Jeep Liberty TDI Conversion

1300 eh? What does it run at during normal highway cruise? Mine would only top 900 on a hill climb at highway speed. Now that I have the injectors, it will hit 1000 easily on the highway. What kind of IAT's are you seeing?

I'm definitely down for some TDI trail running. PA would be about as far as I'd run south for a weekend get together I think. I definitely need to clean the TDI/Jeep parts out the garage too. lol

I need to check my IAT's ...but I am also running a 12mm pump ...so I'm most likely overfueling....gonna swap in a 10mm in a week or so....cruising flat @ 75 somewhere around 750 to 800 but it climbs quickly on a grade

Reddok said:

1300 eh? What does it run at during normal highway cruise? Mine would only top 900 on a hill climb at highway speed. Now that I have the injectors, it will hit 1000 easily on the highway. What kind of IAT's are you seeing?

I'm definitely down for some TDI trail running. PA would be about as far as I'd run south for a weekend get together I think. I definitely need to clean the TDI/Jeep parts out the garage too. lol

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If your ecu tuned? Still running the vnt15? Those egt's aren't terrible for an aerodynamic brick that weights 1000+lb more than a golf/jetta.

When the wife is gone for a couple of hours, swap out her 11mm pump and put your old 5 spd nozzles in there. Exact same power combo as she had before. She'll never know you did anything . (My girlfriend still doesn't know her 11mm from her auto ended up in my roommates 99.5 5 spd with a 2056vk haha. I threw in a set of pp520s to make up for stealing the pump )

To get egt's down, a tune will greatly help if you've put injectors in it. From there, a Colt cam will drop egt's 100-150F and add 10-15whp (according to my dyno testing). From there, I would add a 1756vk turbo which would drop egt's further for the same power levels and add quite a bit of scoot to boot!

My roommates car is a perfect example of a setup that works very well together. It has a 11mm pump, pp764's, mercedes 2056vk, ported head, colt cam, stock intake, stock IC, and straight exhaust. Cruising down the highway at 75mph, egt's sit at 600-626F and we can't manage to peak 1250F. The combo is basically smokeless and the turbo starts boosting at 1800rpm and has full boost by 2200rpm.

jimbote said:

I need to check my IAT's ...but I am also running a 12mm pump ...so I'm most likely overfueling....gonna swap in a 10mm in a week or so....cruising flat @ 75 somewhere around 750 to 800 but it climbs quickly on a grade

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Don't swap out the 12!!! Did you get the thing tuned yet!? The torque difference between an 11 and a 12 with proper tunes is crazy. I can only imagine how nutless the truck would feel with a 10mm. You need some arp head studs, race 520's, and a 2260vk on that thing Jim! A yota with a smokeless 200hp/375tq would be an abosolute riot! With your bottom end and injection pump you're already mostly set up for it!

Egt's are going to climb quickly on a grade when you're driving a brick. Same thing when towing with my jetta; 800-900F on flat ground and 1100-1200F going up small hills towing 2 sport atv's on a 6x8 trailer. About 4000lbs total load.

Whitbread said:

If your ecu tuned? Still running the vnt15? Those egt's aren't terrible for an aerodynamic brick that weights 1000+lb more than a golf/jetta.

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No tune yet. It's up there on the to-do list. Still have the VNT 15. The Jeep is about 4000lbs. I just got finished towing a 2000lb trailer with about 1000lbs of weight in it over 2000kms. Averaged 10l/100km and didn't crack 1250 on the EGT even on some really steep grades. Not bad for 7000lbs.

Whitbread said:

When the wife is gone for a couple of hours, swap out her 11mm pump and put your old 5 spd nozzles in there.

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How much difference does the 11mm pump make? I'd definitely consider sending my 5spd nozzles away for cleaning/balancing and swap them into her car with the 10mm pump if it would make that much difference.

Whitbread said:

From there, I would add a 1756vk turbo which would drop egt's further for the same power levels and add quite a bit of scoot to boot!

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What kind of customization is required to get the 1756vk to bolt up to the ALH? And what kind of power increase is it good for? The PP764 injectors I just swapped in made a huge difference. The truck is really fun to drive now.

Reddok said:

No tune yet. It's up there on the to-do list. Still have the VNT 15. The Jeep is about 4000lbs. I just got finished towing a 2000lb trailer with about 1000lbs of weight in it over 2000kms. Averaged 10l/100km and didn't crack 1250 on the EGT even on some really steep grades. Not bad for 7000lbs.

How much difference does the 11mm pump make? I'd definitely consider sending my 5spd nozzles away for cleaning/balancing and swap them into her car with the 10mm pump if it would make that much difference.

