ecu tune + dsg tune + dealer ecu/dsg flash
- Thread starter vinistois
- Start date
Bob Sacamano
Veteran Member
the same? as in it's performing great? or was there a problem?
HPA stuff right?
sorry, your post was a little vague
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
If you still have performance software in your ecu or DSG then they were not updated by the dealer.
A dealer reflash overwrites all of the data in both of those modules, there is no way for a tune to still be there after an update.
The dealer system can only update it can't overwrite an existing identical software level file. If your tuner for example installed a file that contained the update and had that software level already then the dealer can try all they want but they cannot flash the car without getting tech line to intervene and start the forced update remotely. Also some tuners for their DSG software change the part number and software level so that competitors cannot figure out what file is supposed to be in there. This is down right idiotic but whatever that is for another time. If the tune you had in your DSG had a part number and software level that did not match the system again would not be able to do the update.
Your invoice may still say the update was performed because there is a labor code the dealer would input that would indicate the the update was attempted but could not be performed, this way it doesn't keep showing up as an open recall/bulletin for the next 10 years.
A dealer reflash overwrites all of the data in both of those modules, there is no way for a tune to still be there after an update.
The dealer system can only update it can't overwrite an existing identical software level file. If your tuner for example installed a file that contained the update and had that software level already then the dealer can try all they want but they cannot flash the car without getting tech line to intervene and start the forced update remotely. Also some tuners for their DSG software change the part number and software level so that competitors cannot figure out what file is supposed to be in there. This is down right idiotic but whatever that is for another time. If the tune you had in your DSG had a part number and software level that did not match the system again would not be able to do the update.
Your invoice may still say the update was performed because there is a labor code the dealer would input that would indicate the the update was attempted but could not be performed, this way it doesn't keep showing up as an open recall/bulletin for the next 10 years.
thanks for the info.
I watched them do it, they did it, that there is no doubt. They knew the car was tuned, we were all expecting it not to work.
Someone else in my family has the same car, and its obvious I still have the ECU tune.
The gear indicator and launch control still work on the DSG, so obviously that is still intact as well.
Not sure what else to say!?! Oh right, there was a problem before - the DSG would almost stall when coming to a stop. It didn't want to let go of 1st. Now that problem is gone. I didn't notice any difference in the way the engine ran.
Yes this is the HPA package.
BTW my dealer is Goldkey Langley VW. If anyone lives anywhere in the GVRD and is looking for a dealer, this is it. I have been appalled by the service at 3 other dealerships - this one got it right. They did the fuel injector fix, replaced both rear door handles, replaced the torn sunroof shade, and applied the updates. No money was spent, and they gave me a brand new CC to drive in the meantime. There was no evidence anyone was even inside the car afterwards - and I went over it with a fine toothed comb. Every trim is on right, no fingerprints, all the seals re-installed properly. Big props to Goldkey!
I watched them do it, they did it, that there is no doubt. They knew the car was tuned, we were all expecting it not to work.
Someone else in my family has the same car, and its obvious I still have the ECU tune.
The gear indicator and launch control still work on the DSG, so obviously that is still intact as well.
Not sure what else to say!?! Oh right, there was a problem before - the DSG would almost stall when coming to a stop. It didn't want to let go of 1st. Now that problem is gone. I didn't notice any difference in the way the engine ran.
Yes this is the HPA package.
BTW my dealer is Goldkey Langley VW. If anyone lives anywhere in the GVRD and is looking for a dealer, this is it. I have been appalled by the service at 3 other dealerships - this one got it right. They did the fuel injector fix, replaced both rear door handles, replaced the torn sunroof shade, and applied the updates. No money was spent, and they gave me a brand new CC to drive in the meantime. There was no evidence anyone was even inside the car afterwards - and I went over it with a fine toothed comb. Every trim is on right, no fingerprints, all the seals re-installed properly. Big props to Goldkey!
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St.Hubbins
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2010
- Location
- Nashville
- TDI
- '10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
so what fixed your DSG issues, the tune, or the dealer flash?
if my dealer won't perform the DSG update for me (which i'm assuming they won't since my VIN doesn't call for it), i'm wondering if a DSG tune is my only option...
if my dealer won't perform the DSG update for me (which i'm assuming they won't since my VIN doesn't call for it), i'm wondering if a DSG tune is my only option...
