BEST Suspension spring shock/strut Combo? Bilstein TC + VW Sport Springs

I want to put fresh shocks/struts in. I am sure the Koni Sports or Bilstein FD's are great,
but too much money. Seems like the Bilstein TC's are a nice upgrade to stock for good price.

I don't want a radical lowering, frankly I don't want it lower at all. The VW
sport springs seems to be the most mild springs with a 25mm lowering.

Does anyone have a comment on this combo Bilstein TC + VW sport spring?
Other combos? Should I stick with stock springs. I see some stock springs fail after 5-6 years.

EDIT: WINNER

Bilstein
Manufacturer Number: 22-131614 strut, 19-127439 shock, with stock springs.
(OEM PN: 1T0 413 031 GG SACH, 1K0 512 013 AA SACH)

I put in the new rear shocks. Noticed the difference driving. The back was
getting more roll when driven hard in turns. New shocks & tires much improved.
See my videos below: 89K miles,OEM Sacks vs Bilstein

Compare Old vs New Shocks - VW Jetta SportWagen OEM SACH's vs NEW BILSTEIN's
VIDEO: **** https://youtu.be/uSLK7L8L64w ***** Shocks
VIDEO: **** https://youtu.be/I_7ZKxGALvw ***** Struts

I expected the Bilstein's to have stiffer valving per plan, but the OEM was really weak,
by comparison. Not sure that is normal, but the rebound was poor to nil. 89K I would
not expect them to be worn out, but it sure seems that way.

four cost $230 and I did not have to buy new springs. I will say if I had to
do over I'd get new bump stops rear. For struts do NOT reuse, get new upper
mount and bearings, with new bolts as recommended. Consider new boot.

Rear Shock


Rear Shock


Front strut - took me about 4 hours a side on average. Slow I know.


Front strut - Finished

Hello,

Thanks for posting that up. I just upgraded to Bilstein HD's with stock springs in place, It felt amazing to drive like a sports car hence "SportWagen" which is truly fitting. Not friendly for a coffee cup on the cup holder without a lid on the top. HAHA! It held the road way better than her original shocks/struts at 233k and now 235k and drives much smoother. no more chattering from old shocks, thought it was bushing or something else that are going bad. I would say she drives a police car with heavy duty suspension. I used to own 2 ford crown victorias (2003-04) and 3 of 1994 Chevy Caprice LT1 9C1.....Perfect for my videophone job that carries 100-150 lbs of equipment.

Oh by the way, stock springs should be fine as long as your car is rust free, no salt chewing on your springs.... as far as I know that is.

I got a great deal on the Bilsteins for the Audi A3, which fits the MK6 Jetta and MK6 Sportwagen.
It has 10% stiffer damping. I bought the shocks and struts separate, total cost all four corners $232.

Alt Part numbers: 22-131614, 19-127439

It's recommend you replace the strut mounts. I got an alternate number, which is same as Audi TT TT Quattro
which are stiffer. I purchased them from FCP Euro (4.9 Google rating). The price was well below what I was seeing
from other sources. They are made by Febi (short for the Ferdinand-Bilstein company). OEM's cost $70 or more.

Part Number 8J0412331

I plan on installing them myself since to install. I got quotes to install them and it was about $275 for front and $125 back.

If you are speaking of the driver gear springs, I would NOT get them. I have them on bilstien sports and they bottom out everywhere. Its a PITA. They also end up being pretty low.

Turbodude1 said:

If you are speaking of the driver gear springs, I would NOT get them. I
have them on bilstien sports and they bottom out everywhere. Its a PITA.
They also end up being pretty low.

Click to expand...

Thanks a million. Yep I am going to stick with stock spring. Considering the
car has been though zero winter snow/salt days, should not be broke.

Just bought new strut mount, bearing, one time use bolts and tools. I have
a total of $388 into parts and tools. I am going to DIY. It looks straight
forward except for getting the axial bolt out and then torqued back + 90
degree.

