VW's latest response about biodiesel in TDI

TDiSkater

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2011
Location
Northern Suburbs Chicago
TDI
2011 JSW DSG Salsa Red
Thanks for the feedback! Checking out the Midwest forum now.
Seriously, relax and enjoy the car. B11 is not B99. Just watch your oil. If it starts rising, get an earlier oil change. You won't need it. Just buy your fuel from stations with high turnover.

My god. These dealers are terrible.
 

WardB

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2011
Location
Utah
TDI
2000 NB
Interesting thread:

Naturist and I run bio in our CRD (common rail diesel) Jeeps. I've had no trouble whatsoever running B-anything. As someone above posted bio isn't related to fuel delivery problems. It is related to various pollution control devices (DPF for example).

I guess I'd rather have the small amount of water we have in the west growing crops for bio rather than being polluted by fracking for the remaining petroleum resources. After being chemically polluted, it can't be used for anything.

"Whiskey is for drinking. . . water is for fighting over." That expression has a long history in a state whose (very) dominant religion proscribes drinking. We're not short of land in the west. There's still vast amounts of unpopulated, uncultivated acreage. Too bad there's no water.

George W and his old pap have purchased several hundred thousand acres of water rights in Brazil. Yes, when the oil is gone they're going to sell water. Oil companies are not concerned with our welfare.

At least TDI owners can say we use much less fuel than other US/Canadian drivers to go the same number of miles.
 

vwdieseling

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Lima Ohio
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Beetle, more bugs
Gents,

TDIs (and other light-duty pax diesels) are such a small number of diesels in the US, they really don't care if VW (or BMW or MB) approves or not. B20 is approved for most medium and heavy duty diesels.
Where I work International Freight Liner trucks are approved for only 10%. biodiesel. The reason I know this is that I put in a suggestion several years ago to start running our fleet in Ohio on biodiesel blends. I work for a Michigan based multinational corporation. Their logistics in North America is White Line Express which they own. Our Illinois plant runs their trucks on 10% blend, but no higher. By the way I got a stunning letter of reply from upper management. Also a reply from the White Line Maintenance supervisor. I believe Ohio operations are now running on 10% blend.
 

Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
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Sep 5, 2004
Location
Indiana
TDI
2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Where I work International Freight Liner trucks are approved for only 10%. biodiesel. The reason I know this is that I put in a suggestion several years ago to start running our fleet in Ohio on biodiesel blends. I work for a Michigan based multinational corporation. Their logistics in North America is White Line Express which they own. Our Illinois plant runs their trucks on 10% blend, but no higher. By the way I got a stunning letter of reply from upper management. Also a reply from the White Line Maintenance supervisor. I believe Ohio operations are now running on 10% blend.
Can you pass that info along to these guys so they can update their chart?

http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/defau...iesel-benefits-and-oem-positions.pdf?sfvrsn=4
 

vwdieseling

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Can you pass that info along to these guys so they can update their chart?

http://www.biodiesel.org/docs/defau...iesel-benefits-and-oem-positions.pdf?sfvrsn=4

I understand, you are quoting a supposed good source. I am the same, looking at my position in the company their reply to my suggestion might be as valid. I was not contesting your knowledge by any means. I just like to say that I think it is time for most logistics based companies/ trucking companies and independent's to start running biodiesel. This includes me, I have a good formula to make my own. I have been thinking of running it in my 1984 Rabbit 1.6, the engine is from Hamburg Germany and was ran on it over there. I've been running it on pump diesel and checking the pump seals occasionally to see for leaks since I switched it back over to pump diesel. I thought maybe I could save a few more pennies from the 45 MPG I get now by batching my own. The problem is getting cheap WVO around this part of Ohio. I don't feel like sneaking behind a McDonalds or Burger King at 4 am to get it. Especially since it is messy and illegal anyway to steal it. There is a feed company that picks it up in our area and recycles it.

 
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Bob_Fout

Oil Wanker
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Location
Indiana
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2003 Jetta - Alaska Green (sold) / 2015 GTI 2.0T
Text doesn't come across well. I really meant if you or someone at Freightliner could let let that biodiesel site know to they could update their list. Or is it just a regional decision?
 

vwdieseling

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Text doesn't come across well. I really meant if you or someone at Freightliner could let let that biodiesel site know to they could update their list. Or is it just a regional decision?

Could be reginonal, I was given a laconic response. I don't get that deep into the subject of biodiesel. Like I said I drive nothing but diesels, but not on the biodiesel push other than a silent supporter. I wasn't ridiculing you, like I stated. I've seen trucking companies blend their fuel with used motor oil as versus recycling it. Many years ago I helped put in underground tanks at a trucking company Overland Express for used motor oil storage. They heated their shop with it and also mixed it in their trucks diesel tanks. It might very well be a regional decision.
 
