Apparent intercooler icing issue (x2), dealer no help. Whats the suggestions?

DZL_Damon said:

I thought about doing a drain, but feared it could freeze up and crack as well. Plus, I don't want to have to have my daily start up proceedure to include getting on the ground, opening a drain, start the car, blow it out, get on the ground, close the drain, brush off, THEN I can drive!

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A brass tap and rubber hose will not crack. My thinking is the ideal time to drain is after running the car -- like returning home. a warm engine bay will thaw any liquid in the hose. And draining the hose, say once a week, should be enough to keep accumulation out of the danger zone.

Obviously the TSB kit is superior... just not cheap and much more labor involved. Can't confirm this is the same kit, but at $800 the drain tube is looking better and better: OEM p/n: 1K0-198-803-B

DZL_Damon said:

Did they charge you, or is this a warranty item? I'm at 47,000 miles, so still in my powertrain warranty. I very much consider a "no start" scenario followd by water in my crank case to be a powertrain item.... one woman at the dealership didn't seem to think so though!!

Is this what was happening with you 740GLE? Other than some tuning changes (I assume with the EGR), what else is really DONE?

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You're discription sounds right on with others have thought.

I mentioned these issues at my 10K in January of 2010, and again at my 30K December 2010. I never had to be towed in, nor and codes stored, but the dealership did notice milky goo and bit of water.

VW didn't have a kit until spring 2011. I stopped by in October of this year with 44K on the clock (to have a door lock replaced on good will) and asked about the IC kit, they looked at my records and said they'll order one up and have me come back to install it. So far I haven't had a single non start issue with many drives in conditions that i'd think i'd have an issue without the kit.

740GLE said:

You're discription sounds right on with others have thought.

I mentioned these issues at my 10K in January of 2010, and again at my 30K December 2010. I never had to be towed in, nor and codes stored, but the dealership did notice milky goo and bit of water.

VW didn't have a kit until spring 2011. I stopped by in October of this year with 44K on the clock (to have a door lock replaced on good will) and asked about the IC kit, they looked at my records and said they'll order one up and have me come back to install it. So far I haven't had a single non start issue with many drives in conditions that i'd think i'd have an issue without the kit.

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Thank you. That's encouraging that VW's solution seems to work.

Did they let you keep the old intercooler?

As the owner of a car known for bending rods I have tons of alarm bells going off in my head. Forcing the car to turn over with water in the cylinders is a very, very bad idea. If one cylinder fired and turned the engine around to a cylinder full of water you could easily bend a rod.

IMO the first thing to be done when you encounter an engine that cranks then stops is to remove all the glow plugs and crank it over. You don't want to bend a rod, and you don't want that water in your oil.

-J

DZL_Damon said:

Thank you. That's encouraging that VW's solution seems to work.

Did they let you keep the old intercooler?

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nahh they kept it and all the sludge and built up crap inside, the dealer had another old IC from another owner that had the kit installed, the tech showed me both "new updated IC" that was going in mine and the old one side by side.

compu_85 said:

As the owner of a car known for bending rods I have tons of alarm bells going off in my head. Forcing the car to turn over with water in the cylinders is a very, very bad idea. If one cylinder fired and turned the engine around to a cylinder full of water you could easily bend a rod.

IMO the first thing to be done when you encounter an engine that cranks then stops is to remove all the glow plugs and crank it over. You don't want to bend a rod, and you don't want that water in your oil.

-J

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A few members have had their long blocks replaced on VWs dime because of this. One member had a compression check pefromed after this issue, everything came back "SAT" with-in VW vague spec.

I personally have put on just over 40K since my first go around with this issue, so far I've had 4-5 start-stall's becuse of this. My MPG's have been great, nothing less than 40, so fingers crossed nothing serious has happened.

740GLE said:

nahh they kept it and all the sludge and built up crap inside, the dealer had another old IC from another owner that had the kit installed, the tech showed me both "new updated IC" that was going in mine and the old one side by side.

