If there is a Buyback..What would it take for you get out of your TDI?

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VeeDubTDI

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‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e

ATR

Top Post Dawg
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Jun 18, 2005
Location
Baltimore
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2011 Golf TDI 6MT
The other big thread is moving too fast for a simple question to be noticed...

How long do you think this whole process will take for vw to come to a decision on what they will do?
 

ALBOB

Veteran Member
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Dec 29, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
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2010 Jetta Sport Wagon
That seems premature, considering the investigation will likely be expanded to include the V6 TDI in the Touareg, Cayenne, and Audi models.

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/foreign/2015/09/22/volkswagen/72605814/
See that's the thing, I don't care what the investigation finds. I love the cars and love the engines. I'm 99.9% sure I'll be getting the Q7 next year. If this fantasy of a 200% buyback happens and I can use it on that purchase I'll be in absolute heaven. Not gonna hold my breath though. At this point my only realistic hope is that this whole mess doesn't hurt the value of my current car.
 

tjsadler

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Aug 15, 2013
Location
California, USA
TDI
2014 Passat TDI SE 6m
Up to this point I have loved my 2014 Passat TDI. I previously owned a 2010 Jetta TDI. After this debacle I will not own another. I live in California so I'm expecting the chances of being involved in a buyback program of some sort is pretty likely. There is zero chance that CA will allow you to just skip the recall. Even if only a small fix were required the value of my car has now plummeted due to the press coverage alone. Once they fix this it WILL result in my not having the same car that I paid for two years ago one way or another (less mpg/reliability issues/additional maint costs/ etc...) so I will personally be pushing for a complete and total refund of all money paid and then they can do what they want with the car. Sad, really, as I have been an unpaid VW TDI salesman/evangelist for years...
 

roostre

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Puget Sound, WA
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2012 Golf TDI DSG
….. How long do you think this whole process will take for vw to come to a decision on what they will do?
From: http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm

The EPA estimates: "it could take up to one year to identify corrective actions, develop a recall plan, and issue recall notices."

Be prepared for a long wait before knowing what will happen to existing TDIs.

Hopefully VW will provide information concerning existing TDIs when the 2016 model year is offered for sale.
 

showdown 42

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naples,FL
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2016 TDI touareg
Everything with regard to the TDI will be on hold for a longtime. It will take VW a while to figure out what it needs to do to get this system straigthened out. It may require additional parts. It will be a while before you can sell at a reasonable price.
 

VeeDubTDI

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The other big thread is moving too fast for a simple question to be noticed...
How long do you think this whole process will take for vw to come to a decision on what they will do?
Almost all questions in the big thread are being responded to (over and over again).

Is EPA officially requiring Volkswagen to issue a recall now?

No. EPA expects to compel VW to issue a recall in the future to reduce the emissions impacts of these vehicles. Owners will be notified of that recall once Volkswagen and Audi have developed a remedial plan and EPA has approved the plan. Manufacturers are given a reasonable amount of time to develop a plan to complete the repairs, including both the repair procedure and manufacture of any needed parts. Depending on the complexity of the repair and the lead time needed to obtain the necessary components, it could take up to one year to identify corrective actions, develop a recall plan, and issue recall notices.
http://www3.epa.gov/otaq/cert/violations.htm#affected
 

turbobrick240

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maine
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2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
If you've already tampered with emissions equipment I don't think you should be illegible for anything.
Haha, you're killing me! You sure you didn't mean unintelligible? I don't care if I'm eligible for a buyback that isn't happening. If anything, I think vw may offer a trade in credit.
 

Slothy

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Location
Jersey
TDI
Mk6 Golf TDI
I already went in for the ECU flash last month during our oil change, which might have been a mistake in retrospect.

Agreed! Did the same thing and I have a hard time hitting 50mpg now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

piotrsko

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Aug 11, 2013
Location
Reno Nv
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2013 Golf, 2000 F-250 (7.3)
I own my vehicles an average of 20 years. The f250 hasnt seen a dealer since 2004 and has 3 or 4 important recalls waiting to be done on things that aren't broken and has a master lock on the obd port for those times the PD or anybody wants to collect data without a warrant.