What kind of customization is required to get the 1756vk to bolt up to the ALH? And what kind of power increase is it good for? The PP764 injectors I just swapped in made a huge difference. The truck is really fun to drive now.

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Holy cow! You're not going to know what to do with yourself when you get a tune! Get a loader from Malone or TD Tuning, best money you'll ever spend. They can shut off what ever DTC's you still may have and can do all kinds of other cool stuff.

That's not bad at all! That's why I'm really thinking about getting a liberty CRD and swapping the same trans you have into it.

The 11mm makes a huge difference . It's a solid 20-30hp gain if you have the air to support the extra fuel. My roommates car was decently quick with the 2056vk, 10mm, and pp764's. But when we tossed on the 11mm, WOW.

To fit the 1756vk on there you would either need a custom tubular header or use one of the many different cast manifolds out there with an adapter plate. A BHW (b5.5 passat) manifold with an adapter plate from RyanP comes to mind for bang to buck ratio if you have the sideways room to fit the combo. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=320713

The thing I'd consider when swapping 11mm/10mm pumps is: the girlfriend's automatic won't suffer from the 10mm if it's a stock tune. I'm not sure why VW even put 11mm pumps on the automatics. Maybe they knew that we'd be ripping them off for proper builds? LOL!

11mm pump will push significantly more fuel... I'd shoot for an 18 or 20 series turbo!

Whitbread said:

Holy cow! You're not going to know what to do with yourself when you get a tune! Get a loader from Malone or TD Tuning, best money you'll ever spend. They can shut off what ever DTC's you still may have and can do all kinds of other cool stuff.

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I have a VAG-COM and the ability to dump/load my own eeproms. Already modified to run the 3bar map. Just haven't had time to figure out the tune. I can't wait until I can get it done... I might consider paying someone to do it so I can just have it sooner...

Whitbread said:

That's not bad at all! That's why I'm really thinking about getting a liberty CRD and swapping the same trans you have into it.

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I don't believe that works. I think the NSG370 has a different bellhousing or flywheel pattern than the VM CRD motor. The other problem lies in the fact there never was a manual transmission option, so the ECU will not be happy. Unless you are in Europe. Then you have the 2.5 CRDs with the factory manual trans' that we didn't get over here...

thanks for the reassurance Matt ....I was worried something was seriously wrong....the pp502's are at DFIS getting checked and rebalanced on a different set of bodies....I'm running T4's at the moment but the truck is no longer fun to drive ....and I do have a 1756VK on the way to replace my 1749VA!! ...Jeff did the tune at Dan's GTG but my EGT's went crazy so Frank set me up with the T4's in hopes it would drop the EGT's (keep in mind it was hellishly hot down in SC at the time) ....not a significant change with the T4's ....yeah I love my 12mm so it's stayin!!...as for future tunes I'm going with vwmikel in L.V. ....he said he could write out all the missing message codes plus we'd be able to work through the issues via emailo'tune ...getting pretty excited about the truck with good fueling and a proper turbo !!

Reddok said:

I have a VAG-COM and the ability to dump/load my own eeproms. Already modified to run the 3bar map. Just haven't had time to figure out the tune. I can't wait until I can get it done... I might consider paying someone to do it so I can just have it sooner...

I don't believe that works. I think the NSG370 has a different bellhousing or flywheel pattern than the VM CRD motor. The other problem lies in the fact there never was a manual transmission option, so the ECU will not be happy. Unless you are in Europe. Then you have the 2.5 CRDs with the factory manual trans' that we didn't get over here...

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I don't mind paying for tuning at all because I feel it's an artform just like welding or airbrushing. Sure, you can read every book in the world on it and know the theory, but only experience will tell you how to fix a stumble at 2500rpm under light load only when the motor is warm.

Ah, well maybe it's not the ngs370. All I know I've seen two 6 spd liberty crd's in canada so the parts are out there! I'm handy enough with frakensteining parts and either VW Mike, Malone, or GDE could make the ecu a stick I'm sure. It's just one of those "in a year or two I'd really like to..." projects.

jimbote said:

thanks for the reassurance Matt ....I was worried something was seriously wrong....the pp502's are at DFIS getting checked and rebalanced on a different set of bodies....I'm running T4's at the moment but the truck is no longer fun to drive ....and I do have a 1756VK on the way to replace my 1749VA!! ...Jeff did the tune at Dan's GTG but my EGT's went crazy so Frank set me up with the T4's in hopes it would drop the EGT's (keep in mind it was hellishly hot down in SC at the time) ....not a significant change with the T4's ....yeah I love my 12mm so it's stayin!!...as for future tunes I'm going with vwmikel in L.V. ....he said he could write out all the missing message codes plus we'd be able to work through the issues via emailo'tune ...getting pretty excited about the truck with good fueling and a proper turbo !!

