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General Automotive General automotive discussion. This is intended to be a discussion about other not VW and Diesel cars you may have or interested in.

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Old December 7th, 2017, 12:40   #3796
aja8888
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Diverting off the thread content, a good, thought provoking read on the history of "sapiens" can be purchased here:

Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind

https://www.amazon.com/dp/0062316095/ref=rdr_ext_tmb

This is a NY Times best seller book.
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Old December 7th, 2017, 16:12   #3797
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Population growth is the biggest issue. Everything mankind does or does not do is ultimately tied to that.
Bingo.

FWIW, Jason and I are also doing our part.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 01:50   #3798
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To be perfectly honest, 'clean air', or environmental concerns, didn't factor in to my EV lease decision at all - it was a 100% economic/efficiency decision. Not every EV driver is out there trying to 'save the world'... I was just trying to afford more beer.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 05:08   #3799
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Bingo.

FWIW, Jason and I are also doing our part.
I am too, but not by choice.

I would, however, be thoughtful of planning for your future, as without children, you may not have someone to help with you as you age. So filling a driveway of a house that isn't even yours with expensive cars may not be the wisest economic decision unless you have a LOT of disposable income. Investment in real estate (your own, not someone else's) and sacking away as high of a percentage of your income before taxes as the gov't allows annually will pay out later in life.

And know that, as a car guy, this fact kinda sucks. But, that's the way it goes. Fortunately I can get "my fix" with cars and still earn a living. I could not imagine NOT having my career and my hobby being completely different. I certainly couldn't afford it.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 10:30   #3800
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... walk to work -- walk to store .. walk to doctor...

... me thinks not.
My grandparents and great grandparents did it this way. Farm the land you live on to be mostly self sustaining. Use your livestock for work, food, and fertilizer. Doctor yourselves, as much as possible. They must have survived because I'm here.

At one point, 40 acres and a mule was enough for anyone to survive on.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 10:52   #3801
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To be perfectly honest, 'clean air', or environmental concerns, didn't factor in to my EV lease decision at all - it was a 100% economic/efficiency decision. Not every EV driver is out there trying to 'save the world'... I was just trying to afford more beer.
For me, it started with buying a couple of electric bikes for my wife & I. Not only are they totally fun, I found I could ride it up to ~50 miles on a charge. A lot of guys call them "cheater" bikes but they are the great equalizer when going out on a ride with my wife. She simply uses more electric assist to keep up to me. We both end up great exercise and ride longer distances.

Before that, my take on electric cars was that they were expensive toys for the eccentric left wingers, and greenpeace activists. They made zero financial sense, and for that matter, the environmental benefits were marginal. Reading about the degradation on Leaf batteries confirmed my bias against them. I had made up my mind that EVs were pretty much a joke funded by taxpayers.

I started looking into solar as a hobby project, and more about sticking it to the power company than anything to do with the environment. I started out running the numbers on 4 panels, but the project morphed into 41. After minimizing the cost of the project by going with 5-year old panels and doing a lot of my own DIY - I got it done at under $2/watt (the local installer was quoting $4.50).

We were exporting a lot of power to the grid, especially in the summer. Because our base power rates are pretty low, it bugged me that I was basically giving it away for next to nothing so that the POCO could just turn around and sell it to my neighbors for a tidy profit. That's when I took a serious look at EVs. I was absolutely floored at how cheap you could pick up a nearly new, very low mileage "used" EV for. I ran the numbers, and it made sense for us.

The rest is history. So, I guess you could say I'm "doing my part" (for the environment) - but really, it was unintentional and only a side effect of looking for ways to save money while sticking it to the man.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 11:16   #3802
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I am too, but not by choice.

I would, however, be thoughtful of planning for your future, as without children, you may not have someone to help with you as you age. So filling a driveway of a house that isn't even yours with expensive cars may not be the wisest economic decision unless you have a LOT of disposable income. Investment in real estate (your own, not someone else's) and sacking away as high of a percentage of your income before taxes as the gov't allows annually will pay out later in life.

And know that, as a car guy, this fact kinda sucks. But, that's the way it goes. Fortunately I can get "my fix" with cars and still earn a living. I could not imagine NOT having my career and my hobby being completely different. I certainly couldn't afford it.
Some great forward thinking and planning in Oilhammer's post. Not too many young people think about how to plan for the last few innings of their lives. I got serious about it at 50 (kind of late) and set myself up so that my daughter won't be burdened with me near the end. But she will be there if necessary.

And remember, our government that is generous with energy and environmental rebates for these expensive electric and hybrid cars won't be giving you any help when you may need it.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 12:23   #3803
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Originally Posted by kjclow View Post
My grandparents and great grandparents did it this way.

Farm the land you live on to be mostly self sustaining. Use your livestock for work, food, and fertilizer.

Doctor yourselves, as much as possible.

.. snip... At one point, 40 acres and a mule was enough for anyone to survive on.


.... hmmmmmmm

.... at the turn of the last century (1900) was the life expectancy 42-ish?