Not paranoid, just prudent. I can also wait For VW if i need to.
 

bhtooefr

TDIClub Enthusiast, ToofTek Inventor
Joined
Oct 16, 2005
Location
Newark, OH
TDI
None
I own my vehicles an average of 20 years. The f250 hasnt seen a dealer since 2004 and has 3 or 4 important recalls waiting to be done on things that aren't broken and has a master lock on the obd port for those times the PD or anybody wants to collect data without a warrant.

Not paranoid, just prudent. I can also wait For VW if i need to.
Because, you know, there's anything that a 7.3's ECU could possibly send over OBD that would be incriminating. Anything at all.
 

engineered2win

Veteran Member
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Location
Dublin, OH
TDI
MkVI Golf TDI
I fully expect a manufacturer buy back at a respectable price. In order to meet EPA requirements they will be using more EGR, which means more stress on the already fail prone emissions components. This will also decrease fuel economy. I rather doubt they will recall all the emissions related components and do a proper full redesign with urea.

When faced with the decision to buy a replacement HP EGR valve and new DPF just outside warranty, I more or less was forced into doing a DPF delete to make this thing reliable enough for a DD. It broke down on day one due to failed intake air throttle, it's had numerous boost leaks, exhaust valve failure, and hp egr that killed the dpf in 100k mile. Not to mention the ridiculous wind noise for poor door seals and the seats that fray if you look at them; both problems VW ignores. At this point if any respectable offer emerges from VW I'm tapping out. I originally bought this as a reliable, fuel efficient daily driver and that's not turned out to be the case.
 
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bhazard

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Aug 16, 2012
Location
Toledo, OH
TDI
'12 Golf,4dr,6mt,tech
Looked up my car on kbb today.

2012 Golf TDI 4 door, manual, tech package, 85k miles.

$11k trade in value.

Sticker was like $30k, I think I owe around $20k still.

At the very least, they should buy it back for what's owed, and maybe +10%.

I would say +10% towards a new VW product, but I don't think I would want a VW gasser. I would probably end up with a Subaru.

Don't get me wrong, I love the car, but I did pay too much for it and at the very least it was falsely advertised. It's also going to be due for a lot of expensive maintenance within the next year or so and if I can get out of that, that would be nice.
 

TDI Kovács

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🌞Florida🌴
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Two Preban TDI's; One "FIXED" TDI.
What would it take to get me out of my TDI you ask?
I think this would just about cover it...and no less! :p

Needless to say, I love my TDI!
 

seth1065

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NJ
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2011 JSW with DSG, Panoroof, rear air bags and the always fun velcro blocks, Blue with beige int
Ok ,I just made my last payment on my 11 and got my title today, I have about 115,000 on it now, has not been flawless but I love the wagon, if VW did some sort of enhanced trade in ( i assume it would only be for a VW group owned product ) I would really have to think long and hard about taking it, I do not want anymore car payments but if they offered the Toyota deal of 150 % I would have to take a hard look at it and more than likely take it and buy a new TDI wagon or a GTI. I will have to do a timing belt soon so that will factor in as well. I doubt they will due a buyback but they may do the enhanced trade in, So VW hurry up with your enhanced trade in offer before I put another $1500 in my car. :)
 

ATR

Top Post Dawg
Joined
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Location
Baltimore
TDI
2011 Golf TDI 6MT
I just test drove a mkvII GTI with dsg...

If I were looking for a new car I'd have bought it on the spot. It really was that good.

It's a good thing I still like my car and honestly I don't want to get rid of it unless there's a buy back.
 
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kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
It wont take anything to get me out of mine. Im gone. The only way to make an informed decision is to know why vw did what they did. Was it for mpg goals, power or longevity? Wont ever know that answer so cant decide if to accept fix or get gone. Time to get gone imo.
 

croppz

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Joined
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Location
Mooresville, North Carolina
TDI
2013 DSG Jetta TDI
Yes, keep jumping ship people.

I'll continue to enjoy my TDI day in and day out, but I also live in NC with no Diesel emission testing so i wont touch that recall.

