2010 TDI hpfp keep or trade????

seamus19066

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Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
Ok TDI Gurus, many have shown this issue in many threads and have repeated what it costs at the dealership at their price under warranty. Figures from 6-8k seem average from what I have read. They also bill this price and I believe they get paid a set VW rate actually not their price?? Not every fix replaces every part but it seems they should have because I saw that it happened to one guy twice! So please chime in on this parts list I have looked up. I really like this car and have taken good care of it but having 8K hanging over my head is not a good feeling.

sending unit- 44.
pressure sensor- 58
fuel tank- 480
in line fuel pump- 219
in tank fuel pump- 197
fuel pressure regulator- 351
fuel rail- 275
Injection pump- 963
injector- 246
intake manifold- 260

Well I don't know that you need everyone of these parts or just most, but at first the total was 3093 but then realized there are 4 injectors so add another 738 for a grand total of 3831. If everything on that list was needed. This was online prices not list prices from a VW online site. So are all these parts needed. From the diagram it looks like 90% of this job can be done by a DIY guy. The HPFP on the front of the motor looks like it could use a German tech. So partial labor price. I think I am feeling a little better as it, (unless you guys pop my bubble,) looks closer to 3500 plus taking the last part to a specialist to do, lets say 700 to install the pump?? 4200 to get my hands dirty and ask for some help to save 4 thousand???? I feel better about that.

What say the gurus???
 
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lou95gts

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Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Location
Caledon
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2010 Jetta
The hpfp is an easy change if you're already doing a timing belt. Looks like it ads an hour to the job. So just add $750(discounted online price) to a timing belt job if that makes you feel better.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk 2
 

seamus19066

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Nov 28, 2012
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
Another thought from an engineering point of view. ( I am not an engineer!) But when the HPFP fails it is my understanding it is the return fuel or excess from this pump being returned to the tank w/ metal from the pump as it fails that contaminates the whole system correct?? So tank, to two pumps, to fuel filter, to hpdp, to fuel rail to injectors?? With a return feed at HPFP to tank?? If this is correct then adding another filter or screening on the return line could prevent contaminating the entire system! Then when the pump fails you only have to flush from this filter to the HPFP and then ONLY replace the pump! This seems very logical to me and would keep the cost down considerably in the event of a failure. This is a cheap preventive measure or insurance for owners out of warranty to combat a 4-8K fix of a 1000 dollar part.


What say the diesel mechanics and TDI gurus????? Logical? doable?? Easy?? Is the return line lower pressure??
 

engineered2win

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May 24, 2011
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Dublin, OH
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MkVI Golf TDI
Another thought from an engineering point of view. ( I am not an engineer!) But when the HPFP fails it is my understanding it is the return fuel or excess from this pump being returned to the tank w/ metal from the pump as it fails that contaminates the whole system correct?? So tank, to two pumps, to fuel filter, to hpdp, to fuel rail to injectors?? With a return feed at HPFP to tank?? If this is correct then adding another filter or screening on the return line could prevent contaminating the entire system! Then when the pump fails you only have to flush from this filter to the HPFP and then ONLY replace the pump! This seems very logical to me and would keep the cost down considerably in the event of a failure. This is a cheap preventive measure or insurance for owners out of warranty to combat a 4-8K fix of a 1000 dollar part.


What say the diesel mechanics and TDI gurus????? Logical? doable?? Easy?? Is the return line lower pressure??
You would still contaminate the injector lines, rail, and injectors. The only thing it would might eliminate was buying a new fuel tank and lines.
 

seamus19066

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
Well it's still worth it then because that is alot of labor plus the saving of those parts. I am on my way over to VW now to speak to them about this and my radiator.
 

