Audi A3 TDI 2010 HPFP Failure

kndonlee

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
TDI
2010 A3 TDI 2.0
While traveling back from NC to PA the following failure occurred. Though it is not confirmed as an HPFP failure by the dealership yet, all directions point to such a failure.

TLDR; Glow plug & alternative light flashing while driving. Car loses power and will not restart. Dealership claims contaminated fuel. Confirms dielsel, but with "brown goop" in fuel filter. Recommends opening claim with insurance company. Hopes draining & cleaning brown goop is all that is needed to fix.

Car: 2010 Audi A3 TDI
Mileage: 50200
Trans: DSG
Additives: No
Purchased: March 2010

2011-10-17
15:15 - While cruising at 70, car loses power at mile marker 80 on I-81N. Gas pedal provides no power. Glow plug and alternator lights blink and car coasts to stop. Retrying engine start is unsuccessful.

Checked fuses and and brake light operation based on glow plug warning light flashing.

15:27 Reached out to Audi card and coordinated tow to Duncan Audi in Roanoke, VA.

16:57 Tow arrives and takes car to Audi in Roanoke. We arrive around 18:00 when the dealership's service dept is closed. My fiance and I spend the night in at a hotel waiting for analysis the next day.

2010-10-18
7:56 Reached out to dealership and told main mechanic is not in until the 19th. Other techs will attempt to look at vehicle around noon.

11:30 Got a rental and drove back to ~350mi to PA.

16:00 Reached out to dealer and told no techs had a chance to look at vehicle.

2010-10-19
14:00 Missed 2x calls with service manager at ~11:30 & ~13:50. Finally got a hold of service mgr and told that fuel is contaminated with "brown goop" in fuel filter. States he contacted Audi and looks toward contaminated fuel from prior fill up and recommends opening insurance claim with insurance co. Awaiting further analysis. I ask for pictures of the brown goop to document filing a claim against the gas station that provided the contaminated fuel.

=================
To this point, I'm pretty sure that this is a hpfp failure and I'd imagine that the "brown goop" is rust.

I did change the fuel filter at 45k and noticed some metal shavings in the fuel canister.

Since 2010/Jan, PA has mandated that all fuel is at least B2, so I have always filled up with B2 Biodiesel in PA. There's probably about ~15 fillups that were done outside of PA (NJ, VA, NC, OH, IL, MI).
I imagine that having 2% biodiesel has made a big difference in my failure. Most people's failures have shown up between 8k,15k,25k, but I've gone 50k+, then finally had a failure.

PA will be requires B5 as biodiesel production ramps up...
 

chummer

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2005
Location
Huntington Beach, CA
TDI
2010 A3 TDI Premium Plus/Titanium Package
Sorry to hear that, mine faild not to long ago and took them about two weeks to get the parts in and installed them. Audi replaced everything from the tank to the injectors. They also said it was bad fuel for me, I only use 76 diesel. They showed me the pump and there was metal shavings everywhere. To bad that you just pass your warranty of 50k, audi won't help you with it with just over 200 miles?
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
The fuel filter is supposed to collect the "brown goop" If they are going to deny you warranty bases on brown goop in the fuel filter,ask to see if there is any brown goop in the hpfp that caused it to fail. If there isn't any brown goop in the hpfp then the filter did its job.

This is the same BS that went on with the early VW CR failures and is now also starting to happen with Canadian owners. One case I know of VW tested the fuel for gasoline and water. When those test came back negative they tested the fuels lubricity and viscosity. They just want to always blame it on the fuel and pass the repair cost onto your insurance or the service stations insurance.
 

pleopard

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2006
Location
Calgary, Alberta
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI
View the goop with your own eyes, touch it, and try to determine what it is. Regardless, as dweisel said, the filter is there to prevent this from happening. It's there to prevent any "goop" from damaging the pump. Report this to the NHTSA immediately, please, for everyone's sake. https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

Quote case/action number EA11-003, which is an ongoing engineering analysis into failures of the high pressure fuel pump in these cars.

Let us know when you get confirmation of what the problem really is.
 
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maroonfrog1

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Location
Fort Worth, Texas
TDI
Audi A3 TDI S-Line 2011
Can Blackstone or similar firm analyze fuel filters?

When I had my 15k mile service done on my '11 Audi A3, I should have asked the dealer to give me the fuel filter. Can a firm like Blackstone do fuel filter sample analyses like they do for used oil? Seems with all that's going on with these HPFPs, that would be a service worth paying for to establish a history of findings within the fuel filters over time.
 

kndonlee

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
TDI
2010 A3 TDI 2.0
The dealer sent me pictures of the brown goop. This is quite odd. I can't make out what kind of stuff got stuck in the filter. It's definitely not metal shavings as I had expected.

Not sure if this is a hpfp failure or just weird junk. Any ideas as to what this stuff could be?





 
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dweisel

Top Post Dawg
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Jul 28, 2006
Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
The dealer sent me pictures of the brown goop. This is quite odd. I can't make out what kind of stuff got stuck in the filter. It's definitely not metal shavings as I had expected.