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sehaare

New member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Chicagoland
TDI
2013 Jetta sportwagon
I asked today about the use of Biodiesel in Illinois since all of the pumps are labeled with "up to 20% biodiesel" and this is what I got for a reply:
Thanks for contacting the Volkswagen Information Center regarding the use of biodiesel!
We are aware that this has become a concern for our customers in Illinois. We have issued a statement to our VW TDI owners. Due to the difficulty of finding B5 Diesel Fuel at gas stations in their state, Illinois customers may use Diesel fuel with a Biodiesel content of up to 20% (i.e. B20) even though the owner's manual only allows for B5.
We ask that these Illinois owners adhere to the following:
* Conform to the regular maintenance schedules prescribed for their vehicle
* Check the oil level in their vehicle more frequently
* If oil levels are higher than normal, change the vehicle's oil in addition to the prescribed intervals. (VW will cover the extra oil changes under the carefree maintenance program.)
Customers can be assured that we stand behind our vehicles and that we will honor the warranty even if they have to use up to B20.
I hope I was able to ease any concerns you may have had. If you have any additional questions, feel free to contact us again at www.vw.com or 800-DRIVEVW!

Now I'm not sure what you are supposed to do if you are from another state and vacation in Illinois for a few weeks (not sure why anyone would want to do that). Might be a good question for someone from Indiana, Wisconsin or Iowa to ask.
 

TomB

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May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
Interesting thread:

Naturist and I run bio in our CRD (common rail diesel) Jeeps. I've had no trouble whatsoever running B-anything. As someone above posted bio isn't related to fuel delivery problems. It is related to various pollution control devices (DPF for example).
Have you done any Used Oil Analysis on the oil to see what is really going on? What percentage are you using?

The Grand Cherokee uses the Mercedes 3.0lV6 CRD with post combustion injections and you DO get cylinder washing into the oil with B100. I saw it at B20 as well. My UOA showed the lower viscosity and the "fuel" contamination. The most obvious was the oil level INCREASING on the dipstick.

This was after 1000 miles on the fuel so it does not take long.

This is not just about the emission systems impacted by the bio, it is the mechanical damage to the main engine parts because the oil is destroyed by the bio.
 

Bugdoc

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Joined
Sep 26, 2010
Location
Central WI
TDI
2010 JSW TDI 6M
I asked today about the use of Biodiesel in Illinois since all of the pumps are labeled with "up to 20% biodiesel" and this is what I got for a reply:
Thanks for contacting the Volkswagen Information Center regarding the use of biodiesel!
We are aware that this has become a concern for our customers in Illinois. We have issued a statement to our VW TDI owners. Due to the difficulty of finding B5 Diesel Fuel at gas stations in their state, Illinois customers may use Diesel fuel with a Biodiesel content of up to 20% (i.e. B20) even though the owner's manual only allows for B5.
We ask that these Illinois owners adhere to the following:
* Conform to the regular maintenance schedules prescribed for their vehicle
* Check the oil level in their vehicle more frequently
* If oil levels are higher than normal, change the vehicle's oil in addition to the prescribed intervals. (VW will cover the extra oil changes under the carefree maintenance program.)
Customers can be assured that we stand behind our vehicles and that we will honor the warranty even if they have to use up to B20.
I hope I was able to ease any concerns you may have had. If you have any additional questions, feel free to contact us again at www.vw.com or 800-DRIVEVW!

Now I'm not sure what you are supposed to do if you are from another state and vacation in Illinois for a few weeks (not sure why anyone would want to do that). Might be a good question for someone from Indiana, Wisconsin or Iowa to ask.
I take this to mean that an occasional tank of biodiesel between B5 and B20 would be considered to be acceptable by VW. I presume that IL owners only were notified since I did not get this notice. Why didn't they notify all owners so that we are informed of this change in policy and can make informed decisions when travelling to an area where biodiesel is prevalent? VW still has issues with PR. I'm going to pose this question to them now.
 

WutGas?

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Location
Oklahoma City
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The Last Real Jetta Sedan
I take this to mean that an occasional tank of biodiesel between B5 and B20 would be considered to be acceptable by VW. I presume that IL owners only were notified since I did not get this notice. Why didn't they notify all owners so that we are informed of this change in policy and can make informed decisions when travelling to an area where biodiesel is prevalent? VW still has issues with PR. I'm going to pose this question to them now.
I absolutely would not assume that. Only Illinois owners were notified because they are the only ones it applies to according to VW. That obviously leaves a ton of gray area and it doesn't make much sense.
 