.... It was a rare breed who knew all his/her grandchildren.
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6,073 miles ~~ Buy Back will yield $25,625. ~~ FIX would yield $8,000-ish
Come June, 2018, Buy Back yields 3 years FREE driving & $5,130 cash profit. - 'bout $5 per day
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Old December 8th, 2017, 13:38   #3804
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It was closer to 50 at the turn of the century. That plummeted about 12 years during the 1918 flu pandemic though. Safe to say it wasn't exercise that was killing them.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 13:51   #3805
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And remember, our government that is generous with energy and environmental rebates for these expensive electric and hybrid cars won't be giving you any help when you may need it.
Financial / retirement planning really has nothing to do with EVs, or our government(s) funding of a variety of programs such as medicare, food stamps, social & homeland security, welfare, etc. I think it's important to realize that when government reduces or stops funding one program - the "saved" money seldom gets reallocated to programs we may approve of, or at all.
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Old December 8th, 2017, 15:06   #3806
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Financial / retirement planning really has nothing to do with EVs, or our government(s) funding of a variety of programs such as medicare, food stamps, social & homeland security, welfare, etc. I think it's important to realize that when government reduces or stops funding one program - the "saved" money seldom gets reallocated to programs we may approve of, or at all.
It all comes out of the same pot (taxpayer money).

My point was that the gov will not take care of you when you are destitute unless you are disabled or can get in a Medicaid nursing home, and if you haven't seen one of those, it ain't the Ritz,
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Old December 9th, 2017, 08:58   #3807
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It was closer to 50 at the turn of the century. That plummeted about 12 years during the 1918 flu pandemic though. Safe to say it wasn't exercise that was killing them.
My lineage has typically survived to 70s and 80s as far back as the late 1700s. War influences not included. Thatís why I look at retirement modeling through age 100.
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Old December 9th, 2017, 09:05   #3808
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For me, it started with buying a couple of electric bikes for my wife & I. Not only are they totally fun, I found I could ride it up to ~50 miles on a charge. A lot of guys call them "cheater" bikes but they are the great equalizer when going out on a ride with my wife. She simply uses more electric assist to keep up to me. We both end up great exercise and ride longer distances.
My first though is that I agree about the cheater bike comment but it all depends on your current health and distance youíre trying to cover. We typically ride about 30 miles a day on a weekend ride and anywhere from 10 to 30 miles during the week. For Ragbrai, the average day is about 60 miles a day. I did see one ebike out there this year but have to wonder how long they will be allowed to use them. My wife can keep up with me unless I really want to push for speed. Hitting 35-40 under your own power is a high that no drug can duplicate.
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Old December 9th, 2017, 09:35   #3809
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. Hitting 35-40 under your own power is a high that no drug can duplicate.

In my 50s and 60s, Western, 2 Stepping, & Ballroom dancing (5-6 nights a week) 18 - 22 hours a week, was a kick. Endorphins hit at about 60-90 minuets. Ye ha.

.... 6.5 hours was my MAX time in one night.
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DSG has better MPG at 60 MPH than 6M has at 70 MPH
Fueleconomy.gov -
each 5 mph you drive over 50 mph is like paying an additional $0.18 per gallon
6,073 miles ~~ Buy Back will yield $25,625. ~~ FIX would yield $8,000-ish
Come June, 2018, Buy Back yields 3 years FREE driving & $5,130 cash profit. - 'bout $5 per day
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Old December 9th, 2017, 09:40   #3810
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Generally laws have been trending towards more acceptance of electric bicycles, although with codifying specific restrictions for their use.

The federal laws for what can be sold as a "low-speed electric bicycle" basically boil down to the following: 750 W maximum, must have pedals, and if the rider isn't pedaling, must not be able to exceed 20 mph on level ground.

That says nothing about what you're allowed to use, though.

For comparison, European laws for an electric pedal-assist cycle are: 250 W continuous maximum (note that continuous is after 30 seconds...), must be pedaled to get assistance (except for a 6 km/h (3.7 mph) walking assist mode), and no assistance above 25 km/h (15.5 mph).

There's also an S-Pedelec category in Europe, based on moped laws, that requires licensing and registration, and has reduced access to cycling infrastructure, but is allowed 500 W and 45 km/h (28.0 mph).

As far as what you can use... Some states allow anything that's legal under the federal law, some states allow nothing or classify it as some kind of motorcycle/moped (Ohio and New York come to mind), and then there's the California legislation that is being used as a model elsewhere (including in New York's bill).

The California law designates three kinds of e-bike. All three are 750 W maximum. The first is 20 mph maximum and must be pedaled to get assistance, the second is the same but can use a throttle - otherwise they have the same requirements (IIRC, nobody under 16 operating it, otherwise basically the same as a bicycle), but the class distinction is so that off-road trails can opt to exclude bikes with throttles. The third class is 28 mph maximum and must be pedaled (so an S-Pedelec falls into this class as-is), and has stricter age, helmet, and usage requirements (some cycling infrastructure is unavailable).

Worth noting that the bill in New York is only allowing the first class (which is essentially what NYC has effectively legalized).
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Last edited by bhtooefr; December 9th, 2017 at 10:11. Reason: Adding MPH conversions for km/h speeds
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