Lightflyer1
Top Post Dawg
For those of us dumb as rocks on this stuff, what exactly is happening here? A new pump? What car is this in?
Commonrail: Need more fuel
- Thread starter storx
- Start date
It's a new pump, the CP4.2 in place of the stock CP4.1. I think the biggest question for many is, what's the reliability difference between the .1 and .2? Would this alleviate pump failure concerns with the added benefit of more fuel than most could ever need?
Amazing work none the less. Maybe this will be the answer many have been hoping for.
Amazing work none the less. Maybe this will be the answer many have been hoping for.
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DieselDubs83
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
- Location
- Mount Pleasant Mills, PA
- TDI
- 2002 Jetta GLS 5spd, 2005 Passat BHW, 82 Caddy TDI
This is the cp4.2 pump in a 2010 JSW.
DieselDubs83
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
- Location
- Mount Pleasant Mills, PA
- TDI
- 2002 Jetta GLS 5spd, 2005 Passat BHW, 82 Caddy TDI
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
You need to graph those.
kyle_h
Veteran Member
Sub'ed
Sent from my iPhone using the Tapatalk app, so that explains the typos...
Sent from my iPhone using the Tapatalk app, so that explains the typos...
DieselDubs83
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
- Location
- Mount Pleasant Mills, PA
- TDI
- 2002 Jetta GLS 5spd, 2005 Passat BHW, 82 Caddy TDI
Quick update. Everything has been running good on the car so far. We are tweaking the bends on the lines a bit to fit better with all OEM brackets.
kyle_h
Veteran Member
Damn she's got the juice now eh
DieselDubs83
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
- Location
- Mount Pleasant Mills, PA
- TDI
- 2002 Jetta GLS 5spd, 2005 Passat BHW, 82 Caddy TDI
Yeah.....no lack in fueling at all!!!!!!
LovinPSDs
Veteran Member
Are you guys planning on offering the lines and such as a kit? This is awesome for anyone who really wants to go big! I'm not sure if I want to be on the leading edge of testing products again, but this really makes me smile
I wonder about reliability and such for people running say a stage 2 or 3+ tune. This pump probably doesn't have to work nearly as hard to supply the required fuel.
So teach me something about these injectors. Piezoelectric yeah? Can they supply more fuel than we'd ever need or would the injectors need modded for big time fuel?
Id also love to hear how your DSG is handling the power, and if/when it can't take it, is there anyway to build them stouter?
I wonder about reliability and such for people running say a stage 2 or 3+ tune. This pump probably doesn't have to work nearly as hard to supply the required fuel.
So teach me something about these injectors. Piezoelectric yeah? Can they supply more fuel than we'd ever need or would the injectors need modded for big time fuel?
Id also love to hear how your DSG is handling the power, and if/when it can't take it, is there anyway to build them stouter?
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got some pics?
As for the DSG. there is quite some hardware available with as downside thats it is costly..
the guys from HGP in gemany put over 900Nm through it (7 speed box). And this is in germay which means people also use the power =)
As for the DSG. there is quite some hardware available with as downside thats it is costly..
the guys from HGP in gemany put over 900Nm through it (7 speed box). And this is in germay which means people also use the power =)
LovinPSDs
Veteran Member
The CP4.2 is the pump that comes in the 3.0 TDI Audi offers, is that correct?
Dirtracr95
Veteran Member
Looking forward to this. Cant wait to see some serious compounds once this is released. Thats what ill be looking to do.
kyle_h
Veteran Member
3.0 touareg must be the same as the Audi one.
Is the plan to offer this pump with a retro fit kit sometime in the future??
DieselDubs83
Vendor , w/Business number
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2011
- Location
- Mount Pleasant Mills, PA
- TDI
- 2002 Jetta GLS 5spd, 2005 Passat BHW, 82 Caddy TDI
Yes once we get the components fitment perfected it will be a bolt-on plug-n-play upgrade.Is the plan to offer this pump with a retro fit kit sometime in the future??
Very cool! I believe you will sell a lot of them
LovinPSDs
Veteran Member
DieselDubs, I noticed you had injectors in your car. This is the first time I've seen this mentioned on a CR. Do you know how far the stock injectors can take us HP wise assuming the HPFP is upgraded? I really what to know the limits of the stock injectors. I thought someone said Storx was up in the 250 hp range and was losing rail pressure, so I'm assuming north of that... Awesome work preparing a bolt in upgrade also!
LNXGUY
Top Post Dawg
Same engine.
2011tdiproject
Veteran Member
This is very cool, and I suspected it was possible. However, I am still trying to comprehend how it all works.
