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VW MKIII-A3/B4 TDIs This is a discussion about MKIII-A3/MkIII Jetta/Golf (<99.5) and B4 Passats (96,97) TDI's. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed.

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Old May 15th, 2017, 18:35   #46
abuzar1
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My car stopped working after parking overnight. The check engine light and glow plug light do not come on. When I added fuel (starting fluid) it was starting. I have replaced ignition switch and relay 109(2 different ones). I have also tried a replacement ecu. I have cleaned any grounds that I could find. I have also tried jumping relay 109.

I just tried the multimeter on the ecu plug to see which wires were getting voltage. The only wire that had absolutely nothing was pin 53 from what I see online has something to do with relay 109.

The only other electric issue I had with this car prior to all this was that the left tail light fuse would burn out as soon as you put it in.
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Old May 16th, 2017, 00:39   #47
abuzar1
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The B4 doesn't have an electric fuel pump right? It has a mechanical injection pump driven by the engine? My problem is no fuel, so the issue must be something electrical stopping the fuel from getting to the engine? I did try jumping the stop fuel solenoid but that didn't help.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 10:45   #48
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I cracked the fuel lines to be sure and there is no fuel. Whenever I supply voltage to the fuel solenoid wire the car refuses to crank. If I apply voltage while someone is cranking it, it stops. I'm gonna remove the plunger from the fuel solenoid just to see if it will start the car.

Last edited by abuzar1; May 17th, 2017 at 10:56.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 15:25   #49
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I did read through the whole thread.

You're last post is really strange. Applying power to the solenoid shouldn't affect cranking. You sure you weren't grounding it? I wouldn't think even grounding it would cause that. I thought the starting circuit was independent from the electronics.

No fuel may be the problem but it could be caused by a lot of things. Some having nothing to do with the electronics.

When you turn the key on the pump makes a several noises. The quantity adjuster makes a full or nearly full sweep and goes back to zero or some low setting. This is two clicks. The cutoff solenoid picking up is much quieter.

After you pull the guts out of the solenoid let us know what you are hearing. Leave it out until you get this figgered out.

Did you look over the harnesses carefully for chafing as was suggested?
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Past: 85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; 81 Rabbit, 1.6; 80 Dasher, 1.5; 79 Rabbit, 1.5
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Old May 17th, 2017, 19:16   #50
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The only way I can imagine putting power to the shut off solenoid would stop the engine from cranking is if there is chafed wired putting power to the ground side of the start relay. With power on both sides of the relay solenoid, the relay would disengage since there is no potential across the solenoid.

There is probably other places that could be getting shorted to power as well, but I would have to check my diagrams.
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Old May 17th, 2017, 21:32   #51
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But if there were such a short, the ECU putting power to the fuel solenoid would do the same thing???

It was suggested back a ways that he check for chafed wires. No indication that he's done so that I recall.
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Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: 02 Jetta, Auto; 98 Jetta, 5 Spd; 98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; 84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): 85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: 85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; 81 Rabbit, 1.6; 80 Dasher, 1.5; 79 Rabbit, 1.5
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Old May 17th, 2017, 21:45   #52
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If the solenoid has power from a short on the ground side of the relay solenoid and ECU power on the other side of the relay solenoid, the solenoid won't activate. Of course, I don't remember if the ECU switches power or ground, but the theory remains that a solenoid with power on each side won't activate.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 00:17   #53
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The shutoff solenoid grounds through the pump body, which grounds through the mounting bracket, which is directly connected to the engine block. Little possibility of getting 12V there!

I definitely would be looking for wiring problems too based on the symptoms. I doubt the shutoff solenoid is involved.

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Old May 18th, 2017, 07:27   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vanbcguy View Post
The shutoff solenoid grounds through the pump body, which grounds through the mounting bracket, which is directly connected to the engine block. Little possibility of getting 12V there!

I definitely would be looking for wiring problems too based on the symptoms. I doubt the shutoff solenoid is involved.

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I was talking about the start relay solenoid.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 11:02   #55
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Ok - the start relay solenoid grounds through the starter body which is in turn bolted to the transmission and engine block, little possibility of getting 12V there!

Now, if the main engine ground to the battery is disconnected all bets are off.

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Old May 18th, 2017, 12:54   #56
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Is there a relay controlling the starter solenoid? Like up in the relay panel? That is the one I am talking about.
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Old May 18th, 2017, 15:23   #57
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No, the solenoid itself is the relay. The ignition switch is connected to it.

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Old May 18th, 2017, 15:32   #58
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Ah. My ignorance on A3s is large.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 10:28   #59
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Alright so I took the plunger out and the car wouldn't crank. I figured the plunger was what grounded the wire so I connected the little wire on top of the solenoid to ground and she started! Starts runs turns off exactly like it should now.
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Old May 19th, 2017, 13:43   #60
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You've got some weird stuff going on.

The plunger itself has no electrical contact.

The solenoid wire should not be grounded. It should be on the solenoid coil which should have some resistance. Just guessing but maybe 100ish Ohms to ground. Now you're shorting it which I would think would put too high a load on the ECU and burn it out.

Earlier you applied power to that wire and nothing worked which should not happen. Losta guys do that for various reasons during troubleshooting.

Only thing that makes any kind of sense to me is you have a bad ground somewhere and grounding that wire is somehow providing a substitute ground.
__________________
Saying no to gas for 25 years:

Current: 02 Jetta, Auto; 98 Jetta, 5 Spd; 98 Dodge, 5 Spd, SB, 4x4; 84 Grand Wagoneer with Nissan SD33T, NV4500, Dana 300, Reverse Cut Dana 44, Dana 60

The Black Sheep (Only gasser): 85 CJ, 4.2 w/4.0 Head and Mopar FI.

Past: 85 Mitsubishi PU, 4D55T; 81 Rabbit, 1.6; 80 Dasher, 1.5; 79 Rabbit, 1.5
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