swapping an mkIV in an mkIII

JohhnyQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Location
Montreal
I have a Jetta tdi setup in my Golf that I am thinking of selling and installing a 2001 tdi engine in its place. I may have sourced a complete engine with ecu, wiring and all the goodies. My question is, is it worth it?

From what I understand, the mkIV engine is more easily tuned and responds much better to mods than the mkIII tdi, and also has better fuel economy. Even though my engine has 86,000kms, on it, the engine I sourced has 15k kms.

What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks!
 

Rammstein

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 3, 2002
Location
Québec city baby, Canada
TDI
Golf 92 D
Hey Mike, whassup.

Keep the 98 engine in there, better IMO.

The water pump is not moved by the timing belt, your maf will last, your turbo won't blow.

The ALH are a PITA.

If you only have 86 000 km on your 98 engine, it's not broken in yet.

I advise you to not do the swap, you'll regret it.

If tuned right a 1Z or AHU will make the exact same numbers as the newer engines.

Don't cause yourself headaches if you don't have to.

Come say hi on the Quebec forum that I moderate!
 

Peter Cheuk

Gasser :P
Joined
Aug 31, 1998
Location
Daly City, Calif., USA
TDI
'06 Jetta GLI
If tuned right a 1Z or AHU will make the exact same numbers as the newer engines.
I agree with everything said except this line. Typically, a 1Z or AHU makes a few HP less with the same mods on a ALH. Also, according to Diesel Des, the 1Z and AHU engines have a lower maximum attainable HP from mods before things start failing from the pressure: the pistons can crack or the head gasket will blow when you exceed 130HP on a 1Z; the head gasket will blow when you exceed 140HP on an AHU; the ALH can go to about 150HP before the rods start to be a concern.
 

mojogoes

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
england
TDI
mk3 tdi golf
Peter got to disagree with you about the 1Z blowing h/gts at 130hp, i've had over 140hp for over 2 years and still to blow my head/g and at over 170whp to bend rods but i'm not saying i won't.
 

Radman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 13, 2001
Location
Montreal
TDI
2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
Dont forget all the mounts and intake are different on the A4. If your are taking the motor only it will fit with some tweaking. But I dont think it is worth the effort. There are many A3's putting out major horsepower with no problems.
 

Radman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 13, 2001
Location
Montreal
TDI
2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
Thats right, hes running at least 23psi, 12mm pump and .216 nozzles. Thats why I say its not worth the trouble to change the engine. I think you will end up with more problems.
 

JohhnyQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Location
Montreal
Funny, it isnt the first time I write a reply in a thread and it's nowhere to be found! Oh well, here I go again!

Guys, thanks for the replies. I guess I was just discouraged after seeing the results of the same mods I have on my car, being done on MKIV's with better results and less smoke too.
I had found someone who wanted to buy my engine for the same price I found an MKIV setup, and the install isnt a problem, engine swaps is my occupation.

BUT, I trust your opinions greatly, and I have faith that with your help, I can get my engine to be the way I want.

Right now, with the mods listed below (and 19 psi), the car smokes pretty badly, and I'm sure doesnt make more than 125 hp, with lotsa torque at around 2000 but quickly dying out at 3800 or so. I have never played with the hammer mod or IQ settings, as I never was able to get my hands on the OBDII harness to connect in my car.

Anyway, do you guys think I can get similar power to Smogs car with my A3 setup? I would be happy with 150hp and 250 lb/ft of torque.
Thanks
Mike
 

Peter Cheuk

Gasser :P
Joined
Aug 31, 1998
Location
Daly City, Calif., USA
TDI
'06 Jetta GLI
Isn't Dieselmork running an A3 with like 22psi???? Havn't heard of him having any major problems.
That's funny, the last thing I heard about his car is that he blew a head gasket. Kind of matches what I said earlier.

Mike, which Ups chip do you have? I have an AHU engine with Upsolute Stage II, PP764 nozzles in A4 holders. When I had Ups Stage I and Bosch .205 nozzles my power band was as you described except that I was able to tune the smoke out with VAG-COM. The higher pilot injection pressure of the A4 holders really helps reduce smoke and gives a slight bump in power (SOTP). With my current setup the peak torque is less but the overall power is much better! I can wind the engine out to redline and not feel like the engine is chugging along gasping for air. I did have to fine-tune the IQ to get these results, though.
 