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Haha, no fuel = no fun ! Wait till you get a tune and the 1756vk on there. I want a ride in it then! Going with a bhw passat manifold and adapter plate from RyanP?

Whitbread said:

I don't mind paying for tuning at all because I feel it's an artform just like welding or airbrushing. Sure, you can read every book in the world on it and know the theory, but only experience will tell you how to fix a stumble at 2500rpm under light load only when the motor is warm.

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It's definitely an artform. I've been tuning gas engines for a few years now, but diesel EDC ECUs are a steep learning curve. That being said, no one is going to spend as much time trying to dial in a tune as I will, so with enough time, the end result will be the best if I do it myself.

Whitbread said:

Ah, well maybe it's not the ngs370. All I know I've seen two 6 spd liberty crd's in canada so the parts are out there!

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It looks like the bellhousings are the same, so it must just be an export market flywheel and either the export ECU or a tune - it uses a bosch EDC ecu similar to our TDIs. Got any links to any of the Canadian 6spd swaps? I'd love to see them. I thought I was the only one who attempted an auto to manual on a Liberty.

Whitbread said:

Haha, no fuel = no fun ! Wait till you get a tune and the 1756vk on there. I want a ride in it then! Going with a bhw passat manifold and adapter plate from RyanP?

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well i'm already running the BHW exhaust mani with the pd130 turbo....so at the least I'll be ordering the adapter from Ryan.... found a killer deal on a 1756vk elsewhere so i had to jump on it ....and definitely gonna crash your scene on my next cross country foray.....so yeah a test drive will be in order !!

Reddok....hope were not clogging your thread with too much irelevance.... but whenever Matt adds his boundless enthusiasm things just seem to snowball

Congrats on the awesome swap.

Did you end up having to drill a hole in your gas cap?

yrktreg said:

Congrats on the awesome swap.

Did you end up having to drill a hole in your gas cap?

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No, it works fine with the stock 'gas' cap. I did have to add a vent to my tank so it would fill properly as the vent was in the gas sending unit and the diesel sending unit did not have a vent in it.

Reddok said:

No, it works fine with the stock 'gas' cap. I did have to add a vent to my tank so it would fill properly as the vent was in the gas sending unit and the diesel sending unit did not have a vent in it.

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Gotcha that makes sense.

Again congrats on an awesome swap

Did you ever get the tach to work?

VWAofWisconsin said:

Did you ever get the tach to work?

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Not yet. I haven't had the time required to develop a solution. Either I need to install the tdi cluster, remove the tach motor and install it into the jeep dash while using the tdi cluster to drive it. Or learn to program micro controllers and use one to convert the tdi cpk sensor pulses to a format the jeep ecu can understand. I will probably do the latter.

If I had kept the tone ring and CPS from the 3.7, it would have been easy to mock something up on the front of the TDI, but I have neither, so the cheaper option is a microcontroller. I'm just trying to find some time to play around with it. The micro should also allow me to do VSS conversion as well - that should allow me to get the VW cruise control working again.

I used to live not too far from Brighton. I don't get up that way anymore, but if you're down this way, let me know - I'm always up for chatting about the swap.

You should start a build thread! What are you planning on using for a transmission? $1000 seems a little high for machine shop costs, but I guess it depends on how complicated you make your adapters. I kept mine as simple as possible and my costs were about half of that including materials.

You do realize the auto is computer controlled and will require all the electronics to be functioning in order to shift. Electronics that the MTD does not have.

The easiest way to do the swap would be to use a manual toyota transmission, the acme adapter and move the entire engine 3" forward.

My adapter plate was 1" thick to retain the original engine/transmission mounting location. And I still had to significantly clearance the firewall - and it's still too close for my liking.

You will have to use an aftermarket tach and an alternator with a W terminal. The Liberty tach will not take an external hookup. As well, if you remove the Liberty ECU, your fuel gauge, speedometer and temperature gauge will not function.

Have you thought about an intercooler? There is not alot of room in the front of a Liberty to mount one. I ended up using Jeep CRD stuff, but it's expensive and hard to find. Cost over $1000 for my rad/intercooler setup.

You can put the Jeep MAP into the tdi, it just won't read boost. You'll also need a throttle position sensor. I can't see any feasible way of mounting a cam sensor to the TDI engine that would allow it to sync in the appropriate pulse window with the crank sensor. That pulse has to occur in the correct spot or the Jeep ECU will not start triggering injection events. This is why I'm going to be using a micro controller eventually to get my tach working.