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
No matter what you tell me.. I will never believe they actually did the update. Just because they hooked up to it and attempted it does not mean it actually overwrote anything. They don't just write to part of the ECU or mechatronics units, they overwrite every bit of data or they could brick it when flashing over a tuned module. If they brick it then they are buying new hardware since they do not have the means to recover them like us tuners do.
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
You posted on a public discussion forum, so yes you asked for my opinion and thousands of others whether you wanted it or not.
This is what I do everyday and have done everyday for 10+ years now both as a dealer tech who has actually flashed cars there, a shop owner reflashing cars after updates, and now almost 5 years as the lead tech support for Revo in North and South America. Needless to say i have dealt with this exact scenario 10s of thousands of times at this point and never ONCE has anyone's experience been what you describe.
Unfortunately the information you are giving people is misleading. I"m fine with opinions and had your post been that of an opinion I would not post in anyway saying it is incorrect. This situation is dealing with facts regarding an actual process that s you describe it is not possible. I have access to the files that VW actually uses in these updates from time to time since we own a 5052 and a subscription. The files used in an update are a 100% completely file and if actually installed into the ECU or mechatronics unit would overwrite 100% of the file meaning there would be no possible way that the tune could still exist.
There are two scenarios here:
1 you did not actually get the update
2 you don't have the tunes anymore (I guess you could have one but not the other).
Call your tuner and they will backup what I am saying.
This is what I do everyday and have done everyday for 10+ years now both as a dealer tech who has actually flashed cars there, a shop owner reflashing cars after updates, and now almost 5 years as the lead tech support for Revo in North and South America. Needless to say i have dealt with this exact scenario 10s of thousands of times at this point and never ONCE has anyone's experience been what you describe.
Unfortunately the information you are giving people is misleading. I"m fine with opinions and had your post been that of an opinion I would not post in anyway saying it is incorrect. This situation is dealing with facts regarding an actual process that s you describe it is not possible. I have access to the files that VW actually uses in these updates from time to time since we own a 5052 and a subscription. The files used in an update are a 100% completely file and if actually installed into the ECU or mechatronics unit would overwrite 100% of the file meaning there would be no possible way that the tune could still exist.
There are two scenarios here:
1 you did not actually get the update
2 you don't have the tunes anymore (I guess you could have one but not the other).
Call your tuner and they will backup what I am saying.
You know what Chris? You may be all you say that you are and that's wonderful for you. Regardless, you were not there, were you?
They did the flash, there were no errors, no failures, nothing to report.
The car is still tuned.
Not sure why you are trying to boost yourself in my thread - its a sure sign of some kind of confidence issue or some beef that you have. Just take it somewhere else! You PM'd me before with your personal opinion, you can certainly do it again. Oddly you were much more professional in private than you are in public!
You realize that you're representing a company, and that your behavior is quite childish? You claim to be a professional - act like one. Professionals don't argue on forums about things that have nothing to do with them, that's kids stuff man! Search the forums for "Revo". That's where you live. If you want to rant on someone's thread, at least do it with a personal account so your company doesn't look foolish.
They did the flash, there were no errors, no failures, nothing to report.
The car is still tuned.
Not sure why you are trying to boost yourself in my thread - its a sure sign of some kind of confidence issue or some beef that you have. Just take it somewhere else! You PM'd me before with your personal opinion, you can certainly do it again. Oddly you were much more professional in private than you are in public!
You realize that you're representing a company, and that your behavior is quite childish? You claim to be a professional - act like one. Professionals don't argue on forums about things that have nothing to do with them, that's kids stuff man! Search the forums for "Revo". That's where you live. If you want to rant on someone's thread, at least do it with a personal account so your company doesn't look foolish.
HaveBulldogWillTravel
Veteran Member
While we're on the subject of over-writing(sort of), is it possible to update the DSG transmission without disturbing VagCom changes made at home...like windows down with key fob, lighting changes, etc?
yes, absolutely. My car has lots of Vag-Com "personalizations", and they always stick through all tuning and updates (or non-updates lol)
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
This has nothing to do with boosting myself or Revo, 99% of my posts here have nothing to do with Revo and simply are just sharing my experiences and because I own a TDI.
The information you have given is incorrect. I am simply posting as someone with most like more experience on the subject then anyone else reading this post. Yes I work for a tuner and the only thing that has to do with this is it helps actually validate my facts on the subject.
Call your tuner they will tell you exactly what I have.
