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Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal

Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:02   #106
Mythdoc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fourplay View Post
I don't think it's "alternate reality", just people who would like to make money.

The operative word was "all" of us do.

This is what my son calls "main character syndrome." Here we are on a diesel car site, founded for lovers and drivers of diesel cars, and where the expectation would normally be that folks here would want the cars to perform well, instead, due to what I think I am very accurately calling an "alternate reality" situation, many are rooting for the opposite, so they can cash in cars they have no attachment to for a payday.

Yes, it's weird. But no worries, you are the main character in this drama, and what you want for yourself, we all must therefore want for ourselves.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:17   #107
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Originally Posted by Fourplay View Post
I have about $500k worth of Gen 2 vehicles that will be worth nearly $1 million if they don't find a fix. You bet your ass I'm praying that they don't find a fix or the fix doesn't work - I could very nearly retire with that amount of cash.
Do you mind me asking: what are you going to do with them if there is a fix? Their market value is going to plummet isn't it? you'll make some fix/restitution money but presumably lose all that in resale.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:26   #108
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You should still have a title, it will just show a lien.
Not in AZ, sold back 2 2.0's without titles. The reg worked for me, "Documents Complete"!
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:29   #109
Fourplay
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Originally Posted by Mythdoc View Post
The operative word was "all" of us do.

This is what my son calls "main character syndrome." Here we are on a diesel car site, founded for lovers and drivers of diesel cars, and where the expectation would normally be that folks here would want the cars to perform well, instead, due to what I think I am very accurately calling an "alternate reality" situation, many are rooting for the opposite, so they can cash in cars they have no attachment to for a payday.

Yes, it's weird. But no worries, you are the main character in this drama, and what you want for yourself, we all must therefore want for ourselves.
I actually owned several of these cars prior to the scandal. They're great cars. My own financial interests aside, I can't see why anyone would root for the currently proposed fixes to work. Here's why:

1. After the fix, the Gen 2 cars are never going to perform like they do currently. They will absolutely have reduced power, increased fuel consumption, and increased DEF consumption. How dramatic these changes will be still remains to be seen, but they are inevitable.

2. Whether or not an approved fix is found in the next 6 months, all of the cars have warranties (bridge and then extended).

3. If an approved fix is not found within 6 months, the amount of restitution that you will receive greatly increases (even if you elect to keep the car vs. a buyback).

Basically, hoping that they find a timely fix means that you will still get a car that is worse than it was before, but you won't be compensated as well for it. Who would hope for that?

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Originally Posted by opsx View Post
Do you mind me asking: what are you going to do with them if there is a fix? Their market value is going to plummet isn't it? you'll make some fix/restitution money but presumably lose all that in resale.
I have a dealer license and will sell them as pre-owned vehicles with extended warranties. Most of the vehicles I've purchased were between $25-35k, so the repair + Bosch payment is roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of the vehicle value. It's unlikely that the values will drop sharply enough to erase all of that profit, especially considering the extended warranty on the Gen 2 cars.

Last edited by Fourplay; May 19th, 2017 at 09:33.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:40   #110
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Originally Posted by Mythdoc View Post
The operative word was "all" of us do.

This is what my son calls "main character syndrome." Here we are on a diesel car site, founded for lovers and drivers of diesel cars, and where the expectation would normally be that folks here would want the cars to perform well, instead, due to what I think I am very accurately calling an "alternate reality" situation, many are rooting for the opposite, so they can cash in cars they have no attachment to for a payday.

Yes, it's weird. But no worries, you are the main character in this drama, and what you want for yourself, we all must therefore want for ourselves.
Actually I am the original poster, others are just agreeing. Whats weird is anyone would not want the buyback option and getting that money. The car w a fix is going to have a crap resell value and perform worse w more work(adding more adblue). Who in their right mind would prefer that???
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:42   #111
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And the 13-14's only have 5 more months for a timely fix. Their date is oct 23rd if I am not mistaken.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:44   #112
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Originally Posted by Fourplay View Post
I have a dealer license and will sell them as pre-owned vehicles with extended warranties. Most of the vehicles I've purchased were between $25-35k, so the repair + Bosch payment is roughly 1/3 to 1/4 of the vehicle value. It's unlikely that the values will drop sharply enough to erase all of that profit, especially considering the extended warranty on the Gen 2 cars.
Well, I'm rooting for you. There are plenty of Gen 2s popping up out there but I'm too risk adverse to get involved in that!
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:44   #113
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Would it be possible to clone the ecu with a tune that can erase the modifications to return to stock or even upgrade performance?

A swap of the ecu for scheduled servicing at the dealership could keep an owner and dealership happy.

The 335d enthusiasts are doing that regularily.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:47   #114
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And the 13-14's only have 5 more months for a timely fix. Their date is oct 23rd if I am not mistaken.
I wonder what the odds on buyback of 13-14's ?
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:48   #115
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Well, I'm rooting for you. There are plenty of Gen 2s popping up out there but I'm too risk adverse to get involved in that!
Thanks, it definitely is a risk, but a pretty controlled one. From my calculations before I started buying them, it'll either be a 95% ROI or 10-15% ROI. Neither of which is terrible.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:50   #116
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My understanding is that this is paid immediately when the claim is approved--you get half now, and the other half when the fix is done. If a fix isn't approved, the participation payment is deducted from the buyback or whatever else you get.
I see. But has anyone actually gotten any details about how specifically that Participation Payment for Gen 2 vehicles is paid?

Basically, I'm just trying to make sure that if I buy that 2014 Q7 this weekend that I can't lose out on that half of the restitution due to the Participation Payment (again, I already verified in the portal that there wasn't a previous owner claim made). I would think VW wouldn't give anyone the Participation Payment without them physically bringing the car in to prove they still own it but the court docs seem to say nothing on that matter.

I guess my logic is that, if no one has even had an opportunity to elect for the Performance Payment yet, I'm probably pretty safe if I buy a car this weekend and immediately file a claim.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:53   #117
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I wonder what the odds on buyback of 13-14's ?
I would say those are the best bet, the fix date is 1-2 months earlier then the others. I dont know if they made any changes between those and the cars/or 15/16 q7/5 and touregs that would make them a tougher fix.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:54   #118
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I would say those are the best bet, the fix date is 1-2 months earlier then the others. I dont know if they made any changes between those and the cars/or 15/16 q7/5 and touregs that would make them a tougher fix.
The other plus is that the 13s/14s generally have better returns. I don't own a single 15/16 because they all are priced too high to deliver reasonable returns.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:58   #119
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When I read stuff like this I know we've crossed over into alternate reality. I know I am not the only one who wants the fix to succeed. If you read the transcript from Breyer's court, the FTC representative seems to indicate that the fix will in high likelihood be accepted. Two of the three subclasses have already been submitted by VW to EPA and CARB.

If you bought gen 1's to flip, you are fine. If you bought gen 2's, you took a chance and might come out ok, but don't assume your arbitrager's perspective applies to us all.
Do we know which 2 of the 3 subclasses have been submitted? If the 13-14's havent been yet I would double down that these cars will not get a timely fix.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 09:59   #120
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The other plus is that the 13s/14s generally have better returns. I don't own a single 15/16 because they all are priced too high to deliver reasonable returns.
I havent even looked at 15-16's. Only 13-14's.
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