2010 Sportwagen TDI Southbend Single Mass Flywheel+ Stage Two Clutch Installed

With 200k miles on my sportwagen (6-speed manual), the flywheel was on its last leg. The clutch was still holding its own which I was surprised by. The amount of play in the original DMF was extremely concerning during my inspection once it was removed. I'm shocked it was still in one piece. It was time to replace both and I ended up going with a single mass flywheel and stage 2 clutch from Southbend. I had a lot of trouble finding information on anyone that had installed a single mass flywheel on a CJAA 2.0 TDI. Anyways, I haven't driven the car that much since the install which was done today. Yes there is gear rattle as expected. Clutch pedal feels a little lighter will more bounce to it. Still in the break in period so I don't have much else to say yet. Currently I'm Malone stage 2, DPF delete, Rawtek DP and 3" non-resonated to the factory cat-back (for now), and now the addition of the flywheel and clutch.
Video of gear chatter: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9au2h_LuNTc&list=UUDXt0FBtEFADatDyNb9AaHg

Curious to hear your impressions over the next few weeks and months.
Enjoy your tune!

Colin,
Did you go with the Daily or the Endurance? After a recent turbo upgrade I'm starting to get some clutch slip if I really hammer it.
The original stock clutch was doing fine with a Stage 2 tune, but now with the addition of the CR170 turbo from IDParts, it clearly is on the edge of handling the extra torque.
Cheers,
R*2

subbed

I just went with the daily. Yeah my stock clutch even with the miles I have was holding up just fine. My main reason in doing this was due to the flywheel.

When removing transmission, have you noticed if these units have inspection hole on the bell housing? Just curious.

My stage 2 Endurance is in the shop for installation this morning. I'll post a review after I get it broken in.
Cheers!
R*2

First impressions, after 100miles. Clutch is a tad heavier on the pedal, but in no way objectionable. Initial engagement is quite low, but smooth, and lives up to the claims of being very similar to stock
The SMF does lead to a bit of diesel clatter, it now sounds like a diesel, but that doesn't bother me at all.
Like Colin above, my DMF was starting to break down, the mechanic was surprised at the amount of play, the clutch plate itself was in quite good shape. It was clearly responsible for a noticeable lag/bump going from 0 throttle to power on when driven hard.
Time will tell whether the unit lives up to it's moniker "Endurance".
Cheers,
R*2

^^^^Agree with all of that. I'm about 1,500 miles in now everything is still good. Very happy with it.

Update: About 8k miles in and still holding up just fine. Though a couple weeks ago I lost 6th gear in the transmission which was odd. Installed a "used" trans with 3,000 miles and things have been fine since.

Colindunn said:

Update: About 8k miles in and still holding up just fine. Though a couple weeks ago I lost 6th gear in the transmission which was odd. Installed a "used" trans with 3,000 miles and things have been fine since.

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Have you considered a Fluidampr to reduce chatter? How many miles were on the clock when 6th disappeared? Was it non existent or grinded going in? Also with miles on the clutch did the chatter die down a bit? How heavy was the flywheel that went in?

Sorry for the 20 questions

elitegunslinger said:

Have you considered a Fluidampr to reduce chatter? How many miles were on the clock when 6th disappeared? Was it non existent or grinded going in? Also with miles on the clutch did the chatter die down a bit? How heavy was the flywheel that went in?
Sorry for the 20 questions

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Glad you asked these, I'm interested as well...

The level of chatter doesn't bother me at all, it just sounds like it isn't a "good" sound and I have to continue to convince myself it isn't going to damage anything.
I was right around 206K miles when 6th went out.. on the highway in 6th gear went to pass someone and I had some bad vibration, for only a second, and it "popped" out of 6th but the gear shifter was still in 6th. 6th revved freely as did neutral. I never had any issues with it being tough to put into any gear or any grinding at all. So it was kind of unexpected.