I politely stated facts on what can and cannot happen, you flipped out started getting angry and now I'm being childish? Just because you don't want to actually learn about something doesn't mean others need to get incorrect information. Insisting on being ignorant is one of my biggest pet peeves and unfortunately it is way too prevalent on most forums.
Your post is a disservice to the TDI community.
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
Yes the modules are completely unrelated and there is no reason they would be changed during a DSG update or any other update unless they specifically went and changed them. A few years ago we were hearing reports that when cars were brought in for service changes like operating the windows with the remote were being reset. I believe at one point in time during the guided fault finding process some modules were being automatically reset to the US coding configurations but I have not heard of that in a few years. This overlapped a time period when I was still working at an Audi dealership/had my shop/transitioning to this job and never saw it happen myself on anything there but had some customers with VWs who lost their changes after unrelated services.
JSWTDI09
Top Post Dawg
Every different sub system has its own controller with its own memory. The DSG has its own controller. The CECM (Central Electronics Control Module) is where most of the changes you mentioned are. Some changes are also in other controllers. Any DSG upgrade will only overwrite custom DSG tweaks (if any). Engine (ECM or ECU) changes will only overwrite engine parameters. Any CECM updates (there have been none, yet) might overwrite your lights and/or window tweaks. However, any update will only effect the one control module that is updated. It will have on effect on other control modules.
This is the nature of CAN bus. Every controller is independent. They can (and do) talk to each other, but their functions are completely separate.
Have Fun!
Don
oh man Chris, how can you say my experience is incorrect? It's MY experience.
Did I flip out? really? Or did I just point out my opinion that your responses are childish? But I suppose that's my experience too, and is also "incorrect".
Either way, thanks for pointing out to everybody the true attitude of the employees at REVO. How dare anybody experience anything new without consulting you first. Sorry for referring to you as a professional. I like your title better "someone with most like more experience on the subject then anyone else reading this post".
Did I flip out? really? Or did I just point out my opinion that your responses are childish? But I suppose that's my experience too, and is also "incorrect".
Either way, thanks for pointing out to everybody the true attitude of the employees at REVO. How dare anybody experience anything new without consulting you first. Sorry for referring to you as a professional. I like your title better "someone with most like more experience on the subject then anyone else reading this post".
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HaveBulldogWillTravel
Veteran Member
tyvm!
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
You can have an experience and still not have all of the information.
You have not offered any proof that your ecu and/or mechatronics units were in fact updated. What were the software levels before and after the updates?
Have you contacted your tuner to find out if they think this is even remotely possible?
There are some very serious reasons why doing partial flashes could be extremely bad. Only flashing a small area of the ecu could brick it and as I said VW cannot recover them on a dealer level, VW and Audi dealers actually call us, APR, GIAC etc to recover ecus they accidentally brick all the time. Only flashing part of the ecu would cause checksum errors as the modified sectors and the updated sectors would not add up correctly. In some cases this will put the car into a limp mode in others it would just throw a code and turn the MIL on. Reflashing a 2010 + ecu also relocks it and modified software installed would not even allow the vehicle to start.
There are FACTS you are ignoring with your opinion on what you think you experienced.
I'm sorry but it is absolutely pathetic when someone cannot attempt to make sure people are not misinformed without being called childish and comments made about their professionalism. I'm wrong all the time, I take those experiences and learn from them. I suggest you try that as well.
While you might not want to hear what i have to say others very well like to. This is a public discussion forum and being a part of it will try to ensure that the correct information is made available when I have it.
ok then, let's let the official TDI Club record show:
- I fabricated my experience
- my tuner and dealer don't know what they're doing
- my dealer is inexperienced and lied to me about the result of their update
- you personally are the end-all resource of all things ECU related
- REVO is in the business of calling people liars and saying they are "pathetic" on public forums
Can we alter the thread title to reflect these progressions, and lock this thread?
- I fabricated my experience
- my tuner and dealer don't know what they're doing
- my dealer is inexperienced and lied to me about the result of their update
- you personally are the end-all resource of all things ECU related
- REVO is in the business of calling people liars and saying they are "pathetic" on public forums
Can we alter the thread title to reflect these progressions, and lock this thread?
TDIDSG4ME
Veteran Member
First one to supply popcorn wins!!!
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
Seriously?