As far as a buyback is concerned, they'd have to give me a very good deal on mine. I don't want to get rid of my car, I'd just try to convince them to give me free scheduled service for as long as I own the car.
 

jayemdaet

Member
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Sep 20, 2015
Location
San Diego, CA USA
TDI
2012 VW Golf TDI
For California (where I live), I am expecting a buyback. The laws here are so strict and typically are ahead of the game when it comes to emissions laws. You can't even buy a car here that doesn't meet code and if you do and the emission system isn't working (i.e. they didn't test the emissions system or tried getting away with it), your entitled to all your money back, devaluation doesn't matter. I am hoping they apply this methodology to California TDIs.


I'll continue to enjoy my TDI day in and day out, but I also live in NC with no Diesel emission testing so i wont touch that recall.
 

JSWTDI09

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Jan 31, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2009 JSW TDI (gone but not forgotten)
Yes, keep jumping ship people.

I'll continue to enjoy my TDI day in and day out, but I also live in NC with no Diesel emission testing so i wont touch that recall.

As far as a buyback is concerned, they'd have to give me a very good deal on mine. I don't want to get rid of my car, I'd just try to convince them to give me free scheduled service for as long as I own the car.
I agree with everything you said, except for the last sentence. No VW dealer has seen my car (except in the parking lot when I buy parts) for over 50,000 miles and I expect to keep it that way. I would refuse VW service and ask for some other compensation instead.
I do have to get tested every year, but it is basically an opacity test on a dyno. As long as I smoke less that a garbage truck, I'm pretty much OK.

Have Fun!

Don

P.S. If you take your car to the dealer, you might get the recall done whether you want it or not.
 

astroboy

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 8, 2012
Location
toronto, canada
TDI
golf wagon tdi highline
I have a 2012 highline with about 50 000 km on it.

We used the money from our wedding to buy it. No payments. With two little kids in daycare, there is no way that we could afford any payments on a new car.

I can't say that I would accept any "deal" on a new car. We were planning on driving this car until it dies.

I'm seriously disappointed in this.

It was actually the first car I've ever had. My wife and I were cyclists. We bought this car for these reasons: fuel efficiency, longetivity, clean diesel, great storage space.

I was lied to and I'm angry
 

dgoodhue

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Joined
May 3, 2014
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Framingham, MA
TDI
'14 6MT JSW
I hope you're not angry about the typically better than epa ratings fuel efficiency.
Seriously no is going to be angry because a car has better rated FE. That was uncalled for. TDI aren't the only cars to exceed the EPA FE ratings. My Subura exceeds it rating by 20% and my father Camry Hybrid exceeds the ratings by 15%.
 

dgoodhue

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Joined
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Location
Framingham, MA
TDI
'14 6MT JSW
I have a 2012 highline with about 50 000 km on it.

We used the money from our wedding to buy it. No payments. With two little kids in daycare, there is no way that we could afford any payments on a new car.

I can't say that I would accept any "deal" on a new car. We were planning on driving this car until it dies.

I'm seriously disappointed in this.

It was actually the first car I've ever had. My wife and I were cyclists. We bought this car for these reasons: fuel efficiency, longetivity, clean diesel, great storage space.

I was lied to and I'm angry
I understand. My wife and I are not going to make any rash decision about her TDI, we are just going to wait and see what the solution is and the consequences of the change.

I don't get overly worked up about emissions. I have modified some of my other cars, but I don't purposely increase the emissions of the vehicle or remove/disable emission equipment. (I do realize my modifications likely may have increased the emissions of the engine.) I didn't necessarily want to buy a gross polluter though either . My wife on the other hand bought this car to reduce our fuel consumption and have limited impact on the environment. (She initially was looking at buying a Prius) This is likely the last VW my wife buys unless VW offers a generous incentive to buy another one to replace our TDI.