The Bilstein TC "stock shocks" but for Audi A3 and suppose to be a little
stiffer by 10% than stock.... I just got new Michelin Pilot Sport A/S 3+
225/45ZR17, the handing is better...

It's pretty easy, though I ended up removing the axles in order to get enough clearance to get the struts out. Not super difficult, but it does take the better part of a saturday morning and early afternoon.

Yah the Driver Gear springs are crap. They are "designed to work with the factory shocks" which means they don't increase the spring rate. With a lower ride height and a similar spring rate, you just end up with less suspension travel. There is less distance from the bump stops, so any hard impact will be bone jarring as you have run out of suspension travel.

engineered2win said:

Yah the Driver Gear springs are crap. They are "designed to work with the factory shocks" which means they don't increase the spring rate. With a lower ride height and a similar spring rate, you just end up with less suspension travel. There is less distance from the bump stops, so any hard impact will be bone jarring as you have run out of suspension travel.

Click to expand...

^ This is exactly what I have observed. I can't understand how so many people are happy with them.... They must not actually drive their cars.

The previous owner had Neuspeed Race springs with stock shocks on my JSW TDI. AT 140k miles, the ride was incredibly harsh, which initially lead me think the springs were too firm. I also noticed bottoming out, so that lead me to believe the shocks were blown. They were replaced with Koni Yellows, and I have to say the ride is VERY nice.

ttcheung said:

The previous owner had Neuspeed Race springs with stock shocks on my
JSW TDI. AT 140k miles, the ride was incredibly harsh, which initially lead
me think the springs were too firm. I also noticed bottoming out, so that
lead me to believe the shocks were blown. They were replaced with Koni
Yellows, and I have to say the ride is VERY nice.

Click to expand...

Great point. That is the takeaway. Be careful of suspension changes.
Springs and Dampers need to match, Stock shocks are good for stock
springs ONLY.

Now the question is does high performance dampers work with stock springs?

I don't want lower, stance. So stock springs are good for me, and stock
springs if they don't break or rust do settle slightly. I would love the back
to sit a 1" lower for a level stance. However when I load up the cargo area
full. it sits level.

I'm happy with stock handling, especially w/ new Mitch Pilot sport A/S +3.
The shocks I have are suppose to be 10% higher damping force. I am
hoping this modest change will work well. I have a total of $388 into parts
and tool. I am installing them... The prices I got for installation was $400
to $750. Suspension work is expensive.

Find used Golf R springs. I put them on a 2011 JSW and they were great.

BarryT82 said:

Find used Golf R springs. I put them on a 2011 JSW and they were great.

Click to expand...

What did it do for you? Lower? Stiffer? What Golf R year?

Gas engine is lighter, would the Golf R be stiff enough for front? Thanks for the tip.

I am running a KW V2 Coilover setup that is only slightly lowered. The ride is a little bouncy due to the adjustment settings being turned up a bit. I added the some big sway bars and tighter control arm bushings.

The interesting thing to note is that when towing our trailer, we get hardly any droop in the back.

Tire size also makes a huge difference in the stiffness of the ride.

BUMP See Post #1 for updated shock install

I did a product test and video install on my 2009 Jetta I found this to be a great setup.
https://youtu.be/CZQkjZ5TSyw

I have the OEM Driver Gear Eibach springs on my Golf TDI and completely disagree with the negative sentiment earlier in this thread. I love the DG springs on my Golf with stock dampers.

The car does sit about an inch lower, which looks waaay better, so it does have less travel in the suspension. I notice this on g-out bumps on the freeway. However, the car is still really smooth on small bumps, and does not feel like I'm going 80mph at all.