seamus19066

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Nov 28, 2012
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
Update:
Had a long talk today with the service manager of VW. My car is having the DSG service done. He explained they have done many HPFP failures. I was a bit surprised at that and was hoping this was a small issue. I asked if he felt it was a large percentage he felt no but the real # is only known by VW. He also was very well educated on this problem and knew of the NHSTA investigating it also. He said they (NHSTA) have run this pump w/ pure diesel and it doesn't fail period. It fails only w/ contaminated fuel. He also said it is mainly a USA problem because of the low sulfur fuel and the way fuel is delivered in America using some of the same lines for diesel and gas. He said it happens elsewhere in the world but not at the frequency that it happens here. He further explained VW is well aware of it and there is no fix it pump yet. He told me of two cases at his dealership that were both out of warranty and VW covered it!!! That was very encouraging!! He said metal gets everywhere in the system if it happens, and a complete swap is definitely the only way to go. Yes 8k was the number at the dealer. Told me my only defense was fuel up at high volume fuel stations, no mom and pop places and keep my receipts in case action is needed against a station due to contamination. His experience has shown it ONLY happens from contaminated fuel either from the fuel station or mistakenly put in by an owner. I don't know if this 100% true but he has been through this several times. So it is 8K at a dealer and if your fuel is contaminated that is the cause. So what I will be doing is fueling at high volume shops and from now on keeping my receipts in an envelope in the car in case of going after a fuel station if the fuel is contaminated. I'm still going to look into a secondary fuel filter to prevent contamination of the entire system in the event of a failure.
 

schultp

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Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Location
Michigan
TDI
2010 Jetta Sportwagen, 6sp manual
I'm still going to look into a secondary fuel filter to prevent contamination of the entire system in the event of a failure.
This was discussed quite a bit in the HPFP failure thread. A lot of conceptual design ideas came out but no working filter system IIRC.
 

mysql

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Jan 19, 2010
Location
United States
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Jetta wagon
VW doesn't always cover. And you can't prove which gas station you used had gasoline in the tank if it had small amounts that didn't kill your vehicle immediately. Also comprehensive insurance doesn't always cover this failure.

There's a lot of IFs and MAYBEs in this.

If VW wanted to stand behind their produce AND they're covering most failures, it would make most sense to just offer a limited lifetime warranty, or extend HPFP warranty to 100k miles. At least it would look like VW cares for their customers.

They aren't doing it. And I see many issues from the past where VW has shrugged their shoulders at vehicle failures.

Mazda on the other hand has stepped up and extended customer warranties for past issues (I owned a first gen RX-8 that had the warranty increased to 100k miles). I hear BMW has done the same.

Taking a loss at roughly half the cost of a HPFP failure to get into a Mazda CX-5 or Mazda6 Diesel with a brand new 2014 MY and full warranty seems like a no brainer to me. Better FE and higher power to boot.
 

seamus19066

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Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
VW doesn't always cover. And you can't prove which gas station you used had gasoline in the tank if it had small amounts that didn't kill your vehicle immediately. Also comprehensive insurance doesn't always cover this failure.

There's a lot of IFs and MAYBEs in this.

If VW wanted to stand behind their produce AND they're covering most failures, it would make most sense to just offer a limited lifetime warranty, or extend HPFP warranty to 100k miles. At least it would look like VW cares for their customers.

They aren't doing it. And I see many issues from the past where VW has shrugged their shoulders at vehicle failures.

Mazda on the other hand has stepped up and extended customer warranties for past issues (I owned a first gen RX-8 that had the warranty increased to 100k miles). I hear BMW has done the same.

Taking a loss at roughly half the cost of a HPFP failure to get into a Mazda CX-5 or Mazda6 Diesel with a brand new 2014 MY and full warranty seems like a no brainer to me. Better FE and higher power to boot.
I hear ya and agree. There are alot of if's here. He even said I can't write that down for you but VW has covered all of them for him. It will calm me down for a while but will be interested to see the Mazda. I love this JSW for safety, quality and interior quality and materials. When I get in the Jap cars they are pretty cheap inside. I really can't understand why VW can't just extend the warranty as this is really going to hurt return customers and the value of the car. This happened to BMW w/ the E65 745 and 750's. There are so many expensive issues w/ the car that they sell for pennies now and no one wants them.
 