Not sure if this is a hpfp failure or just weird junk. Any ideas as to what this stuff could be?





I'd be curious to see what the inside of your fuel tank looks like. The brown goop could possibly be something that has separated out of some biodiesel.
 

kndonlee

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
it looks like it is. It almost looks like the goop that is made from a bad batch of biodiesel, cept I've never used anything but gas station diesel...
 

kndonlee

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
TDI
2010 A3 TDI 2.0
Good news is that Audi is silently and quickly picking up the bill it seems. A call today was a pleasant, we've gotta do the following... and I've already ordered the parts.

When inquiring about cost, the svc manager said that Audi was taking care of everything.

Audi is replacing:
Fuel Pump, HPFP, Fuel lines, Fule injectors & Seals. They are also cleaning the tank.
 

dweisel

Top Post Dawg
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Location
Wheeling, West Virginia
TDI
dweisel isn't diesel anymore!
it looks like it is. It almost looks like the goop that is made from a bad batch of biodiesel, cept I've never used anything but gas station diesel...
Some fuel can have a small percentage of bio in it and doesn't have to be labeled as such in some states. So, you may have unknowingly used bio. Thats good to hear that the repairs are going to be covered. I'd be curious to know if the fuel quantity regulator has any metal particles in it. It was hard to tell from your photos,but it looked as though there may have been some fine metal particles on the top of the fuel filter.
 
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Ted Hurst

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44224
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2015 GSW
Looks like unwashed Biodiesel. The milky stuff could be left over soap in the bio and the brown stuff looks like glycerin. Plus it almost looks like water and some unconverted feedstock. Who knows maybe there is some salts and methanol floating around in there too! Looks like a chemistry experiment gone bad!
 

kndonlee

Member
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
TDI
2010 A3 TDI 2.0
Some fuel can have a small percentage of bio in it and doesn't have to be labeled as such in some states. So, you may have unknowingly used bio. Thats good to hear that the repairs are going to be covered. I'd be curious to know if the fuel quantity regulator has any metal particles in it. It was hard to tell from your photos,but it looked as though there may have been some fine metal particles on the top of the fuel filter.
From looking at the photos there does look to be fine metal particles. Plus there were metal particles that were there from the 45k fuel filter change.
 

kndonlee

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Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
Looks like unwashed Biodiesel. The milky stuff could be left over soap in the bio and the brown stuff looks like glycerin. Plus it almost looks like water and some unconverted feedstock. Who knows maybe there is some salts and methanol floating around in there too! Looks like a chemistry experiment gone bad!
Yea, this goop totally doesn't make sense to me. How could that junk have gotten into the tank?! I suppose it could have been from the last fill up, but should it have shown up in the filter where the pictures show it to be?

But lets say that I got sub-standard fuel and a bad batch of bio from the station. The fuel filter should have caught the junk and I should have had kind of stuttery performance? It was odd, but the engine was pulling strong until the failure. Wouldn't bad diesel, larger amounts of water, soap yielded a non-smooth engine? Rather than that, I just had a complete mechanical failure...
 
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pleopard

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Apr 19, 2006
Location
Calgary, Alberta
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2010 Jetta TDI
Good news is that Audi is silently and quickly picking up the bill it seems. A call today was a pleasant, we've gotta do the following... and I've already ordered the parts.

When inquiring about cost, the svc manager said that Audi was taking care of everything.

Audi is replacing:
Fuel Pump, HPFP, Fuel lines, Fule injectors & Seals. They are also cleaning the tank.
Good to hear! The filter should protect the fuel system from catastrophic damage caused by solid contaminants. The worst that should happen with solids contamination is fuel flow reduction and perhaps limp mode or at worst, a stall - not destruction of pump, lines, and injectors...
 

fastalan

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Jan 1, 2010
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Richmond BC
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2010 Golf TDI Wagon
You guys seems to have forgotten that the pump needs to be lubed by the diesel, thus poor quality diesel, in this case, VERY VERY POOR quality diesel was what killed the pump.

Shouldn't OP revels the location of his last 5-10 fill ups so at least folks in the nearby area can at least avoid those stations?
 

Ted Hurst

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I've heard that this time of year that water settles out pretty easily with the colder temps. I wonder if a preventative dose of Diesel 911 added before the temps start to drop would have kept this car running without issue?
 

kndonlee

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18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
I've heard that this time of year that water settles out pretty easily with the colder temps. I wonder if a preventative dose of Diesel 911 added before the temps start to drop would have kept this car running without issue?
Interesting. That's a bit disconcerting to hear. I guess the trick is to do everything to only fill up at high volume stations.

The last fill up was from a small-ish Shell off of I-81 in Abingdon, VA. The last 3 or so fillups were along the I-81 corridor as I was on a road trip. But for the majority of the car's life, it has been getting its diesel at Sunoco at the LV service station off of I-476.
 

kndonlee

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Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
You guys seems to have forgotten that the pump needs to be lubed by the diesel, thus poor quality diesel, in this case, VERY VERY POOR quality diesel was what killed the pump.