The only logical explanation I can come up with, is that Eibach is using a higher quality spring steel. Also, there are more coils in the DG springs, yet the ride is stiffer. Stiffer yet compliant. So, more coils equals a longer piece of steel, yet stiffer thicker diameter steel. A higher quality spring steel will be faster reacting, meaning it will compress and rebound faster, but can still be stiffer... Like using a titanium spring on a full suspension mountain bike. Low quality spring steel will feel kind of dead.

Anyways, I absolutely love the DG springs, both in ride quality, handling and looks. The car definitely has less body roll in corners and is better composed in aggressive driving.

And yes, I am driving my car in a sporty manor. We have some amazing 2-lane blacktop roads in our area... I am a driver.

Also, it's important to note that VW uses linear springs. The DG springs are also linear.

The Golf dampers and suspension geometry are designed around linear springs. Most aftermarket springs are progressive. The Bilstein dampers are pressurized, witch makes them progressive. Koni Yellow dampers are not pressurized and are linear.

I'm pretty sure most race car suspension uses linear springs. Progressive springs are a compromised to have comfort and small bump compliance at the start of the travel but then ramp up in stiffness. I personally would stick with linear springs, since that is what the suspension geometry was designed for.

sriracha said:

Also, it's important to note that VW uses linear springs. The DG springs are also linear.

[sic]

I personally would stick with linear springs, since that is what the suspension geometry was designed for.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the input. I think you are onto something with the spring
progressive or linear. Not sure about your comments regarding dampers.

There are variable rate dampers, especially the Koni FSD. However most
dampers have constant damp and rebound. I'd would have to see data
to back up the difference between Bilstein and Koni and Sach. I can say
pushing on my new Bilstein shocks, the force to compress was consistent
from top to bottom. Bilstein rebound rate was also straight line, constant
rate. The Bilstein's are higher damp than stock sach's for sure. As I posted
here is my video.

VIDEO: **** https://youtu.be/uSLK7L8L64w *****

I love the TC Bilstein's. They have higher damp rate and therefore effectively
make the overall spring rate higher. Just changing the rear shocks made a
difference. I am going to tackle the struts this weekend. I think it will be
better than new handling. The Bilstein's are mono tube per the advertisement
propaganda below, where they claim better performance and durability.

Bilstein
Manufacturer Number:
Strut 22-131614 (1K0413031AC)
Rear Shock 19-127439 (1K0513029GH)

Bilstein’s have larger piston area and have quality manufacturing. This eliminates
dead spots, and deliver extremely responsive valving for superior performance and
handling, including consistent, fade-free damping and shorter braking distance. Made
only from the highest quality materials, Bilstein shocks may be slightly more expensive
than their conventional twin-tube counterparts, however, their reduced valve fatigue
means they last much longer. Bilstein shocks provide much greater cost-effectiveness
due to their longer service life.

Serious racers in America long ago realized conventional twin tube shocks did not fare
as well during the high speeds and G-forces of race conditions as monotube gas pressure
shocks. This is why NASCAR, Indy Car, and Formula One pit crews have long discarded
the older twin tube design and now all use monotube shocks instead. Although other
monotube shocks do exist, none can match Bilstein’s for the technological superiority
that delivers longer durability and performance.

This video explains the difference between mono tube (Bilstein) and twin tube (Koni).
I am a fan of mono tube, based on this comments. Twin tube is a lower pressure system
and tends to softer rides, and also when pushed cavitates. The mono tube has bigger
piston as well. In general mono tube dampers are higher performance than twin tube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEXEl30qMAE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrUuESt2Q9I

I also plan on rear sway bar... 22mm to 24mm. The stock is 18mm. This is
a daily driver, not a track car or auto cross car. The new Michelin Pilot Sports
made a big difference as well from the worn Michelin Primacy MXM's.

I'm sticking with the stock springs for now. My springs were in excellent condition.
The finish was still intact, no rust.

I am happy with the cheap upgrade. I have about $300 in parts including all
shocks, struts, new strut mount/bearings, and stretch hardware. Add $100
for new tools, $400 total installed. And I have some new tools! Yes!

