this crap for a living. VW isn't going to fight on this, especially after agreeing to very clear language in federal court.

GoFaster said:

If someone puts 40,000 mi/yr on their car then they probably have about 80,000 on it now and are already mostly, if not entirely, through their factory warranty. If they get the phase 1 fix done now then they are covered through 162,000 mi total on the car. (There's more than 60,000 mi left until that threshold is reached.) If they delay phase 2 for a year and a half then they'll have about 140,000 on it at that time. The 162,000 mi total provision is almost done, but they'll now be covered under the 60,000 mi warranty until it has 200,000 on it.

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Ahhhhhh I see I see I see......this is what I needed. So I have 45k on the clock right now, and because that's over 100k away from 162k, I'll receive the 11 year/162k warranty. If I had say 120k on the clock I'd be within the 60k range, so I'd receive the 5 year/60k at Stage 1, then it would go into effect again with Stage 2.

Shife said:

I can flash the car back to stock in about 10 minutes.

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Someone who has removed the DPF won't be able to do that.

GoFaster said:

Someone who has removed the DPF won't be able to do that.

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No, that would take a few hours to swap back in.

Why is this such a big issue for you?

A: You're in Canada. We're talking about legal language in a US federal court.
B: What skin do you have in this? Why does it seem to bother you so?
C: What background do you have to make some of your claims? "Moderator" isn't relevant. What experience do you have in this industry to state opinion as factual information?

If you can put the DPF back in in three hours, I will pay for your flight to come do mine. The EGR cooler alone is a nightmare to think about with that blind bolt. I bought my golf used so the restitution amount is less than we're getting on the wagon, but I still am not sure I want to go through the trouble of installing that stuff for a day just to get the flash and remove it again. Though the money would benefit upcoming projects.

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I got mine fixed and besides the exhaust system warranty, the entire fuel system is covered and I think that is good 6 years or 162,000 miles (includes the HPFP).

I also called about the different warranty option as stated its 6 years or 162,000. If you have high miles i.e. 102k when you start your updates you will get 60K for each phase.