With those piston type pumps, you only really have pressure in the rail as the piston is coming up, right? Since there is no way to accumulate that pressure?
If the pressure does accumulate somehow, then ignore the rest of this post..
Way I understand it the cp4.1 has to be timed via the belt like a cam. So every 180 degrees the piston is coming up, with the 2 cam lobes moving it, right? Since it is a 4 cyl motor with firing impulses every 180 deg. Then with the cp4.2 and the 3.0 tdi V6, it must be timed so each piston in the pump comes up every 120 degrees of crankshaft rotation?
This is giving me a headache thinking about it, but basically I'm just thinking with the 4 cyl tdi, if each (main) injection even occurs 180 apart, what good does that other piston in the pump coming up 90 degrees later do? Since the injectors wouldn't be spraying then, and there is nowhere for that pressure to accumulate. (right? I mean, the injectors don't spray at 90deg past tdc, do they? You have the initial pilot injection, then one or several main injections, I'm guessing less than 30 degrees after tdc?) I know the dual CP3 kits for the duramax run off a serpentine belt and therefore aren't timed, but that is a motor with firing impulses every 90 deg, I'm guessing they overlap well enough?
With those piston type pumps, you only really have pressure in the rail as the piston is coming up, right? Since there is no way to accumulate that pressure?
If the pressure does accumulate somehow, then ignore the rest of this post..
Way I understand it the cp4.1 has to be timed via the belt like a cam. So every 180 degrees the piston is coming up, with the 2 cam lobes moving it, right? Since it is a 4 cyl motor with firing impulses every 180 deg. Then with the cp4.2 and the 3.0 tdi V6, it must be timed so each piston in the pump comes up every 120 degrees of crankshaft rotation?
This is giving me a headache thinking about it, but basically I'm just thinking with the 4 cyl tdi, if each (main) injection even occurs 180 apart, what good does that other piston in the pump coming up 90 degrees later do? Since the injectors wouldn't be spraying then, and there is nowhere for that pressure to accumulate. (right? I mean, the injectors don't spray at 90deg past tdc, do they? You have the initial pilot injection, then one or several main injections, I'm guessing less than 30 degrees after tdc?) I know the dual CP3 kits for the duramax run off a serpentine belt and therefore aren't timed, but that is a motor with firing impulses every 90 deg, I'm guessing they overlap well enough?
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bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
The rail acts as a pressure accumulator of sorts.
LovinPSDs
Veteran Member
And the pump doesn't need to be timed with the injection series right? I've not heard of timing the pump(s) before...
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
The HPFP is pinned during timing belt jobs, so VW likely wants the pressure pulses to coincide with injection demands, but it's not as critical as it was in, say, the VE days.
2011tdiproject
Veteran Member
How does the rail act "as a pressure accumulator of sorts"? Does it have something that compresses inside of it? Fluid is not compressible and I do not see the rail itself having anywhere near enough "elasticity" to accumulate pressure at all.
I bet if you timed the oem pump the opposite way, the motor would not run at all. I could be wrong, but I'd bet $100 on that. Lol
Edit: I just read the timing belt replacement how to on myturbodiesel and at the end of the write up, a guy was saying his motor wouldn't start because the hpfp timing was off. Copied and pasted, "The fuel timing was off. It must have slipped when tightening the bolts. I made a counter hold for the camshaft but didn't have one for the HpFp. I rigged something that worked as a counter hold and it stayed in place."
I bet if you timed the oem pump the opposite way, the motor would not run at all. I could be wrong, but I'd bet $100 on that. Lol
Edit: I just read the timing belt replacement how to on myturbodiesel and at the end of the write up, a guy was saying his motor wouldn't start because the hpfp timing was off. Copied and pasted, "The fuel timing was off. It must have slipped when tightening the bolts. I made a counter hold for the camshaft but didn't have one for the HpFp. I rigged something that worked as a counter hold and it stayed in place."
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Dirtracr95
Veteran Member
Ill take your $100 dollar bet. Ill PM you my paypal so you can just send me your money now.
The common rail diesels have the same basic plumbing as any gas fuel injected engine. The HPFP does not have to be timed at all to the engine. My guess for pinning the pulley is to not have additional pullies moving when installing the timing belt.
bhtooefr
TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
I would guess that somewhere, there is a compression element, seeing as Bosch does refer to the fuel rails in common rail diesel systems as pressure accumulators...
Dirtracr95
Veteran Member
It works the same way a hydraulic circuit works on trucks. The pump produces flow, a restriction in the flow produces pressure. Pressure is controlled by PWM from the PCM through a solenoid.
Pressure doesn't mean the fluid has to compress. Pressure is a measurement of force. In our case here pounds per square inch (PSI)