Also to note, The vibration I experienced as 6th went out, was nearly identical to the vibration feeling I felt when I would load it up in a higher gear with my bad worn out OEM dual mass flywheel. Don't know if there was any relation but I thought it was interesting.

Following the loss of 6th gear, I put it in 5th and it was completely fine. When I let the clutch out in 4th, it felt like the trans wanted to come out of the car. 1,2, and 3 were fine but overall there was extremely loud gear chatter coming from the trans I'm assuming due to there being a bunch of metal teeth flying around inside. When I would go and put it into 6th it was like putting it into neutral. No hesitation or grinding. Just was no longer there.

As stated above, chatter stays the same. No change at all.

Funny you bring up the weight because I'm upset with myself for not weighing both flywheels to compare. I still have my original flywheel and clutch, was thinking about contacting idparts or southbound to get the weight of the one I put in.

Also, I was unsure of availability for a damper to quiet down the chatter. I looked into that briefly and could not find anything for the 2.0 CJAA.

I've had some comments on the noise, push in the clutch and it dissapears, so it's clearly the gearbox. Of note is the previous tendency to stall, now gone.
There's a thread somewhere discussing many who have experienced this, how after years of driving manuals, how ez it is to stall out suddenly at low revs. I'm coming round to think that it's the DMF and its lag as the springs dampen the initial torque. You think you've got enough revs and throttle but the response is just slow enough to catch the engine cutoff point.

It took me a bit aback to suddenly start stalling a clutched vehicle, but was heartened to find that I was not alone in this tendency. You soon adapt the driving technique, but since the new flywheel, I doubt that it'll happen at all.

If your debating the upgrade, live with the noise, the change in driving feel is
well worth it.

Cheers,
R*2

I have logged a lot of miles on my 6speed TDI 2012 golf custom tune big cr 170 turbo and exhaust wave track koni yellow hr race springs. I road race this car and auto cross it. I had chronic synchronizer failure on 1st through 4th gears. The 5th 6th are brass. The others are carbon steel and are brittle. With the harmonics of the solid flywheel it creates a death rattle that destroys the carbon syncros in the 6speed 02Q. You must put a fluid dampened on the crank to help suppress the harmonics. Since doing so it has survived several track events and has been driven hard for many miles with out a failure. I was becoming a real pro at tearing down 02Q 6speeds. Also recommend 1 liter of light weight shock proof gear oil to be added to regular gear oil. Definitely do not let the car idle in neutral for extended times. BTW the 1.8 t fluid damper is a bolt on just put a shim behind the belt tensioner is not far off enough to hurt the belt. The fluid dampener dampens the harmonics in all rpm ranges. Unlike traditional rubber dampeners that are designed for a specific ramp range only. So that is not an issue.

1963gp said:

I have logged a lot of miles on my 6speed TDI 2012 golf custom tune big cr 170 turbo and exhaust wave track koni yellow hr race springs. I road race this car and auto cross it. I had chronic synchronizer failure on 1st through 4th gears. The 5th 6th are brass. The others are carbon steel and are brittle. With the harmonics of the solid flywheel it creates a death rattle that destroys the carbon syncros in the 6speed 02Q. You must put a fluid dampened on the crank to help suppress the harmonics. Since doing so it has survived several track events and has been driven hard for many miles with out a failure. I was becoming a real pro at tearing down 02Q 6speeds. Also recommend 1 liter of light weight shock proof gear oil to be added to regular gear oil. Definitely do not let the car idle in neutral for extended times. BTW the 1.8 t fluid damper is a bolt on just put a shim behind the belt tensioner is not far off enough to hurt the belt. The fluid dampener dampens the harmonics in all rpm ranges. Unlike traditional rubber dampeners that are designed for a specific ramp range only. So that is not an issue.

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You've answered my question, I need a fluidampr.

