How Rough Does Your TDI Start in the Cold?

I usually park in the garage, which might be 25F warmer than outside. I thought I'd do some cold weather testing and left it outside overnight where it got down to -3F this morning. (Hey, it's going to go down to -10F tonight!)

The engine started right up but ran really rough for maybe 20 seconds or so. Is this normal? Would replacing the glow plugs help? The car has 140k miles on the originals, but it did start right up. I can't see deficient plugs and afterglow probs with the car starting right up.

At -45 celsius the car knocks and rattles for about 2 mins. This is with the tdi heater plugged in all night. 20 seconds is normal for that temp. I wouldn't worry especially if you are having no problems getting it going.

Thanks! -45C... brrrrr. Makes me cold just thinking about it!

-25C in Ottawa this morning. Car outside all night not plugged in. Started no problem with one glow plug cycle but it idled rough for around 40 seconds.

Thanks. It is indeed balmy here in Albany, NY by comparison!

Makes me want to move further south.....-5 last night here....

It's rough when it is real cold. Sounds like a bunch of pots and pans clanking together. I was up in Maine at my mothers house a couple years ago and it was like 30 below. I thought my car was going to fall apart.

Just start driving it, it'll even out as the cylinder temps rise. And don't forget to take a nice deep breath of that sweet semi-burnt diesel smoke!

Yeah its definitely rough up here in Vermont when I first start the car when its as cold as it has been, but no more than 30-45 seconds of that obnoxious knocking before it smooths out.

I usually park in the garage, which might be 25F warmer than outside. I thought I'd do some cold weather testing and left it outside overnight where it got down to -3F this morning. (Hey, it's going to go down to -10F tonight!)

The engine started right up but ran really rough for maybe 20 seconds or so. Is this normal? Would replacing the glow plugs help? The car has 140k miles on the originals, but it did start right up. I can't see deficient plugs and afterglow probs with the car starting right up.

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I've come to expect an extremey rouch start with mine since new. Timing is bang on, everything checks out. Using 0w40 Synthetic.

Anything below 0/32 degress, cycle glowplugs 2 times, cranks anywhere from 5-20 seconds, fires and runs extremley rough for about 5 seconds then rough but acceptable for another 30 seconds or so with the occasional 'missing' sound.

In the summer or when it's warmer outside, no problems at all.

When I have the luxury of using my stick-on oil pan heater, the problem is completley resolved, even in -40 degree weather starting is smooth as silk. But unfortunatley in most instances i can't use the heater, so my poor engine suffers.

Here's a video... starting my 99.5 at 10* F
Mind my low bandwidth

-Jason

Starting isn't my problem. But my '01 Jetta idles rough at stops when it is cold weather.

My PD asounds like a powerstroke when its starts in below zero weather. But it always starts

It's rough when it is real cold. Sounds like a bunch of pots and pans clanking together. I was up in Maine at my mothers house a couple years ago and it was like 30 below. I thought my car was going to fall apart.

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LOL!!!!! Mine sounds the exact same way... I sit in the car and just hope and pray parts don't come flying through the hood Give her about 30-40 seconds and she'll calm down...

Somone else on the forums described the sound a cold TDI startup as if "a racoon was trapped in the engine with a metal spoon and was trying to get out".

Somone else on the forums described the sound a cold TDI startup as if "a racoon was trapped in the engine with a metal spoon and was trying to get out".

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hah, yeah.
I noticed if I let the glow plugs cycle once, turn the key, it wont start quick. if i turn back and then to ready to start again, and let them cycle again, they go good.

The cold sucks.

I've noticed the quality of fuel used makes a big difference. Starts faster, idles smoother, and smokes less on Amoco Premier. When I started it on Shell “premium” diesel, it cranked for a really long time and when it finally fired, it puffed out a huge cloud of smoke. Next tank I filled with AP and it started much better, very noticeable difference. Both fuels were started at –10 F. I’ve also noticed AP seems to vary from station to station for some reason

At about 5 F my car takes a good 10 seconds of cranking to get it going on its own. Timing is retarded though, falls between the middle line and the lower line on the TDI timing chart in vagcom. Its not a very happy car, and puts out a nice cloud of smoke to prove it.