Shouldn't OP revels the location of his last 5-10 fill ups so at least folks in the nearby area can at least avoid those stations?
I guess the question is, do you think ~50 mi of very poor quality diesel could take out the hpfp? Or could the last fill up just have been the straw that broke the camel's back?
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
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Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
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1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
That sludge looks like seperated BD to me or built up bacteria that has died. But if your fuel system has caught a cold or a small % of BD is required by law has seperated VW/Audi really can't say a lot if they want to sell diesel models in the states. And if they don't fix a failure like yours it will cost them so much in future sales that they can't even consider not covering it.

And on poor diesel quality, what are we expected to do?? Take samples during each fill up in case we get a bad batch???????????? I have had to stick my arm inside a tank to clean built up crap like that a couple of times over the years. About 20 years ago I spent 3 months trying to straighten out a mess like that in my 85 Jetta TD.
 

kndonlee

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Dec 11, 2010
Location
18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
So, you were already on your way to a failure with metal particles at 45k.
I'm guessing so. I wonder if PA's B2 isn't enough lubrication... I thought I read around here that B2 brought the scar levels down to around high 300's?

Or is it just that several ~580 ish tanks of diesel will wreak havoc?
 

fastalan

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Richmond BC
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2010 Golf TDI Wagon
I guess the question is, do you think ~50 mi of very poor quality diesel could take out the hpfp? Or could the last fill up just have been the straw that broke the camel's back?
No one knows how much qty of water the HPFP has gone through, there is only so much the filter can trap. Maybe the HPFP has faught off many gallons of waterish diesel until its violent death.

The facts

1) The HPFP died due to poor quaulity diesel

2) Audi knows how to treat its customer right
 

kndonlee

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Location
18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
No one knows how much qty of water the HPFP has gone through, there is only so much the filter can trap. Maybe the HPFP has faught off many gallons of waterish diesel until its violent death.

The facts

1) The HPFP died due to poor quaulity diesel

2) Audi knows how to treat its customer right
So when choosing between the golf and the A3, spend the extra ~5k for the Audi premium and get better customer service, eh? That was definitely one of my considerations when choosing between the a3 and the golf.
 

fastalan

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2010 Golf TDI Wagon
So when choosing between the golf and the A3, spend the extra ~5k for the Audi premium and get better customer service, eh? That was definitely one of my considerations when choosing between the a3 and the golf.
Yeah, that could be the reason for the quick resolution. How would have Audi lured away so many customers in the last 4-5 years that would have bought a BMW, Mercedes or even Lexus. All Audis use basically VW or enhanced VW/lower end Posrche parts, selling the product at higher MSRP than VW allows for more budget on attention to detail, fit and finish, reliability and if all fail, better customer service to clear up any engineering and production error.

VW has been selling near Audi level cars in North America for the last 10 years, then forced by the market to compete with cheaper products from Japan. Now that VW has detuned and simplified the newer volume models to Toyota/Honda level and can compete with them on equal terms, hopefully we'll begin to see upward trend in VW customer service.

Having said this, my VW dealer has been exceptional, but they also own Audi dealer, maybe I have been lucky.
 

RebelTDI

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2016 Audi Q5 TDI, 2016 BMW 535d Xdrive
If that sludge in the filter was bad BD, it is disturbing for several reasons. The BD wasn't some home brew, but commercially prepared, and, presumably up to specs. Also, diesel pumps at stations I use all have filters on the pumps that should have filtered that goo out. The BD mandate in several states always seemed like a plus, given the improved lubricity. If they are providing substandard product or not handling it properly, then it becomes a liability.
 

kndonlee

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18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
If that sludge in the filter was bad BD, it is disturbing for several reasons. The BD wasn't some home brew, but commercially prepared, and, presumably up to specs. Also, diesel pumps at stations I use all have filters on the pumps that should have filtered that goo out. The BD mandate in several states always seemed like a plus, given the improved lubricity. If they are providing substandard product or not handling it properly, then it becomes a liability.
Yes, that is very disconcerting. There is always multiple layers of protection, filters on the pump, filters on the tank, filter on the trunk, in the car... It's hard to believe that the multiple level of fuel filters that are typically in place would have failed to catch that BD sludge.

I wonder if there was just a bad batch of BD + water that got in and the BD sludge formed inside the fuel tank.
 

RebelTDI

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Yes, that is very disconcerting. There is always multiple layers of protection, filters on the pump, filters on the tank, filter on the trunk, in the car... It's hard to believe that the multiple level of fuel filters that are typically in place would have failed to catch that BD sludge.
I wonder if there was just a bad batch of BD + water that got in and the BD sludge formed inside the fuel tank.
Forming in the tank would seem likely. It would be nice to have an analysis of the sludge to determine exactly what it is and if it can be avoided.
 

kndonlee

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18104
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2010 A3 TDI 2.0
Forming in the tank would seem likely. It would be nice to have an analysis of the sludge to determine exactly what it is and if it can be avoided.
I probably won't be able to get a sample since I'm over 300mi away from the car... The thing to really consider is whether to keep the car or sell/trade it.

I definitely will be checking the fuel like a hawk. Though, it seems like a pita to perhaps check the fuel filter every 5k miles or so...
 
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