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Old December 7th, 2017, 08:51   #1
whitedog
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Default Why you should replace clutch lever and pivot ball



This car had a 5 speed swap something like 50,000 miles ago and apparently they did it on the CHEAP. Im not even sure they put in a new disc and PP. My guy just bought the car so I did the TB and it had a horrible shudder when letting out the clutch. We knew we had to do a clutch soon but we just did the TB in his Golf and Acura so he was going to wait a bit.

Then I get the call at 7:00 at night that we have to do it now. It looks like the pocket for the pivot ball was barely hanging on and it finally gave up the ghost as he was pulling into his driveway.

Oh yeah, all of the bolts on the CV axle on one side came out by hand. I could go on with the list of other abuses, but I won't.

Remember that the pivot ball has a plastic type cap on it and if it's worn, it should be replaced. I ordered the parts before hand even though he said that we wouldn't need them.

Like a thermostat with a timing belt, I'm putting pivot ball and lever on my replacement list for clutches.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 08:53   #2
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Damn!
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Old December 7th, 2017, 08:58   #3
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Don't suppose you know how many miles on it?

I'm closing on 400k on the 98.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 09:06   #4
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I'm with Whitedog on this one; I always try to tell everyone that is replacing or having a clutch assembly replaced to spend the $50.00 now, and not take the chance of having to pull the tranny later to fix it correctly.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 12:05   #5
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If it looks good, why replace it? Always inspect the part, and if you're not sure, just replace the darn thing.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 16:50   #6
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seen that a few times... done over 100 trans swaps and/or clutch jobs and have had to replace a few pivot balls and arms...i always check for wear and lube em up... you can tell a worn pivot ball as the dome is no longer smooth but lumpy and the fork divot will have corresponding wear
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Old December 7th, 2017, 18:56   #7
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I got caught on that once also. I berated myself all the time I was pulling the transmission the second time just to replace a $10 part. Never again, I just plan on replacing everything.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 19:31   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLXD View Post
Don't suppose you know how many miles on it?

I'm closing on 400k on the 98.
No idea how many miles. But then again maybe it's like brakes: high mileage means lots of highway miles, hence fewer times stepping on the clutch. Lower mileage in all city driving would be worse than a like number of miles on a Highway Star. But higher mileage on a city delivery car would be even worse.
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Old December 13th, 2017, 18:40   #9
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I've seen this on a clutch with only 250k miles on it.
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Old December 18th, 2017, 20:54   #10
whitedog
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Default Why some aftermarket clutch slave cylinders are bad.

To tie into the clutch related post, had a 2002 that I thought had a bad clutch slave cylinder, leaking right at the connection for the line. Sure. I guess anything can fail, especially since this slave cylinder was an aftermarket one. New slave cylinder in and bled and I went to check to be sure it was fixed and it wasn't.

Dug into again and finally noticed that the fitting on the end of the tube would spin a bit. That can't be right. Put it together and bled it again and got in there with a mirror (which I should have done in the first place) and when the clutch pedal was pressed, the fluid was leaking around the line, not at the connection.

Then I finally noticed that the proper slave cylinder has a tab on the side that engages a notch on the fitting, whereas then aftermarket one had no tab. My theory is that without that tab and notch, the clutch line vibrates and moves and loosens the fitting on the line.

I will take some pictures so this makes more sense and I will try to cut up the old one to see exactly what has happened.

The OEM (which is FET, BTW) is plastic but the A/M one was aluminum with a steel fitting screwed in to accept the hose end fitting. Since they can't accurately predict where the tab would be after screwing in the steel fitting, they just don't put one on. If you are in a pinch and can't get a proper one, this one would get you home and would be fine for awhile, but it's not a good long term fix because it appears that it will cause a failure in the line due to the missing tab.

At least that's my best guess. I hate to say "well, sometimes things just fail" and like to get to the root cause and I think I have here.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 21:27   #11
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If you're good with a TIG welder or better yet, some silver braze, you can glue it back up. That's what I did on mine.



I replaced the clutch master a year ago hoping that it wasn't a bad clutch (it was), new clutch just never felt quite right even though it's the exact same clutch in my TT, just always felt different. Finally started dripping oil from the new one on my floor mat. Took the new one out, put the original 225k mile one back in and now the clutches feel the same.

Just an opinion from the other side of the "replace everything" camp. If you're troubleshooting and a new part does not fix the problem - sometimes it's better to put the original one back in and keep searching for the real problem. Other things (water pump during timing belt, etc) make sense for sure given the time/effort to replace the part.
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Old December 21st, 2017, 21:43   #12
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Changed the line today and it wasn't too bad. Popped the air box out and the relay box on the firewall. Unclipped the holding brackets and pulled the retainer on the SS then went to work on the MS clip. I think a ushaped hook would be easy but I couldn't find mine so I went in a 90degree pick. Top? No. Bottom? No. Reaching in from the engine side? Not that way but if I go in BETWEEN the two brake lines there, I may be able to... YES! Good thing I don't have big hands.
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Old December 22nd, 2017, 08:10   #13
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Just a note this isn't a part that wears out based on mileage. It's how often you push in the clutch. Meaning if you're a 100% highway driver or close this will last much longer than the city driver, that is for ever pushing the clutch pedal.
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 06:45   #14
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a major factor in the wear of this part is when the dmf fails it typically goes off center taking the pressure plate off center as well.... this off center condition transmits an oscillation into to release bearing and clutch fork, you can feel this as a vibration in the pedal when the dmf is failing.... when the fork is oscillating it hammers the pivot ball ....there is very little wear induced under normal operating conditions with a stock healthy clutch , although dry dusty conditions can accelerate this
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Old December 23rd, 2017, 07:25   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbote View Post
a major factor in the wear of this part is when the dmf fails it typically goes off center taking the pressure plate off center as well.... this off center condition transmits an oscillation into to release bearing and clutch fork, you can feel this as a vibration in the pedal when the dmf is failing.... when the fork is oscillating it hammers the pivot ball ....there is very little wear induced under normal operating conditions with a stock healthy clutch , although dry dusty conditions can accelerate this
This car was a five speed swap 50,000 miles ago and the DMF was fine. BUT I have no idea what the DMF was like in the car that this trans came out of so that could very well be the case here. But then we are just a bunch of clubbies poking around on the internet and guessing and what others have done.
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