Perhaps when it gets a little warmer we can try to advance it.

Fuel quality definitely makes a difference. Additives that provide Cetane boost may also help.

The glowplugs "afterglow" for about 10 seconds or so after the GP light goes out. No need to cycle them right after the GP light goes out. Just wait about 10-15 seconds after the light goes out before starting.

When temps are around 5*F or below, I do the following:
1. I get in the car but sit with the driver's door open so that the interior lights are still ON.
2. As I turn the key to "ON", I watch the lights above the mirror dim slightly. I know the glowplugs are really ON because of the drain on the battery.
3. After the GP light goes out, I continue watching the interior lights above my head until the GPs turn OFF about 10-15 seconds later. I can see the interior lights brighten up slightly when the GPs turn OFF.
4. Depending on how cold it is, I may repeat the process once.
5. Immediately after the GPs turn OFF, I turn the key to "Start" and it cranks and starts right up. It runs a little rough for about 10 seconds or so, but it always starts easily on the first try.

I've noticed in the bitter cold that if I crank it right after the GP light goes out, the engine cranks slower than if I wait until the GPs actually turn OFF. The extra load of the GPs on the battery while cranking the engine slows the cranking and makes for a harder and rougher start. The GPs also haven't had as much time to get fully hot, so they're not going to be as effective. It's easier on the battery and starter to wait a bit longer.

My battery is healthy and I'm not having any hard starting problems at all. My injection timing is right where it's supposed to be too. This is just a behavior that I've noticed in the bitter cold temps. I've found that waiting until the GPs finally turn OFF guarantees that the GPs are fully *HOT* and lightens the load on the battery during cranking. I've found in general that it starts almost as easily in the bitter cold as it does in the summer using this method, except for a slight roughness during the first 10 seconds or so of running.

Here's an idea for an easy mod I'm thinking about: I want to add an indicator light to the glowplug circuit so that I have a visual indication of when the GPs are actually ON. I won't need to watch the interior lights to dim slightly to tell when the GPs are ON. I want a REAL glowplug light instead of the light on the dash controlled by the ECU.

Just my $0.02 worth.


~ n1das

*snip* I want a REAL glowplug light instead of the light on the dash controlled by the ECU.

Just my $0.02 worth.


~ n1das

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wow, thank you! I'm going to try that tomorrow morning!

I agree. I would like a glow plug light that is actually useful. It's pathetic they did that. Just wiring it to tell the truth would have been better and probably easier. Oh well. It's probably so joe smo test driver in the winters says OH IT GOES QUICK LOL.

:/

While I agree that I would like the light to stay as long as the plugs are on, I think I know why they do this.

If you wait until after the plugs go off, say even 3-5 seconds it starts much harder. You better off trying to start with the plug on and hot rather then over shooting and having them go before cranking.

That’s my guess as to why the plugs stay on longer then the light.

At -10F it takes 2 cycles (20 sec. each) of the GPs to get it to fire and it runs rough for about 20 seconds.

If you have a volt-meter you can tell when the glow plugs finish glowing. As said above I wouldn't wait excessively longer after the GP light goes out, because you are losing cranking amps the longer the glow plugs are energized before starting. I think there is a "happy medium" between over-glowing and not glowing enough.

The good part about this post is that everyones car starts! Rough running or not, as long as it starts it's all good.

BTW - Related to a powerstroke...our 97 sounds like it's going to explode when below 0F. Keep in mind with these engines they take 14qts (over 3 gallons...a normal v8 will take 5-6qts) of oil per change...because not only is it for engine/turbo lubrication but the injection system is actually controlled by high-pressure oil (hence the need for 14 qts). So imagine how thick 5w-40 is below 0F, and having to not only crank the engine over in that molasses but also try to flow enough to fire the injectors!

I feel lucky below 0F only having 5qts or so of molasses (I mean oil!) in the Jetta to have to pump around inside the engine.

......There's FAR MORE retailers than refiners. This means that a GREAT MANY stations get their fuel from FROM THE SAME REFINERY.

