Subaru Outback gasser vs TDI Wagon

What do you guys think of this vehicle. Here it the deal. We want something AWD, 5spd highly preferred, and a wagon for dog + kids(????). I got a new job,which means we will go back to being a 2 car family. At $4.25 diesel and $3.40 gas, 38 and 27 MPG respectively, diesel is still cheaper per mile on fuel, but not by much. The wagon will be wonderful on road trips. Do we NEED AWD? No. It will be nice in rain and snow. I believe my budget (around 6500) puts me out of the TDI wagon

If I have to have a gasser, I'd love awd and 5spd. I figure it's a trade off.

helloskyharbour said:

What do you guys think of this vehicle. Here it the deal. We want something AWD, 5spd highly preferred, and a wagon for dog + kids(????). I got a new job,which means we will go back to being a 2 car family. At $4.25 diesel and $3.40 gas, 38 and 27 MPG respectively, diesel is still cheaper per mile on fuel, but not by much. The wagon will be wonderful on road trips. Do we NEED AWD? No. It will be nice in rain and snow. I believe my budget (around 6500) puts me out of the TDI wagon

If I have to have a gasser, I'd love awd and 5spd. I figure it's a trade off.

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The 5spd Sube is noted for clutch chatter. At 27mpg, that's the top end for the Sube and a TDI should do better than 38. You're likley to get a better Sube than TDI for $6500. Beginning in 2000, the Sube engine is single cam and non interference. AWD is nice, but you still gotta have good tires. Tires for the season will negate most of the perceived need for AWD. The Sube is a very good car, however. Timing belt interval on the Sube is 105k from 2000.

Guess I should chime in as I own both a 98 Scoobie Outback and a newly aquired 01 Jetta TDi. Love them both. I regularly achieve 25mpg with the Scoobie (27mpg being best) and a range of about 350 to 400 miles to the tank. The Jetta is just completing its first tank - we have 600 miles on it right now.

To summarize - a 10mpg difference between cars is a wash in the diesel vs gas comparison give about $1 / gallon differnce in price. Get the best car you can afford. However, the Jetta is getting close to 45 mpg or better. It's definately the choice if distance is a criteria. If its space / size - the Scoobie wins hands down.

Want some good news?! In 09 Scoobie plans in importing a TDI rated to give high 40's mpg! You could get both next year!

I drive a TDI but 'redo' a decent amount of Suby's. Infact I'm putting an engine on a 97 Impreza tomorrow.

I don't have any knowledge of 2000 and up. I do mostly 97-99 - the years with bad headgaskets on the 2.5 and they were interference.

The 2.2's - some years are interference and some not. The 2.2's are pretty bullet proof.

There is a fella that redoes Subaru Outbacks in the Philly area. Often we put 2.2's inplace of the 2.5's. Pass emmissions, little better mileage, much more dependable engine.

FYI my GF got 28-29 in her 96 Impreza and her new 2006 Impreza. The 96 was totalled for the second time (and hitting 8 deer) at 240k and was still running strong. Gotta love the horizonatlly opposed thing - just like the old VW air-cooled's. Can't wait on the Subaru Boxer AWD diesel - I may actually give up my TDI.

PM me if you'd like the contact info for the guy in Philly. I think he just finished one of the fancy Outbacks with sunroof's and stuff.


Dave

What does interfgerence mean? I have heard about the bad HG all the way up to 2002 model year. Also have heard that Subaru was paying for 50% of the repairs on them up to 100k miles(?). One car, I was ready to buy. 02 Outback 5spd with 100k miles, meticulous maintenance records showing timing belt and HG had been replaced and that Subaru paid 800 bucks towards the job.
Turned out when I went to look at it it was already sold on Ebay

Interference means when the TB breaks something hits. On the late 90's 2.5 Suby heads the valves can hit each other, and I think the piston as well.