seamus19066

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Location
North Carolina
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2010 sportwagon
This was discussed quite a bit in the HPFP failure thread. A lot of conceptual design ideas came out but no working filter system IIRC.
I mentioned this to him today that I was exploring it. He said he felt that if this were cheaply and easily done to prevent such a large fix VW would be sending it in a repair kit. I don't agree because then VW would be admitting a problem and have to do it on thousands of cars at a greater expense. I still think case by case basis is still cheaper for them. This should be a recall or extended warranty at the least!
 

seamus19066

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Nov 28, 2012
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
Well when I bought my 2010 JSW there was a waiting list in Florida where I bought it, of 100 people. Picked up my car today from service and there no less than 4 sportwagon diesels out front w/ 3000 off sticker on the window!!

The tide is turning, and this issue may be getting noticed by the masses. All you have to do is google Jetta sportwagon TDI and you will find the issue.
 

seth1065

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2011 JSW with DSG, Panoroof, rear air bags and the always fun velcro blocks, Blue with beige int
good to hear if that is true, maybe VW will find a solution if it hits them in the pocketbook
 

seamus19066

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Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
Oh it's true. Leith VW on Capital Blvd in Raleigh NC. I was there today. Economy could be playing into it and also Christmas, a slow time for Car sales but still both times I bought my TDI I was waiting or looking and felt lucky both times paying sticker! Like a psycho I am thinking what will they give me on my trade and 3K under sticker???? Hey its' the same car same problem!!!! But its' new!!! LOL......Oh boy!!
 

dweisel

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Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
Well when I bought my 2010 JSW there was a waiting list in Florida where I bought it, of 100 people. Picked up my car today from service and there no less than 4 sportwagon diesels out front w/ 3000 off sticker on the window!!

The tide is turning, and this issue may be getting noticed by the masses. All you have to do is google Jetta sportwagon TDI and you will find the issue.
Well, that's not really good news for all the 09 thru 2012 tdi owners. Diesels have traditionally held their value and brought top dollar in the used car market. Of course the VW CR isn't a traditional diesel.

Once this problem hits a social media site,it will spread like wildfire.

VW will just continue to plod along and fix failures as they come along up to a certain point and then owners will be on their own.
 

pknopp

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WV
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2012 Jetta Sportwagen
Well, that's not really good news for all the 09 thru 2012 tdi owners. Diesels have traditionally held their value and brought top dollar in the used car market. Of course the VW CR isn't a traditional diesel.

Once this problem hits a social media site,it will spread like wildfire.

VW will just continue to plod along and fix failures as they come along up to a certain point and then owners will be on their own.
TDI resale is still very high and people have been rooting for a major news story for the year I have owned mine and none have been forthcoming.

What is the story supposed to be?

(AP) It seems we have uncovered that a small percentage of 2009-12 VW TDI's have experienced fuel pump failures that lead to a contamination of the fuel system. From our investigation, VW has covered nearly every one of these failures, even for cars that were out of warranty.

OP, if you are concerned, sell the car. People do it everyday.
 

seamus19066

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2012
Location
North Carolina
TDI
2010 sportwagon
As of now I am very concerned but in adding up the numbers my money is already spent and my pump is working. There was debris in my filter housing cleaned it out not sure if it was metal. Being that I love the car and the money is spent I am looking into a filter after the HPFP so if and when it goes it will prevent contaminating the entire system cutting the cost of the repair cost in half. So that would save the tank, labor and two other fuel pumps and the filter housing. The rail, injectors and HPFP would be garbage. Not being too biased I don't think there is another car in the JSW category. Very safe, fast and peppy, great mileage, handles well, nice interior. All others are cheap, economy cars that I just don't feel safe about putting my family in. That leaves jumping up to a mid size car. And of course more money and less economy. So I may be taking the gamble w/ a new in line filter to offset the cost as that is feeling a little better than 8K. I will also being keeping receipts and talking to my insurance agent regarding the liability of being damaged by a fuel station!
 