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What was the differences between the two? Is the upgraded one smaller, or just have hose's at different spots? I'm hoping the new one won't interfere with my new Frost Heater I just installed. It almost rests on the lower IC piping on the driver side..

hydro-lock below freezing

All this water-in-the-intercooler talk was new to me until last week I went to start my 2010 Jetta TDI at the train station where I'd left it for 2 weeks. Temp outside was 29F. Engine turned over a few revolutions, sputtered, and then...froze..... battery not dead... seemed like water in the cyclinders must be causing it. Towed to my deal in Brunswick, ME, I just got it back. They thawed it out, drained the water, and gave me a new battery and particulate filter. Doesn't sound like a permanent fix to me! So I got on the phone. Turns out the cold weather intercooler kit is currently being modified, so isn't available ( and my service manager said that it looked like 200-1000 are backordered!!!!) I called VWoA trying to get more info on what is being done to find a solution, and they say I will be contacted by their regional rep tomorrow. Interestingly enough, a year ago in warmer weather I went to start the car and it made that 'klunk' sound of hydro-lock but eventually turned over..... and then wouldn't start, and I kept trying over the weekend with no luck... just cranked and cranked. When VW towed it in on Monday, they rolled it off the truck and it started right up.... AND.... they couldn't find anything wrong with it. I think this intercooler condensation problem needs to be solved.

Same size, the TSB IC has an internal baffle that closes blocking off the top 2/3 when vaccum actuated. It's actuated by a temperature controled vaccum valve located on the intake (think thermostat). It's all mechanical no coding wiring needed.

@idealpowers- First hearing this modification, please report back what you hear!

I'm in the waiting room of Noyes Vw in Keene, NH typing this. The service mgr didn't have much to say when I checked in.

I printed a copy of the TSB and left iy on the passenger seat.

I'll report back.

Baranger VW in Rochester (other side of the state) knows about it, they also now know to not toof the HP AC line they had to R/R as they had to buy a new one for me.

MayorDJQ said:

I'm in the waiting room of Noyes Vw in Keene, NH typing this. The service mgr didn't have much to say when I checked in.

I printed a copy of the TSB and left iy on the passenger seat.

I'll report back.

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Point out that TSB if they can't find it themselves. I felt the guys at my local dealership in Bangor honestly could not find the TSB with my VIN number. I really doubt they were trying to hide anything as they did sound like they wanted to find a solution for me... they could also tell I had done my homework and wrenching was very familiar to me.

After they had searched for the TSB according to my problems, they asked if I had the TSB number. I luckily had it printed out and gave it to them. They were amazed it did not turn up in their search since the TSB applies to ALL 09-10 TDis. They have updated the TSB a few times, but they were able to find the newest release based on the older #.


740GLE: Does it use that same thermostatic peice in the intake that opens/closes the hot air intake (at least that's what I think it is... the small hose going towards the back of the engine)? Or did they install new intake parts as well?

I think they keep updating the design on this . I've heard different descriptions of what was done and perhaps they are not all panning out!

740GLE said:

I personally have put on just over 40K since my first go around with this issue, so far I've had 4-5 start-stall's becuse of this. My MPG's have been great, nothing less than 40, so fingers crossed nothing serious has happened.

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That's crazyness.... like rolling the dice....

-J

This seems to be especially an issue in an area like New England where we have wide temperature and humidity swings from day to day. Lots of Maine, Mass and NH folks in these threads. I wonder if at some point VW will allow preemptive kit installations for people living in this region. It seems like its just a matter of luck and if you happen to be driving during certain weather/temperature conditions it will happen to you.

I'm going to leave the issue alone until we have a rough start, but by next year when the end of the warranty draws close I think I'll push to have the kit installed and tell them whatever they need to hear to do it. Having our first hard start at 36,185 miles and getting denied by VW (as I read in another thread) would make me crazy so better to be proactive about it.

DZL_Damon said:

Point out that TSB if they can't find it themselves. I felt the guys at my local dealership in Bangor honestly could not find the TSB with my VIN number. I really doubt they were trying to hide anything as they did sound like they wanted to find a solution for me... they could also tell I had done my homework and wrenching was very familiar to me.

After they had searched for the TSB according to my problems, they asked if I had the TSB number. I luckily had it printed out and gave it to them. They were amazed it did not turn up in their search since the TSB applies to ALL 09-10 TDis. They have updated the TSB a few times, but they were able to find the newest release based on the older #.

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I thought that leaving a printed version of the TSB on the seat would be enough to alert them, but evidently it wasn't.

Here's the rest of the story, to quote myself from the other thread:

MayorDJQ said:

After an hour, I noticed my car was outside and dripping (snuck in a wash on me!). The service manager informs me that they found condensation in the passenger side pipe. The tech cleaned, reinstalled, and roadtested the car. I was expecting to be told about the misfire codes but the mgr said nothing. When I asked about what to do next time I have a rough start/stumbling/no start, he said just make an appointment and we'll check it again. ***???? I asked about the TSB for the intercooler update. At first he played dumn and said he hadn't heard about it or the rough/no start issues, but later admitted that he had recieved probably 50 calls complaining about it. I asked if there were any stored codes, and he flat out said "No, there's nothing for the ECU to store." So now I know the S/M is a liar.