I am not that happy VW conducted business like this. I am also not that thrilled about the potential resale ramifications either. I will be upset if the car does not meet the 30/42 mpg ratings after the fix.
 

kevin_in_idaho

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Boise, Id
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Returned 2012 Sportwagen DSG Pano White
I'm not sure how VW will try to compensate owners as they can't really calculate what the effect is on value but one thing for sure, it's going to cost existing owners thousands of dollars. Yes, VW will pay Billions! of dollars, but that doesn't help the owners.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
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Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
Seriously no is going to be angry because a car has better rated FE. That was uncalled for. TDI aren't the only cars to exceed the EPA FE ratings. My Subura exceeds it rating by 20% and my father Camry Hybrid exceeds the ratings by 15%.
Wow, that was my point. I very much doubt that your gas guzzlers exceed the epa ratings as much as the tdi under similar driving conditions. I can hypermile and exceed the ratings hugely, but that is life sucking boredom.
 

RGFanta

Member
Joined
Nov 10, 2013
Location
Princeton, NJ
TDI
Sportswagon
Here is the way I think you have to approach this problem.

[Correcting this a 2nd time.]
1) VW was a ~$90B company until just before this scandal according to this chart - I'm assuming that the chart was in $USD. IMO, no settlement can come in at above 1/2 of that or the company is dead.
https://ycharts.com/companies/VLKPY/market_cap
2) Here's a rough back of the envelope calculation of the cost of a buyout of all the existing cars.
a) Find the rough value of all those cars according to Kelley BlueBook. A 2009 TDI sportwagen has a Kelley BB value of ~$9.5k, and a 2014 TDI sportwagen (like mine - e.g. with sunroof and stick) has a Kelley BB value of $24.5k. Average those two is $17k. I know that not all of the diesels that were sold were Tdi sportwagens, so say the average TDI worth is ~$15k.
b) $15000 * 500000 cars = $7.5B charge-off. That's still do-able and could be ammortized on the balance sheet over a few years.
c) If offered 150% or 200% of KBB for a trade-in, many people would take the trade in. VW could modify the cars traded-in and sell them abroad (at a loss, but still not a total write-off), possibly with the mods (urea injection into the exhaust + urea jug in the storage area in the rear + extra catalytic converter to process the ammonia in the exhaust that the urea converts the NOx into).
d) Offering a generous trade-in also helps increase sales, which partially offsets the loss.

If a software fix is possible, then you're compensating people $3k-$10k per car in the US (i.e. $1.5B - $5B - this range is just my wild guess) for the decreased value in their car both in terms of resale value and in fuel economy. You have to be a bit generous here because this is a big scandal and your reputation is at stake.

The trouble is that: a) VW could face fines from the US AND Europe AND other countries. That cuts into the amount that they can offer in terms of a settlement. b) The above was just a rough calculation for a car buy-back for US cars. Settling for any portion of the other 11M cars out there worldwide obviously causes much larger scale headaches financially, and limits what can be offered in the US and those other countries.

I think that VW will have to offer a combination of the two and offer us either a cash settlement, or a very generous trade-in value.
 
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kydsid

Veteran Member
Joined
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Location
Texas
TDI
2012 Passat
Yes, keep jumping ship people.

I'll continue to enjoy my TDI day in and day out, but I also live in NC with no Diesel emission testing so i wont touch that recall.

As far as a buyback is concerned, they'd have to give me a very good deal on mine. I don't want to get rid of my car, I'd just try to convince them to give me free scheduled service for as long as I own the car.

Heres the thing in that. The current administrative prcedure for states is individual vehicle emissions testing for states with higher standards. You know have a group of cars that can cheat the current procesure. California et al cant know via this procedure if one car is fixed or not if and when a fix is found.

This means for these cars to stay on the road either the EPA must track each one and make the data available to every state, each state must track them on their own, or they all have to trust vw to track and report fixed vs not.

All three of those options have HUGE administrative and funding requirements. This would be a decades long program to track vehicles to make sure they conply with individual state requirements.

All other issues asside this is the biggest problem imo. As a career gov employee who works at a level of interaction between the feds and multiple states i can safely say that all the states will never agree to do it themselves and the feds are not much better.

The best hope is that the epa runs the tracking and requires vw to pay for it but that runs into a significant legal and regulatory mandate.

In short I am very confident all non scr tdi will go thru a forced buyback.
 
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