If the HG's have already been done with redesigned Suby head gaskets you're fine. Look for timing belt being done and lots of times folks get cheap and don't replace the idler pulleys. I buy a decent amount of Suby's where one of these idler pulleys bearings go bad and then the TB gets messed up. The labor on the TB job is about the same with replacing the idler's and possibly the tensioner but probably adds about 300 in parts.

I usually buy and repair high mileage cars - 110 to 200k. If they don't rust out and the HG and TB is addressed they seem to run forever.

Make some tight turns checking for torque bind in the AWD. About the only other expensive and somewhat common repair needed. Usually due to not rotating tires and the circumference gets to be different between the front and back tires and causes AWD to kick in when not needed and will eventually gald a clutch pack in the back of the tranny to gald together.

Dave

I own both a TDI and a Subi. We bought our Subi with 8 miles on it and it now has 140k and still going strong. Like has been said before make sure you get timing belt work done. I havedone mine. Really eazy to do. The hardest part is to make sure both cams are on there timming marks (need a mirror to see really good) Takes about 5 hrs start to finish.

As far as the AWD I find it is something that I can not live without, since the wife drives it most of the time (she needs all the help she can get ), and we get some big snow in Cincy.

Older Subis also have auto problems. I think this was taken care of by model year 2001. Go standard anyway. You really get to feel the AWD while in the corners

I bought a 2001 Golf GL TDI brand new back in '01. I sold it at 80k because I got a great deal on a 2003 Outback 5spd wagon with 30k miles. I drove the Outback maybe 10k miles in 6 months bofore trading it in on my current '02 Jetta TDI.

Pros of the Subaru: lots of cargo space, good firm handling either on back roads or the highway. The heated wiper "parking area" on the windshield was handy in the winter.

Cons of the Subaru: got 28mpg ONCE on an all highway road trip with no A/C. Mileage was more often 22-25. Needed to drop down to 4th quite often on the interstate. Not enough leg room in the front. I'm only 5'11" and needed another inch or two of leg room to be comfortable. (I can put the seat all the way back in the Jetta and can't put the clutch to the floor). Really stinky exhaust. Very uncomfortable seats--a 2 hour road trip would lead to a really sore lower back, and I was only 28 when I bought the car.

AWD can be a good thing. BUT, it's called All Wheel DRIVE for a reason: it doesn't help with stopping or cornering in snow, espcially if you only have all season tires on it. With decent Hakks or Blizzaks, a Subaru is probably really good in snow. I have a 2nd set of rims with Hankook snows for the Jetta, and I've never been stuck with it.

helloskyharbour said:

Do we NEED AWD? No. It will be nice in rain and snow. I believe my budget (around 6500) puts me out of the TDI wagon

If I have to have a gasser, I'd love awd and 5spd. I figure it's a trade off.

Click to expand...

Regarding AWD vs FWD: in my opinion, unless you live above 5000' above MSL, or live where there is lake-effect snow on a regular basis, you probably don't need AWD. 90% of folks with an AWD vehicle don't really need it. But they want it because it's cool.

Unfortunately it means they buy a 6-cylinder engine at least, instead of a four; it means they wear out tires quicker and replace four at a time instead of two; and it means they haul around a couple hundred pounds of extra mechanical stuff that lowers their fuel economy and sometimes breaks.

I can't tell you to buy a Jetta TDI wagon instead, because they are hard to find and cost a lot. But there must be something in your price range besides these two choices.

I think the TDI would be great in the snow if it just had limited slip. I've only been stuck a couple of times with mine, and it was only the last time that it probably would have driven out had it a limited slip--stuck in some frozen ruts, one drive wheel on ice. Usually it's stuck 'cuz it's high-ended.

we have a 98 outback wagon,one tdi jetta 02, 20 mpg is what it's going to cost you extra to run a subaru,(24 to 27mpg) you could wait a few years till you can buy a diesel subaru in the US. A good set of snow tires on a tdi will get you where you need to go,,