He then explained that VW is working on a solution that pumps warm air into the I/C and hopefully it will be ready soon. He also said that he'd ordered 5 of the updated kits, but they're on backorder. Wait a minute, I thought you knew nothing about the issue?

I was too irritated yesterday to contact VWoA, but will be doing so after work today. (The new Focus is starting to look like a good alternative to VW. Why pay more per gallon for D2 and 44mpg if I can get 40mpg for $.50+ per gallong less?)

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I don't know how much good it will do to contact VWoA, but maybe it will.

I think when I get home this afternoon I'll start a new thread strictly for information gathering purposes. Hopefully it can get stickied. It should included the when, where, why, how, and what happened to indicate a problem with your car. Also, the solution, what dealer, was the dealer forthcoming, etc.

DZL_Damon said:

740GLE: Does it use that same thermostatic peice in the intake that opens/closes the hot air intake (at least that's what I think it is... the small hose going towards the back of the engine)? Or did they install new intake parts as well?

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This is the picture of the piping going into the intake manafold from the cool side of the IC.

The part sticking out contains the temperature activated vaccum control valve, you can see two vaccum ports one goes to the new IC with the baffle flapper thing, the other goes to a return I think, I think there is a thrid vaccum port on the other side.

So the air box flapper valve has nothing to do with how this new system works.

MayorDJQ said:

At first he played dumn and said he hadn't heard about it or the rough/no start issues, but later admitted that he had recieved probably 50 calls complaining about it. I asked if there were any stored codes, and he flat out said "No, there's nothing for the ECU to store." So now I know the S/M is a liar.

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I tried Noyes for a rust warranty repair because I read good things about their service dept and wasn't at all impressed. Terrible communication, never got it scheduled, finally had to call VWoA in order to get the regional guy to show up and evaluate my car. And whatever body shop they used to repair my fender did a pretty lousy job to boot. I guess I will avoid them from now on. Nothing like having someone lie to your face.

I wonder who they think they're fooling or why they wouldn't be offering up the TSB fix as soon as they can get their hands on it. It's a fix that they should make money on since it would be on VW's dime. What do they gain by playing dumb and stringing customers along.

Warranty works paid for by VWoA pays only $X, customers pay $XXXX for work. If they are busy with customers paying for work (oil changes, other maintance) they'd rather take their money.

Also doesn't VWoA do audits of high warranty work shops?

I've had this happen 4 times in the last 2 1/2 years. Service manager said it was bad fuel. I asked him if he got his qualifications out of a cracker jack box.

I've since switched dealers and am looking to have the update done in two weeks.

MayorDJQ said:

I thought that leaving a printed version of the TSB on the seat would be enough to alert them, but evidently it wasn't.

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MayorDJQ you might find this funny. Yesterday I was also in Keene - test drove a couple Suby's next door and then swung through Noyes about 6:45pm just before close. There was only one guy in the place, salesman John C.

I told him I had a '10 JSW that I wanted to refresh with a 2012, and we started talking Passats & JSW's. I told him I wasn't at all happy with the fuel system and IC issues on the Mk6's and was considering switching to Passat platform for W2A IC & newer fuel system revision. He then told me flat out that his dealership hadn't seen a single IC issue. I pressed him on it, because I don;t believe it for a minute, and he said yep, no IC issues whatsoever, and he checks in with his customers .

He then proceeded to tell me that the Passat is a "sweet car" that will have a far better long-term reliability record than the 1st gen CR TDI's. Told me the Passat "does not have a DPF , and therefore much simpler". I said I don't think that's quite true - has DPF but Urea replaces NOx cat. This caused heavy stuttering and backpedaling, followed by he meant there are less flap valves, which will lead to better reliability.

I know this is an old thread but has anyone had any luck getting this repair on vehicles out of warranty? I think its bull that its only covered in warranty. It is an issue they know about and should be fixed on all vehicles. I love my Jetta but VW seems to lack customer service big time and are not good at standing behind things. I had a recall done on my Jeep 17 years after it was issues without a single problem. This is a serious issue on cars that are not cheap. You would think they would want thier customers happy. I dont know about you but if something like this blew my engine all because they didnt want to cover this fix for my car because it was out of warranty I definitly would not be a repeat customer. So has anyone had any luck out of warranty. I have 83,xxx miles on my Jetta just got it a few months ago. It has not has this particular fix done to it. The PO of the car lived a little further south. I can see me having this issue though and wanted to be proactive and get it done but I dont have $800 to drop on this fix right now.