I don't think you'll be happy with the auto. The shift points are wrong for the diesel, and if you retain the stock ECU programming, you'll over-rev the TDI the first time you put the pedal down. If you manually control the transmission, you will lose the lock-up function. There are special adapters for the transmissions with cable driven speedos that can engage the lockup though.

I was thinking about it, and something like that might work. There is no room for the vacuum pump at the back of the motor anyway - so if you machined a custom piece to fit in the cam, you may be able to mount some form of cam wheel back there.

As for the CRD motors, they use a different torque converter and different programming for the transmission. As far as I know only GDE does custom tunes for the Liberty, but the CRD uses a completely different ECU than the gas Liberty and as far as I know, no one can program the JTEC Liberty ECU.

There is a guy on the forums here who has an chrysler auto behind a TDI using pushbuttons or something likt that to shift it, but last I read he was going to pull it out and swap in a stick.

VW diesels already have vacuum pumps.

Ski in NC said:

VW diesels already have vacuum pumps.

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lol, yes they do... But TDI's in Libertys leave no room to leave them in there. The firewall is in the way. I used the BFH method to relocate that part of my firewall, but then it comes pretty close to contacting the heater core on the inside.

He was looking for a way to drive a Jeep cam sensor off a TDI cam.

Could the jeep tone ring be modified to fit on cam or IP sprockets, then sensor bracketed to sense that?

Regarding the vac pump, can engine be moved forward to get clearance at firewall? I guess engine bay is too tight for that??

I think the crank tone ring could mount to the crank of the tdi pretty easily. I haven't looked too closely at the cam tone ring, but I imagine it is doable.

I would HIGHLY recommend anyone attempting this swap move the engine/trans 3" forward to eliminate clearance issues.

The starter being on the drivers side of the Jeep poses a huge issue. A 2002 starter will not fit. They changed them in 03 or 04 and that one is a smaller diameter. It will fit. Barely. But not without your engine clocking angle being very precise and grinding away some of the oil pan.

m036094, if you want an automatic diesel Jeep Liberty, why not just sell yours and get a CRD? It would be much more wife friendly and require a lot less work. I only average 28mpg out of mine with the fat tires and lift. With the auto, you would be lucky to get the same. A CRD Liberty will average 25mpg and you can get them up to 30mpg on the highway. I wouldn't want to spend 6-12 months and $5k - 10K converting something that I could just go out and buy for a few grand plus my existing vehicle.

In addition, my swap isn't really wife-friendly although I'm working on fixing that. It requires toggling my cam sensor spoof button until the Jeep ECU starts firing so I get my cooling fan and A/C. There is very little heat for the first 15 minutes of driving. Even that was too long for me - I ended up adding heated seats to cope. And it's noisy. Even after re-visiting my motor mounts. I've added sound deadening (The gas Liberty has very little) and am constantly working on the exhaust system to try and cancel out drone.

The payback time in terms of fuel savings will probably be another year before it equals what I spent on the swap. Probably 5 more years after that to account for my time. I will probably get bored and sell it before then. lol

It's been awhile since I've posted, but as with any conversion, it's always a work in progress. Still trying to make it quieter inside the Jeep. Installed a magnaflow high flow 2.5" diesel cat 2 weeks ago, and then a 2.5" magnaflow muffler last weekend:




The cat got rid of some drone - not much but noticeable. The muffler had about the same effect - not much, but noticeable. I cut the factory muffler open to see what was inside. I was surprised to find no fibreglass at all. Just 3 perforated tubes and a couple of chambers. The perforated tubes were plugged with soot, so hopefully the straight-through design of the magnaflow will prevent that from happening.

Today I finally got around to installing a tune. What a difference! I'd say it was similar to the power gains I got from the PP764 injectors. Felt like a 30-40% power increase each time. This thing really pulls now! Might have to try and get out to the next dyno day and see how much actual power I've gained.

Reddok said:

Today I finally got around to installing a tune. What a difference! I'd say it was similar to the power gains I got from the PP764 injectors. Felt like a 30-40% power increase each time. This thing really pulls now! Might have to try and get out to the next dyno day and see how much actual power I've gained.

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How long ago did I yell at Jimbote and you that there's no excuse for an electronic tdi without a tune!!!!????

If you think that's nuts, wait till you do toss on a VK series turbo!

Whitbread said:

How long ago did I yell at Jimbote and you that there's no excuse for an electronic tdi without a tune!!!!????

If you think that's nuts, wait till you do toss on a VK series turbo!

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Haha! .... yeah I know.....I don't have any excuse now as I got a nice little package from vwmikel the other day