www.tdiclub.com

Economy - Longevity - Performance
The #1 Source of TDI Information on the Web!
Forums Articles Links Meets
Orders TDI Club Cards TDIFest 2016 Gone, but not forgotten VAG-Com List Unit Conversions TDIClub Chat Thank You




Go Back   TDIClub Forums > VW TDI Discussion Areas > Fuels & Lubricants

Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 30th, 2017, 05:59   #31
jimbote
 
jimbote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
Fuel Economy: golf=38-43mpg...tacoma tdi=29-33mpg
Default

it seems the conclusion of linked article was that most deposits in the nozzle orifices were the result of soot coagulation around zinc particles and that zinc, in this case, was mostly delivered by the fuel itself... the engines tested were running zinc free lubrication to control for this
__________________
'You know what? This is a business.' So, now, I just keep my mouth shut and pet my chihuahuas." Mickey Rourke
jimbote is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2017, 06:44   #32
jmodge
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Greenville, MI
Default

As far as heat in the head goes, I once bought hardened seats from, If my memory serves, Baisley High Performance in Oregon. I installed them in my Shovelhead.
The seats were about .003 oversized, per instruction, heated the head to 350 in the oven and pulled seats with a slide hammer and large pipe taps with nuts welded on them, reheated the head and pressed the new seats in.
Not completely relevant here, but food for thought as far as temps go in an aluminum head.
Air cooled engine, the seats came out and went back in at 350 with no problem and stayed there through many a severe beating. So they picked that 350 degree temp for a reason. But I guess that doesn't mean the steel doesn't get hotter.
__________________
The more I find to learn, I find there's more to learn
jmodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2017, 09:31   #33
jmodge
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Greenville, MI
Default

Realizing I did not read the whole post, but commented anyway, I decided to go back. Interesting subject. I don't think that 400 degree fuel temp "in the injector" to be impossible. Not saying it so, just not unreasonable.

Think heat from "absorption" not "compression(plus added to compression).

Then, the fact that it does take considerably less BTU's and time to heat liquid than air.

The head itself is cooled by liquid, btu absorption again. But the injector, which should be affected by combustion temps, would not cool as quickly because it is cooled more by air, which has a slower thermal transfer than liquid.

So, take it as it is, just one High School educated (or uneducated) hillbilly's theory. What do think? Hit me!

Still no data, just theory and an angle to think about.

I imagine even though this 400 degree heated fuel is going to be burned, some of the heat gets absorbed back toward the pump. Now I understand the fuel cooler on the ALH auto trans. Bigger pump, smaller injector nozzle, more heated fuel returning to the tank.
__________________
The more I find to learn, I find there's more to learn
jmodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2017, 14:42   #34
jimbote
 
jimbote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
Fuel Economy: golf=38-43mpg...tacoma tdi=29-33mpg
Default

the injector has a very tight thermal sink to the head via a copper washer at the base of the nozzle tip so i would think much of the combustion heat introduced into the tip would be dissipated there but i could be wrong.... i'll check my vanagon injectors with an IR thermometer at full OT and see what the body temp is ... i suspect it won't be any hotter than the rest of the engine
__________________
'You know what? This is a business.' So, now, I just keep my mouth shut and pet my chihuahuas." Mickey Rourke
jimbote is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2017, 14:51   #35
Drivbiwire
Zehntes Jahr der Veteran
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Boise, Idaho
Fuel Economy: Who cares, it's a diesel!
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbote View Post
page 13 of above linked article very interesting, particular of note:
Increasing the RME share in the fuel had no influence of the formation of deposits.
RME = Rapeseed Methyl Ester This is NOT BIODIESEL aka SME or WVO.
__________________
Specializing in Injectors for CRI, CR, PD, VE, IDI VW, Audi, MB, SEAT and Skoda Diesel engines.
Offical Importer, Distributor and Installer for Fratelli Bosio, S.R.L. North America
Quotes and Pricing for TDI Injectors
Drivbiwire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2017, 15:29   #36
jmodge
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Greenville, MI
Default

... i'll check my vanagon injectors with an IR thermometer at full OT and see what the body temp is .

Same thought crossed my mind.

We have a lot of aftertreatment system failures in our fleet. The topic of a maintenance program came up Friday. A local company in Casnovia MI has product and tooling we are going to employ. I will follow up when I can.
__________________
The more I find to learn, I find there's more to learn
jmodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2017, 15:52   #37
MichaelB
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Just North of Milwaukee WI
Fuel Economy: 46-48 mpg ave. Warm weather 38-42 cold weather. 35-38 extreme cold.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivbiwire View Post
RME = Rapeseed Methyl Ester This is NOT BIODIESEL aka SME or WVO.
Please educate the ignorant, please! If SME Soy Methyl Ester is biodiesel, CME (corn) is biodiesel and Biodiesel produced from tallow (animal fats) is biodiesel why is RME (Canola oil)not Biodiesel? Are you confusing WVO a non-transesterified product with biodiesel