First of all again this is a public discussion forum where things are going to be discussed, not everything you say will always be taken as gospel and sometimes others may actually have more knowledge on a subject than you. If you really are that against having people respond don't post on a public discussion forum go start a blog, turn off comments and then you can post all you want without having to worry about anyone else.
I am not saying you fabricated your experience, i simply stated that you may not actually know what happened.
I never said your tuner or your dealer don't know what they are doing. You have offered no evidence that your tuner even disagrees with my statements here, and again have given no proof that your dealer actually did the updates.
Again I never said your dealer was inexperienced or that they lied, what i am saying is that not all of the correct information may have been relayed to you properly.
I am not the personal end all resource for all things ecu related, never once did I claim that. I did state that in THIS thread I have more experience on it. I am the only one in this thread who has flashed an ecu period and I have done so using several different aftermarket solutions as well as on a dealer level. I have seen and know what information is contained in the factory updates. In fact some of the recent TDI updates are so dramatic that if they did a partial flash over an existing STOCK file it would lock the ecu because the profiles and map locations are not even the same as the earlier versions.
Where did Revo call anyone a liar or even call them pathetic? I as a Revo employee just came into a thread that is related to what we do and attempted to give some people information on what actually is done when an ecu is flashed. I never once said you were a liar, and I actually never said you were pathetic only that certain actions that many people do are. You on the other hand did outright start throwing around some names.
First of all again this is a public discussion forum where things are going to be discussed, not everything you say will always be taken as gospel and sometimes others may actually have more knowledge on a subject than you. If you really are that against having people respond don't post on a public discussion forum go start a blog, turn off comments and then you can post all you want without having to worry about anyone else.
I am not saying you fabricated your experience, i simply stated that you may not actually know what happened.
I never said your tuner or your dealer don't know what they are doing. You have offered no evidence that your tuner even disagrees with my statements here, and again have given no proof that your dealer actually did the updates.
Again I never said your dealer was inexperienced or that they lied, what i am saying is that not all of the correct information may have been relayed to you properly.
I am not the personal end all resource for all things ecu related, never once did I claim that. I did state that in THIS thread I have more experience on it. I am the only one in this thread who has flashed an ecu period and I have done so using several different aftermarket solutions as well as on a dealer level. I have seen and know what information is contained in the factory updates. In fact some of the recent TDI updates are so dramatic that if they did a partial flash over an existing STOCK file it would lock the ecu because the profiles and map locations are not even the same as the earlier versions.
Where did Revo call anyone a liar or even call them pathetic? I as a Revo employee just came into a thread that is related to what we do and attempted to give some people information on what actually is done when an ecu is flashed. I never once said you were a liar, and I actually never said you were pathetic only that certain actions that many people do are. You on the other hand did outright start throwing around some names.
JSWTDI09
Top Post Dawg
I really hate to have to join in on this conversation, but this is rapidly getting ridiculous:
- I fabricated my experience - No one has ever claimed this.
- my tuner and dealer don't know what they're doing - I have no idea about this (and neither does Chris).
- my dealer is inexperienced and lied to me about the result of their update. - This is always a possibility. VW dealers are not well known for their knowledge or their honesty.
- you personally are the end-all resource of all things ECU related. - Chris never claimed this, however he does have considerable knowledge about controller operation and re-flashing. He certainly knows more about this than either me or you.
- REVO is in the business of calling people liars and saying they are "pathetic" on public forums. - No one has called you either of these. To claim that an argument is pathetic is not the same thing as calling you (or anyone else) pathetic. Also telling you that you are misinformed is not calling you a liar.
Stop taking this so personally, that is not the way it was intended. No matter what you were told or what you believe, re-writing a controllers memory will overwrite whatever was there before. I have no idea exactly what your dealer did (and neither do you - unless you were the Tech who did the work), but I do know that Chris is basically correct. Perhaps he could have worded his responses in a way that caused less friction between the two of you, but that does not change the facts. I am not an expert on VW tuning, but I do have considerable experience with various other types of embedded controllers. What I know is that unless you are intimately familiar with the coding for a controller, you cannot just go in and do partial updates. I also know that your VW dealer's tech is not intimately familiar with Revo's (or APR's, or Malone's, or RocketChip's, etc.) tunes to the point where they could possibly do any updates without overwriting the entire memory. Again, stop taking this so personally. This is not about you - it is about the way digital controllers work.
Have Fun!