I used to haul heavy fuel oil from the Mohawk Refinery in Bakersfield, CA Long Beach in the 1970's. I would watch all the trucks loading up diesel fuel and gasoline across the yard when I was loading up with #3 fuel oil. I saw EVERY brand name you could think of loading up with diesel and gasoline! I have a hard time believeing that one brand is different than another. I would say that just about all of them in an given area gets fuel from the same place....


The ASTM decides on standards for manufacturing fuel. All the refinerys follow these guidelines. There is a difference in gasoline from one area to another due to the emission requirments for the area but all the retailers must use the same fuel to meet those requirments.


The big difference is how much fuel a station will pass through their pumps and how often they replace their filters. Other than that, the difference is probably ZERO.


Cheers,


Rick

I've noticed the quality of fuel used makes a big difference. Starts faster, idles smoother, and smokes less on Amoco Premier. When I started it on Shell “premium” diesel, it cranked for a really long time and when it finally fired, it puffed out a huge cloud of smoke. Next tank I filled with AP and it started much better, very noticeable difference. Both fuels were started at –10 F. I’ve also noticed AP seems to vary from station to station for some reason

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I beleive the term is "marbles in the crankcase"

Mine starts fine, but I havne't had anything below about 15 F here.

But that's not why I posted. I'm just glad the politics thread is locked.

If Winter ever comes to Bend, Oregon again, I'll let you know about the cold starting.

Well, it's 10:00 PM and the thermometer reads -3.3 . The Beetle is in the driveway, so we'll see tomorrow AM.

I used to live in Oswego, which is in the snowbelt near Lake Ontario. All they talk about there is the snow.... even in the summer! I'm hearing all these super low numbers... -40, -42, an so on. Do you Canadians talk about how cold it gets there even in the summer?

Last time I did a really cold start was in Niskayuna. A few weeks ago it was down to -10 F. Don't like the engine knock myself. Dealer tells me that I don't need an Engine Warmer, and that it would void the warantee. This weekend a funny thing happen. Could not open the window to pay the toll for parking in the garage in Boston. Next morning I tried the window, and it fell down into the door. Well I can drive without a radio; and I can also drive with with some other minor problems, but at 5 F, with a missing window; that is a bit much. Took it to the Dealer. Well $125, is a bit much to fix the window. Asked about what I did to break the thing. "I did not wait for the window to warm up.?" VW keeps telling me that I don't need an Engine Warmer.

I don't Need to shell out $125 because the window is Frozen, and breaks.

Just can't figure this one out.

Just know that this will happen again. Would it be a good idea to have the Clips glued on with Epoxy?

PS. The radio is shot, died last week on the AM. $200 to fix the antenna. Never was any good anyway. Anyone have bad experience with Crutchfield? When the radio quit I stopped by the dealer to get the tools to look at the radio, to try and start to look at it. They won't sell me the tools to pull the radio.

Believe that I have all I need to install the 250 watt oil pan heater, in the car right now. Right down to the GFI outlet. Anyone have any ideas that I should look out for?

Last time I did a really cold start was in Niskayuna. A few weeks it was down to -10 F. Don't like the engine knock myself. Dealer tells me that I don't need an Engine Warmer, and that it would void the warantee. This weekend a funny thing happen. Could not open the window to pay the toll for parking in the garage in Boston. Next morning I tried the window, and it fell down into the door. Well I can drive without a radio; and I can also drive with with some other minor problems, but at 5 F, with a missing window; that is a bit much. Took it to the Dealer. Well $125, is a bit much to fix the window. Asked about what I did to break the thing. "I did not wait for the window to warm up.?" VW keeps telling me that I don't need an Engine Warmer.

I don't Need to shell out $125 because the window is Frozen, and breaks.

Just can't figure this one out.

Just know that this will happen again. Would it be a good idea to have the Clips glued on with Epoxy?

PS. The radio is shot, died last week on the AM. $200 to fix the antenna. Never was any good anyway. Anyone have bad experience with Crutchfield? When the radio quit I stopped by the dealer to get the tools to look at the radio, to try and start to look at it. They won't sell me the tools to pull the radio.

Believe that I have all I need to install the 250 watt oil pan heater, in the car right now. Right down to the GFI outlet. Anyone have any ideas that I should look out for?