1963GP,
Scuse my ignorance here, but can a fluidampr be easily installed when doing a timing belt change/service? I'm coming up on the 120k mark and my mechanic is pushing me to do it sooner rather than later with what sounds like a very similar setup to what you have, Stage II and CR170 turbo, DieselDub exhaust and the accompanying deletes.
From what I'm reading on Fluidampr's website, it certainly looks like the way to go.
Undoubtedly cheaper than replacing the synchros!
Thanks very much for sharing your knowledge and experience.
Cheers,
R*2

I've been looking at a SB SMF upgrade since doing the CR 170 Turbo and Stage 3 Malone Tune. Been driving my car easy to prevent clutch slippage but it's like dating a smokin' hot chick that won't let you touch her....what's the point? Lol I just need to know if this clutch is going to be ok for normal everyday driving with the occasional light to light race I just don't want to run into that synchro problem and replace a tranny. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

1963gp said:

BTW the 1.8 t fluid damper is a bolt on just put a shim behind the belt tensioner is not far off enough to hurt the belt. The fluid dampener dampens the harmonics in all rpm ranges. Unlike traditional rubber dampeners that are designed for a specific ramp range only. So that is not an issue.

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Any 1.8T fluid damper will work? Did the damper quiet it down at all?

Does anyone know where the best place to buy a new set of synchros for the 02Q?



Send Issam N. Abed a message. He is a fluidampr dealer any will get you set up with the right fluidampr and adapter. The fluidampr for the 02Q is $407.38 shipped and it will take him a couple days to machine the adapter. Here is a link to his official fluidampr thread.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=404646

Rrusse11 said:

1963GP,
Scuse my ignorance here, but can a fluidampr be easily installed when doing a timing belt change/service?
Cheers,
R*2

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20 minutes from what I've been told.

So far stealership is only bet for new syncros. I also ad to replace 3rd gear. no issues since I installed the fluid dampener. I have gotten real good at tearing down and building 02qs

Ufo et al,
Thanks for all the input, I've been in touch with Issam, my next trip to the 1000 Islands will include a side trip to see him in Ottawa and p/u one of his fluidampr + shim kit. If he can indeed do it in 20 mins, obviously in practice, I may have him do the installation as well.
The Czech gearbox tweaks look interesting as well, and with the stronger dollar, not too expensive. Should substantially increase long term durability.
Cheers!
R*2

This was copied from another thread.

INA
Vendor
w/Business number

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Ottawa
TDI(s): 2.5 TDI
Default
Which 14 lb SMF do you have? South Bend is in the 22 lb range.
Edit : If it was me I would do the pulley first since its 15-20 mins labour time vs 5 hours to change out a flywheel.
__________________
Issam N. Abed
http://www.inaengineering.com/
EMAIL (click)

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1963gp said:

So far stealership is only bet for new syncros. I also ad to replace 3rd gear. no issues since I installed the fluid dampener. I have gotten real good at tearing down and building 02qs

Click to expand...

Looks like the SQS mob may have a synchro kit as well. Don't know how the price compares to OEM.

http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/451:557:racing-synchro-strong-gears-02m-02q-mq350

I was able to find a new set through Fix My VW in Georgia. With new synchros, a fluidampr, shifting fork reinforcement kit from SQS Racing, and a brass slider kit from SQS Racing my transmission should be good to go for more HP and many more miles. Also installing a short shifter kit from Dieselgeek.

UFO,
Thanks for the synchro source. Mine are still fine with only 4k on the SMF, but the pounding they are taking at idle is clearly a problem waiting to happen. I'll be going the same route as you, minus the short shifter kit. I'll get the bits and pieces together and have it all installed when I do the timing belt, coming up up in 1500 miles.
Thanks to all for the info and resources!
Cheers,
R*2

Short shifter http://www.dieselgeek.com/mobile/Product.aspx?ProductCode=SS-SIGMA6

Brass slider
http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/452:558:02q-fork-bronze-sliders-to-steel-forks

shifting fork reinforcement http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/457:563:02q-02m-fork-reinforcement-kit

A very good source of parts and information. http://www.fixmyvw.com/


Here is a link to his official fluidampr thread.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=404646