Is the transmission dead?

Cliff notes:

• Pulled transmission for a burnt clutch due to a broken shift linkage
• Driver didn't know that they were slipping the clutch and limped the car home
• Sleep wasn't on my side
• Power washed transmission before reinstalling and noted that I did loose some trans fluid
• Forgot to check how much I lost by re-adding gear oil back in
• Started car and shut it off after about 10 seconds due to grinding noise that sounded like the starter not releasing
• Checked shift linkage alignment with wheels in air, idling, 1 thru 5 and watched speedometer climb
• Progressively diagnosed starter out of the picture with some engine idle run-time
• Looked inside trans's fill port
• *mental recital of expletives*
• Never revved the engine, between 0.1 and 0.2 miles "driven" (freewheeling in air)
• Filled with ~0.3-0.4 quarts or liters of G60 and topped off to overflowing with MTL

Grinding noise is still present, but subdued. Similar to what I've heard with a delayed retraction of the starter's gear, but not the same. There was 10-20% of the OE level of gear oil present during the testing.

I never heard the car operate prior to pulling the transmission when the original problem occured. The driver is not savvy enough to note a slipping clutch until stopping at a read light and smelling the clutch. Driver tried repeatedly to get the transmission into gear and reverse with a broken/breaking shift linkage. Succeeded when the car was off and I assume slipped it and limped it home in 2nd.

Did I cause damage to the transmission, or was it caused by the driver. This is a car of our family and was driven by a family member so speculation does have any legal discourse, in case you're wondering.

I have a spare starter and transmission, for what it is worth. I don't know if I'll be able to swap in the starter, to isolate the noise, today.

So you did or didn't add gear oil during this stage?

"Forgot to check how much I lost by re-adding gear oil back in"

Cuz it sounds like you did add oil based on what you wrote.

And it took less than a half liter to bring the trans to full condition?

If that's the case I don't think you did anything, these won't fail that easily if down just .5 L, that's not much. If they did fail I think we'd have a lot more comments on here about that.

Nice that you have a replacement but IDK if it's dead or not. I'd do the starter first and then try and drive it and see what happens.

Steve

Last bullet point, added the oil at that point. It took about 1-1.25 liters/quarts. Bottles are in the trash and at this volume the difference between the two isn’t significant.

That change your eval? I’d be surprised if I killed it, but other opinions are welcomed.

Digital Corpus said:

Last bullet point, added the oil at that point. It took about 1-1.25 liters/quarts. Bottles are in the trash and at this volume the difference between the two isn’t significant.

That change your eval? I’d be surprised if I killed it, but other opinions are welcomed.

Click to expand...

IDK, maybe, so you had probably less than a liter in the trans? The CTN only takes like 2L so it was very low. But I'm not sure that the damage would have been done so quickly. Certainly there was something inside that wasn't submerged into the oil but components in the gearbox weren't dry either so I'd be hard pressed to say that you damaged it.

I would think it would take longer for the damage to occur.

Steve

I may have some experience with not filling a manual transmission and then driving it...

This was on a long-dead-in-the-wreckers saturn wagon, but the transmission was drained, and then driven empty for at least 10-15km. Like start-stop city driving - the only lube left on the gears and bearings was residual from when it was last driven.

upon hearing a louder than normal whine/hum, pulled over and put 2 and 2 together.

walked to a local hardware store and bought 2L of transmission fluid (tranny took ATF) and a funnel.

drove that transmission for 3 more years with no ill effects.

If yours still had ~3/4 of a Liter in it and was only "driven" unloaded on a lift?

I would have a hard time thinking you caused *any* damage whatsoever.

The diff will still fling fluid if theres only 1/2 a liter in there - enough to keep the teeth and bearings wet. Especially if the trans is level and not sloshing the fluid to any one side.

I think your grinding noises have another origin.

I’m reminded of the Geico slogan:
We all do dumb things
But paying too much for car insurance doesn’t have to be one of them

Thanks for the story.

When the clutch pedal is depressed, the noise is definitively worse/louder. If the starter is fine, then it is the new clutch or the transmission. This is the same [model] DMF being put back in due to all the reasons one would like a DMF and it’s cost so it’s not like I do anything more than torqe down 6 bolts in a TTY manner and put the transmission back on.

DMF flywheel rubbing on the rear main seal shield. The Bently mentions measuring and shimming. Seriously wish I has a 1 mm shim to use. My standard flywheel rubbed, but sounded distinctly different that this. Must be the thinner steel, the hollowness, and the damping that's making it sound awful. I know it'll go away within a week.

Thanks for helping the sleep deprived here.

Digital Corpus said:

When the clutch pedal is depressed, the noise is definitively worse/louder.

Click to expand...

Doesn't this usually indicate a bad throwout bearing?

In my experience, noise from a bad TO bearing goes away, when the clutch is depressed, although I’ve only had bad TO bearings in 020s.

I guess the slop that’s making the noise is taken away, when load is introduced.

-Todd

Replaced the bearing with the clutch the first time, less than a year ago. Keeping this new one as a generic spare for any of our 3 manuals.

I’d expect some flexion of the assembly with the force required to depress the pressure plate springs since the flywheel is not solid. About 40 miles of driving and it’s diminished significantly as expected. Have yet to hear a bad TO bearing, but I’d also expect to feel it in the clutch pedal too maybe?

Its been a month with no other issues, fwiw.