Don
chris@revotechnik
Vendor , w/Business number
I Actually just noticed you were the one talking a lot of crap about our products in another thread. I sent you a pm setting the record straight on all the misinformation you posted in that thread and even said i didn't want you to edit them just wanted to make sure that you had the facts in the future so that hopefully no more false information is given.
It seems your beef with us starts well before I even posted in this thread. It is pretty sad when one tuner talks crap about another to a customer and then the customer starts preaching it like it is gospel to the point that we can't comment in any thread without being harassed.
I am an extremely honest person, you will be hard pressed to find me speaking negatively about one of our competitors. If I see someone make an incorrect statement about a competitor that could even make us look better I will correct it. That is how much I care about the actual true information being out there then pushing and selling my products (it's also why I'm not in sales ) Unfortunately people get set in their ways and with things that they hear. It really helps to be a lot more open minded especially when you hear something bad about a company directly from their competition.
So just to set the record straight yes in that PM I stated that you were lied to by your tuner, because you were, and if that means I called your tuner a liar then I did. But really it's intent was to let you know that they may be misinformed and I was simply passing along the correct information. Sad when a business has to make up things about their competition while you are already there and handing them money. I actually send people to our competitors all the time when I feel they may have a better solution than we have.
It seems your beef with us starts well before I even posted in this thread. It is pretty sad when one tuner talks crap about another to a customer and then the customer starts preaching it like it is gospel to the point that we can't comment in any thread without being harassed.
I am an extremely honest person, you will be hard pressed to find me speaking negatively about one of our competitors. If I see someone make an incorrect statement about a competitor that could even make us look better I will correct it. That is how much I care about the actual true information being out there then pushing and selling my products (it's also why I'm not in sales
) Unfortunately people get set in their ways and with things that they hear. It really helps to be a lot more open minded especially when you hear something bad about a company directly from their competition.So just to set the record straight yes in that PM I stated that you were lied to by your tuner, because you were, and if that means I called your tuner a liar then I did. But really it's intent was to let you know that they may be misinformed and I was simply passing along the correct information. Sad when a business has to make up things about their competition while you are already there and handing them money. I actually send people to our competitors all the time when I feel they may have a better solution than we have.
St.Hubbins
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2010
- Location
- Nashville
- TDI
- '10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
as a neutral, but interested observer, i just wanted to note the exact point where you, vinistois, lost all credibility.
Bob Sacamano
Veteran Member
wow. what a **** show.
St.Hubbins
Veteran Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2010
- Location
- Nashville
- TDI
- '10 Golf, DSG / '11 A3, DSG (both went buyback) - '15 GSW SE
at least provide the first letter so we know which 4-letter word you're going with!
Bluerabbit0886
Active member
Exactly this.
Do you think it matters to me to have credibility on tdiclub? I have a real life! I have better things to do than argue with hot-headed types on the internet! This thread was simply a report. Just to say, hey, this is what happened to me. So in case anyone was scared to get their ecu updated, they would not have to worry. That's all. I did not ask for nor expect any replies. There were no questions, no opinions stated, nothing. There was no reason whatsoever for Chris to get involved - I have nothing to do with Revo and have never used any of their products. Chris can start his own thread about his own experiences, instead of telling me that mine are not true. If he wants to educate people about what he knows, that's great, I would not go into his threads and argue his statements, even if I didn't believe them.
I was never 'talking alot of crap' about revo. I simply stated that some people were having fuel pressure issues, which was true, and Chris admits to. So what's wrong with that? I think I mentioned that Revo were the only ones flashing via OBD2 at the time, which is actually a bonus for them - but Chris took insult to that as well. It was a thread where someone was openly asking for opinions about tunes. An invitation for information, so I shared some - how dare I.
I would much rather just submit to this guy and say 'you win' then fight about something I don't give a **** about. Really, what do I care. My car is updated, and it's still fast - I'm smiling! Chris and crew can yell and scream about how impossible that is all they want, it doesn't change my situation one bit!
Chris wants to be sure that everyone knows he knows the most about this topic. He wants to make it look like the things that I am saying, are things that HPA said, in turn making them look like they "know less" than he does. Both these agendas are in his (Revo's) best interest. I have zero to do with HPA. I paid for my products like everybody else.
I propose a solution. If we're going to be kids about it, lets do it properly. A simple drag race should settle this - no? A good old tune vs tune. At least then we'd be out having fun and not sitting at our keyboards!