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Scenic Driver

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Orange County, NY
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2010 Golf TDI
As of now I am very concerned but in adding up the numbers my money is already spent and my pump is working. There was debris in my filter housing cleaned it out not sure if it was metal. Being that I love the car and the money is spent I am looking into a filter after the HPFP so if and when it goes it will prevent contaminating the entire system cutting the cost of the repair cost in half. So that would save the tank, labor and two other fuel pumps and the filter housing. The rail, injectors and HPFP would be garbage. Not being too biased I don't think there is another car in the JSW category. Very safe, fast and peppy, great mileage, handles well, nice interior. All others are cheap, economy cars that I just don't feel safe about putting my family in. That leaves jumping up to a mid size car. And of course more money and less economy. So I may be taking the gamble w/ a new in line filter to offset the cost as that is feeling a little better than 8K. I will also being keeping receipts and talking to my insurance agent regarding the liability of being damaged by a fuel station!
A few of us are already running a filter on the return fuel line, PM member 2micron, he has a kit already put together, I've had it on my car for around 15k miles already.
 

2micron

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Mar 23, 2012
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Canada
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None
I did, thank you! 2Micron where are you???????? sent you a PM!! LOL
Sorry seamus,
I certainly will help you out. The return filter is very simple and well worth the effort. You must understand it will not save the pump from failure. It will not save the rail, HP lines or injectors.
It will help contain the damage of a failed pump away from the tank, lift pump, lines and boost pump.
I will get back to your PM, apologies for the last couple of days.Here is a couple of pictures:




All the best,
 
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schultp

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Michigan
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2010 Jetta Sportwagen, 6sp manual
I had been thinking of this filtration add-on myself...good to see someone has already developed what looks like a nice solution. 2micron, I have sent a PM. I am interested in this filter too!
 

2micron

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Canada
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Sure thing Paul,Thanks for the interest.
This is very simple and worthwhile.
Your PM has some options and ideas.
Thanks,
All the best,
 

showdown 42

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Feb 16, 2012
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naples,FL
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2016 TDI touareg
With all the panic about HPFPs on these web sights,lets just look at the real facts. 1% of these have had failure,some %age were mis fueled,so lets move on.

Every car on the road has some sort of item go bad that is expensive. My Totally reliable Sequoia after 2 yrs had a side mirror go bad out of warranty 35k miles, $500. Crap happens in a car. I own a 2009 JSW bgt new,not a single issue,so much for first yr models having issues. Just saying.....
 

Abacus

That helpful B4 guy
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Nov 10, 2007
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Relocated from Maine to Dewey, AZ
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Only the B4V left
Comparing a $500 mirror to a $7,000+ fuel system is comparing apples and bowling balls.

And it's all fine and good if you're part of the 99%, but since there is no way to tell which cars will be fine and which ones won't, it's still playing Russian Roulette with your wallet.

Yes, things can happen on any vehicle, but they happen catastrophically with much more frequency on the '09+ TDI's, something VW is unwilling to acknowledge.

And the '09+ TDI's haven't been out that long. If you're buying a vehicle that you want to last to 200K+ miles, then statistically speaking, none have failed yet, so they're great...right? After all, we're looking at the facts here.

My point is the HPFP's run fine in a lab, but I don't live in a lab, I live in the real world, and in the real world too many have failed to make me comfortable owning one, so I won't.
 

red64chevelle

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Jan 17, 2007
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Coventry, RI
TDI
mk6 Golf TDI, mk4 Jetta TDI, Beetle TDI
A few of us are already running a filter on the return fuel line, PM member 2micron, he has a kit already put together, I've had it on my car for around 15k miles already.
I am running his kit also. I don't think VWoA will ever honor a warrantee with me again, so if/when the HPFP fails, I would prefer to minimize the costs for me to fix her up.

I really want him to work on that CP3 job. I have my limits in fabrication, and his kung-fu is much stronger than mine.
 
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