Last edited by MichaelB; July 30th, 2017 at 20:16.
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 30th, 2017, 16:56   #38
jimbote
 
jimbote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
Fuel Economy: golf=38-43mpg...tacoma tdi=29-33mpg
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drivbiwire View Post
RME = Rapeseed Methyl Ester This is NOT BIODIESEL aka SME or WVO.
RME certainly falls well under the umbrella of "biodiesel" as it's base stock is a SEED OIL transesterified into a diesel fuel ... please share your logic or analysis as to why it's not a bio-fuel
__________________
'You know what? This is a business.' So, now, I just keep my mouth shut and pet my chihuahuas." Mickey Rourke
jimbote is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2017, 19:01   #39
PD Rig
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Default

Biodiesel - extraction of vegetable oils, with or without esterification, from the seeds of plants like soybean, rape (canola) and sunflower.

A snip from a department of energy site. I just wanted to throw that out there for the sake of contribution this thread as I have taken interest. Not for the sake of argument. If I understand correctly I believe all the above are generation one biodiesel at whatever blend/concentration. I also read that the commercially available biodiesel at the pumpis by and large soy bean bio in the US. (Gen 1) and that rapeseed bio ( also gen) is commercially available by and large in Europe. Article/s I found are a year or more old. might be that the US has since started using rape seed. Anyone that has come across an informative read that is current please share.

gen 2 biodiesel is made by a different process called lignocellulosic and is derived from base stocks that are not for human consumption. Does not really provide a list anywhere saying exactly what these basestocks are, just that they are not forchuman consumption. I believe third generation is from algae. I forget where I read it but I saw somewhere around that gen 2 biofuels will cause less issues than gen 1 fuels. Maybe because they hold up to the thermal degradation? I can't find anywhere that indicates where gen 2 bio fuels are commercially available or if they are better than gen 1Would like to read more on the subject, but nothing I have found really dives in deep. If I can't see the for spent through the trees, post a link.
PD Rig is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2017, 19:47   #40
StayPuff
Veteran Member
 
StayPuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Northern IL
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by New Mickey View Post
VW doesn't recommend any additives because they recommend top quality, clean, water-free fuel. If that's all you use then you don't need additives.
Additives are intended to deal with the real world, not lab conditions.
I don't generally use any. All stations that sell diesel go through a lot of it around here. Lots of diesel pickups. 3 or 4 times a year I buy a big bottle of PS "white". Usually in the winter.
-mickey
Exactly. Putting additives in your tank, unless to combat gelling in extreme temps, is a waste of money....and i know that offends some people, but it's the truth. However, if it makes you feel more comfortable doing it then by all means continue.

I have been in the fuel business for 14 years now, and we have done extensive tests on different brands of additives, since we put additives in the diesel blends for the fuel stations in the winter. We found PS to be nearly worthless. I only use an additive in my own diesel tanks when the temp drops under -20, and that is Heet brand Diesel Treat.

On the subject of canola fuel, it most certainly is bio diesel. We currently use canola b100 or a blend of b100 with canola most of the time now in our diesel blends.....which is b20 right now, unless a customer requests differently. It's great fuel, but much darker yellow than others.
StayPuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 31st, 2017, 21:38   #41
MichaelB
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Just North of Milwaukee WI
Fuel Economy: 46-48 mpg ave. Warm weather 38-42 cold weather. 35-38 extreme cold.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by StayPuff View Post
Exactly. Putting additives in your tank, unless to combat gelling in extreme temps, is a waste of money....and i know that offends some people, but it's the truth. However, if it makes you feel more comfortable doing it then by all means continue.

I only use an additive in my own diesel tanks when the temp drops under -20, and that is Heet brand Diesel Treat.
What in your educated opinion makes Heat brand Diesel Treat stand out above all the others?
MichaelB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are these issues related? fruitcakesa TDI 101 20 December 24th, 2016 17:45
Several electrical issues, may or may not be related. Sbeghan VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 22 February 6th, 2016 18:15
Are these electrical issues related? nicole'sjetta VW MKIV-A4 TDIs (VE and PD) 2 January 3rd, 2012 13:32
Asphaltene in Diesel Fuel Geomorph Fuels & Lubricants 22 March 5th, 2010 20:11
Four issues in a week - related? Blue_Hen_TDI TDI 101 2 May 15th, 2007 14:09


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:33.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright - TDIClub Online LTD - 2017
Contact Us | Privacy Statement | Forum Rules | Disclaimer
TDIClub Online Ltd (TDIClub.com) is not affiliated with the VWoA or VWAG and is supported by contributions from viewers like you.
1996 - 2017, All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.16134 seconds with 12 queries
[Output: 110.99 Kb. compressed to 94.88 Kb. by saving 16.11 Kb. (14.52%)]