PS I found a great new source for Parts: FCP Euro.
https://www.fcpeuro.com/
Great prices, quality parts, low or free shipping.
Only negative might be they not have every part you want.
What they have is in stock and ships very fast and cheap.
I bought my strut mounts and bearings at FCP Euro.

Swaybars are a huge improvement.

With most of the MK4's, adding the rear swaybar where there was none originally, makes the car track around the corners quite nicely, I think it is referred to as understeering?? It's a lot of fun to corner with all the torque from these engines to push you into the seat!

I expect that the same results can be had for the MK5 and MK6 cars.

Yeah, Bilsteins are the gold standard and high quality. The nice thing about Bilsteins is they are rebuildable, so race crews can open them up and customize the valving. I have Bilsteins on my MK1.

I believe I was wrong about Bilsteins being progressive, because they are gas pressurized. I got that mixed up with mountain bike rear shocks (I'm a mountain biker), where they have a piggyback air chamber that you can adjust the air pressure to control bottom-out resistance and make the shock progressive.

I'm pretty sure the gas pressurization in Bilsteins is specifically to resist cavitation and maintain more consistent damping through high heat. My friend put Bilsteins on his Toyota Tundra, with stock springs, and it made a world of difference in ride quality.

On a side note, mountain bike suspension seems way more advanced than auto/motorcycle suspension. It's all user friendly and crazy adjustable. Separate high and low speed compression and rebound damping, air adjustable progression, spring preload, adjustable valving, different viscosity oils and different oil levels are all things we get to play with.

......

Understeer is when the front wheels push in a turn, basically skidding straight instead of turning. Most cars are designed with understeer, because when the car looses traction in a turn, a beginners first instinct is to turn more into the turn instead of counter steering.

Oversteer is when the rear wheels slide out, like a drift turn. You must counter steer when this happens. Adding a stiffer rear swaybar on the Golf will promote oversteer. Oversteer is desirable in race cars but can be dangerous for inexperienced drivers.

PB_NB said:

Swaybars are a huge improvement.
I expect that the same results can be had for the MK5 and MK6 cars.

Click to expand...

I just bought 24mm, solid, 3-way adjustable Whiteline rear sway bar. I will start on softest setting, about 160% more torsional
stiff than stock 18mm. See my other thread. That sounds like a lot, but you don't start feeling the difference until you got to
about 100% over.

Help Me Pick A Sway Bar
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=470098

sriracha said:

Yeah, Bilsteins are the gold standard and high quality. The nice thing about Bilsteins is they are rebuildable.

I'm pretty sure the gas pressurization in Bilsteins is specifically to resist cavitation and maintain more consistent damping through high heat.

Oversteer is when the rear wheels slide out, like a drift turn. You must counter steer when this happens. Adding a stiffer rear swaybar on
the Golf will promote oversteer. Oversteer is desirable in race cars but can be dangerous for inexperienced drivers.

Click to expand...

Yes, 100% agree. The Bilstein's are MONO tube so they do resist cavitation better than the twin tube design.

Yes Over steer can be more dramatic than under steer. Most average soccer mom and dad can't handle drifts and skids. I'm use to that
from previous cars. Under steer is less dramatic and tends to make the driver back off throttle. In over oteer you may want to keep some
throttle while using proper steering input to account for the skid or drift. VW is such a front loaded front wheel drive car, over steer is nothing
like an old rear engine Porsche's (no stability control), and some of the rear wheel drive cars I have driven in the past were tail happy.

Then people say a stiffer rear sway bar will ruin wet/slippery drive-ability. My point is you have way less traction. Sway bar is not the real
issue or the most of your concern... The issue is lack of traction, so slowing down and not over driving the traction is key sway bar or not.
Stiff sway bars can cause slightly less comfort on uneven rough roads, but in modest beefed up RSB it is not a big issue.