Bugdoc

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Sep 26, 2010
Location
Central WI
TDI
2010 JSW TDI 6M
I absolutely would not assume that. Only Illinois owners were notified because they are the only ones it applies to according to VW. That obviously leaves a ton of gray area and it doesn't make much sense.
I was only referring to the technical aspect of safely using an occasional tank of B11 or B20. You are correct however regarding Volkswagen's stance on it. This is their nuanced response to my question about what to do when travelling through Illinois:
Fueling your Clean Diesel Jetta should be carefree, and I appreciate you reaching out to us inquiring about the biodiesel letter we sent to Illinois residents. This particular letter you are referring to is targeted for registered owners in the state of Illinois and is only applicable to these customers.
Your Jetta is currently approved to run on a B5 blend of bio-diesel. We realize that individual states are increasing their approved bio-diesel concentrations, and I regret this is making it difficult for some customers to locate a labeled bio-diesel blend of 5%. You can locate biodiesel fuel stations and their concentrations here: http://www.nearbio.com/. Please know we are currently researching the use of higher blends in our vehicles.
We stand behind our products and our customers, and we understand this is a delicate situation. Please be assured, Volkswagen will do everything possible to work with you should a repair need arise. For your reference, I have attached to this email a copy of Volkswagen’s Biodiesel Statement along with a biodiesel brochure. I hope you find this information helpful.
We recognize the many years you have devoted to our brand, and we appreciate you as a loyal member of our Volkswagen family. If I can be of further assistance, you are welcome to reply to this email.
 

Lightflyer1

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Joined
Sep 13, 2005
Location
Round Rock, Texas
TDI
2015 Beetle tdi dsg
That link is all but useless. It only list 5 or so stations in the Austin, Texas area and only 2 of them are B5 or less. There are probably hundreds of stations here that are D2 or B5 or less.
 

kjclow

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Joined
Apr 26, 2003
Location
Charlotte, NC
TDI
2010 JSW TDI silver and black. 2017 Ram Ecodiesel dark red with brown and beige interior.
That link is all but useless. It only list 5 or so stations in the Austin, Texas area and only 2 of them are B5 or less. There are probably hundreds of stations here that are D2 or B5 or less.
It didn't list the Loves that is about 4 miles from my house either.
 

tditom

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Joined
Sep 5, 2001
Location
Jackson, MI
TDI
formerly: 2001 Golf GL, '97 Passat (RIP) '98 NB, '05 B5 sedan
This is such a crock:
... This particular letter you are referring to is targeted for registered owners in the state of Illinois and is only applicable to these customers.....
A word of warning-
...
We stand behind our ... customers, and we understand this is a delicate situation. ...
:eek: Don't let them stand behind you!!
 
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dzcad90

Rolex & gin
Joined
Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
In Illinois, I fully expect that any pump not labeled B5-20 may be dispensing B11 anyway. Really, do you trust the guy who barely wants to speak to you behind 2" bulletproof glass to have appropriate labeling on his pumps at all times? I sure don't.

I've been filling up at the same BP since I started driving TDIs 15 years ago and their pumps are not labeled B11. Their fuel product looks exactly like what I get from other stations when out and about and in need of fuel. I know you can't tell a WHOLE lot about Diesel by its looks, but what you can tell is some of the pumps in Illinois at big name oil companies (Shekk, Exxon, etc...) sometimes have a small "This is not a Shell product" sticker somewhere hanging out. They're Probably buying their diesel gpfrommthw same place a majority of other stations are.
 

eddieleephd

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Location
Battle Ground, Wa
TDI
2002 jetta Wagon
I believe the issue with the biodiesel in the VW is solely due to the injection pump.

Any quantities greater than 5% swell the seals in the pump and then they wear that way. Based on warranty factors I would not recommend the greater % bio.
However, if you are out of warranty then you must remember to run the same % of bio or risk leaking IP.

The greatest warning there is so far as I know is that if you take a trip many places may not have the higher % bio fuels available. This would force you to run lower levels and likely cause the IP to leak.
 

Diesl

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Chicago
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'78 Golf Diesel (long gone); 2012 Jetta Sportwagen TDI w/ DSG
No no no. But this has been discussed. For the CR (2009+) TDIs the problem is motor oil dilution due to post injection washdown, due to the higher boiling point of biodiesel. VW allows up to 20% biodiesel, but tells you to watch your oil level.

And why is this thread coming back now?
 

jerryfreak

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Nor Cal
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02 Jetta GLS sedan @295K, 99 Jetta sedan 275k,. 2015 tdi sedan, 105k
reseal ALH pump with newer bosch kit (pn 2 467 010 003) for permanent fix for IP leaks
 
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