Radman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 13, 2001
Location
Montreal
TDI
2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
Miker,

Your problem is most likely the UPsolute chip. Be it A3 or A4 they all smoke with larger nozzles with the base UPsolute chip. And yes all the power is at 2000RPM with that chip also. Come to the Julep tonite for our regular tuesday nite meets and we acn look at you car to see if anything else could be wrong. Diezel Mork is ususally there. I was not aware of his gasket troubles
With the power he is outputting its not surprising he blew a gasket. I estimate he has as much or more than Smog has.
 

JohhnyQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Location
Montreal
Peter, do you have the part number for the A4 holders? Do you think they would help in my situation?

Radman, I wish I could make it tonight, but I am planning on going to Napierville with my other car. Unless it rains, I can't come to the Julep. Will you be there next Tuesday?
Is there another program for my engine from Upsolute? Do you know if they will charge me full price again?

Thanks guys!
Mike
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
The A4 holders pop at 220 bar, the early A3 and B4 holders pop at 190 bar. This CAN be adjusted, though. If you go to a competent diesel repair shop, they should be able to install shims which will get your injector pressures up. I have heard of some putting thiers up to 230 bar. This will give you slightly less smoke.

It IS true, that the A4s tend to give a little more power at the wheels than the A3s, with less smoke in fact. It is also true that your Ups chip might be the cause of your smoke. I hate to sound like I am putting down a company, as their chips DO make a lot of power...but I do also find that people who have their chips smoke more. Unitronics is in Montreal I think, and they can make a completely custom chip for your setup. That would probably be less headache than an engine swap. Remember, other than the engine, everything else is reversed in the MKIV. (well, other than battery) It has been done, but WILL take a lot of work.
 

VWannabe

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 2, 1999
Location
Lawrenceville, GA USA
This swap has been done by somebody who used to be on these boards. I don't know if he is still here. They used the MKIV engine block and internals, but used the intake and exhaust setup of the MKIII, as well as the A3 ECU. If you are determined to do it, this might be the best and easiest setup.
 

Dizel Mork

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
Jetta, 1999, midnight blue
I am having head gasket troubles right now. but i was pushing way more than 22psi at the time...more like 30psi, wanted to compare my turbo and lag with others...no lag what-so-ever (well not noticible when driving, only on vag-com there seems to be a little bit)
I tryed to lower the compression with gaskets and it was too much and was hard to start. (would only get 450psi compression after 8 cranks)
I'll put it back stock, lower the turbo *for now*
and check on porting the head with valve job.
 

Radman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 13, 2001
Location
Montreal
TDI
2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
Peter, do you have the part number for the A4 holders? Do you think they would help in my situation?

Radman, I wish I could make it tonight, but I am planning on going to Napierville with my other car. Unless it rains, I can't come to the Julep. Will you be there next Tuesday?
Is there another program for my engine from Upsolute? Do you know if they will charge me full price again?

Thanks guys!
Mike
I should be there next week. I also have some A4 holders I could sell you if required. Did you get my PM regarding your pump

I will also be at Trac Racing's Dyno tomorrow nite at the St-Eustache Autodrome Race Trac. MikeZ from Unitronics will by Dynoing his 1.8T
 

20ValveT

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Location
Canada
I am having head gasket troubles right now. but i was pushing way more than 22psi at the time...more like 30psi, wanted to compare my turbo and lag with others...no lag what-so-ever (well not noticible when driving, only on vag-com there seems to be a little bit)
I tryed to lower the compression with gaskets and it was too much and was hard to start. (would only get 450psi compression after 8 cranks)
I'll put it back stock, lower the turbo *for now*
and check on porting the head with valve job.
Wow
30 psi, damn thats enough to blow more than the head gasket.

Hey Dizelmork did you ever get your car up to the track???
 

Dizel Mork

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2000
Location
Montreal, Canada
TDI
Jetta, 1999, midnight blue
Never went to a track, i get too much wheel spin when starting from 0. But once i'm rolling or if i have enough room to catch up from the wheelspinning its a real monster..lol
 

JohhnyQ

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2000
Location
Montreal
Radman, How much would you sell me the holders for? If you think they'll help I'll try them out.
I actually did reply to your pm, sorry the pump is sold!

What chip do you guys recommend if I am upgrading the turbo? I wish I could keep my Upsolute, but if it's the cause of my smoke problems and limiting my power, I'll change it.
 

Radman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 13, 2001
Location
Montreal
TDI
2014 Audi A6 TDI, 2014 Touareg TDI
Unitronic is local here in Montreal and will make a custom chip to match your mods. www.unitronic.ca Speak to MikeZ. As for the holders I will PM you with a price. They are actually a complete set of injectors.
 
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