HPFP died but what about the tank fuel pump

chaos88

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Location
Ottawa, ON Canada
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI SE
I have what appears to be an "hpfp failure" and I'm getting ready to replace it.
The car is a 2012 TDI SE, about 95.000 Kms. I don't have a lot of details from when it happened because my daughter was driving it at the time. When I got there it would crank up but no start whatsoever.
The dealer wanted 6500 + and a few shops I took the car to were very hesitant on tackling the job. One of them actually told that I should go to the dealer because they have a special machine that will clean the whole installation. So I decided to do the job myself and I'm in the process of gathering parts and tools.
Now what about the diesel pump in the tank? Is it necessary to replace that as well? Or maybe there is a way of testing that out. Has anybody done a test to confirm that it is broken and needs replacement as well? I just hate the idea of "need to replace everything in the fuel installation" when the hpfp fails. I was thinking of taking all components apart and clean them thoroughly, including the fuel tank of course. I didn't see much metal filing residue but then I was told that it does not take much and they are very small, barely visible.
Anybody has any experience with that?
Thanks much,
 

Fixmy59bug

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 1, 2009
Location
Las Vegas, NV
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SE
Vw tells us (dealers) to replace EVERYTHING the fuel touches (except for the tank and the fuel lines that go from tank to the engine bay).

The tank gets drained and wiped clean. The lines front to rear get flushed and blown out.

If the HPFP did actually let go, there will be metal shrapnel throughout the entire fuel system. If any of this shrapnel gets missed and makes its way into the new HPFP, it could cause it to fail and you would be back at square 1.
 

turbobrick240

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2014
Location
maine
TDI
2011 vw golf tdi(gone to greener pastures), 2001 ford f250 powerstroke
The magnets inside the tank and auxiliary pumps make it almost impossible to remove 100% of the ferrous debris. The fuel filter should catch what little remains, but if any sneaks through during a filter change etc., it won't be good.
 
Last edited:

rustycat

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2012
Location
seattle
TDI
2015 passat sel
I have what appears to be an "hpfp failure" and I'm getting ready to replace it.
The car is a 2012 TDI SE, about 95.000 Kms. I don't have a lot of details from when it happened because my daughter was driving it at the time. When I got there it would crank up but no start whatsoever.
The dealer wanted 6500 + and a few shops I took the car to were very hesitant on tackling the job. One of them actually told that I should go to the dealer because they have a special machine that will clean the whole installation. So I decided to do the job myself and I'm in the process of gathering parts and tools.
Now what about the diesel pump in the tank? Is it necessary to replace that as well? Or maybe there is a way of testing that out. Has anybody done a test to confirm that it is broken and needs replacement as well? I just hate the idea of "need to replace everything in the fuel installation" when the hpfp fails. I was thinking of taking all components apart and clean them thoroughly, including the fuel tank of course. I didn't see much metal filing residue but then I was told that it does not take much and they are very small, barely visible.
Anybody has any experience with that?
Thanks much,
I believe the HPFP replacement would be covered in the US under the terms of the extended warranty mandated in the settlement. Is that not the same in Canada?
 

chaos88

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Location
Ottawa, ON Canada
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI SE
Not sure about the warranty

I'm not sure about the warranty and this is an American car not a Canadian one.
It was brought in Canada by a used car dealership in Toronto. It's where I got it from.
Now for warranty work I have to take it back to US and unfortunately there is no VW dealership near by. The closest crossing point is Ogdensburg and no dealerships there or close by. I'd have to drive to Syracuse or something similar.
Now to reply to the second comment, about the magnets in the tank and auxiliary pumps.
Are they actually catching up anything? Aren't those suppose to catch the metal filings and prevent them from spreading throughout the installation? So to clean the stuff you would just have to clean those. And BTW, which auxiliary pump are we talking about? I'm only aware of the pump in the tank (low pressure) and then the hpfp (high pressure). Are there others?

Best regards,
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
My experience with fixing a couple of these:

I had to replace the HPFP (obviously), the injectors, the rail pressure regulator and the rail pressure sensor, and the injector return hose/valve assembly.

The rest of it I thoroughly cleaned out, blew out, etc. I took the lift pump out of the tank and tied magnets to a string and drug it around the tank to get any little bits of metal I could, then ran the lift pump to clean it out as well as the auxiliary electric pump, new filter, got it running, then a new filter again right away (although I did not see anything in the filter canister second time around).

I did find out that KermaTDI (vendor here) can clean the injectors and get them working again.

Those cars were still on the road ~30k miles later, but have since been moved along (fleet) so no idea what happened after that.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
I did find out that KermaTDI (vendor here) can clean the injectors and get them working again.

Working is slightly different than trouble free for another 100K as new units. The solenoids based injectors are cheap enough to just replace right?

Just replacing a failed HPFP can get the car working again, but it'll fail within a very short period of time.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
You'll have to ask Kerma about the injector specifics. But he says he has had success taking them apart and cleaning them and putting them back together.

I would think that if something I did was not right, it would have failed in short order, and neither one did. But I was exceeding thorough in cleaning everything, spent a whole say on just that.

The first go around I tried to do it without the injectors, but come to find out the crud causes them to hang up, and ANY of the injectors doing so will cause them to bypass, which means no rail pressure. I did not know about Kerma's ability to clean them until after the second one I did, in which case I just went ahead and got new ones anyway. However I still had the old ones from the second job and sent them to him.
 

chaos88

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Location
Ottawa, ON Canada
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI SE
Well, for the time being I'm still waiting for the VAG-COM tool to arrive and the T40055 tool, so I haven't started to actually take it apart.
I have doubts about the fuel rail. I think that could be cleaned along with the pressure regulator which has a crazy small filter on it but it can still be cleaned. The injectors, there is not place near by to have them cleaned, at least I don't know of any. But I'll try to test them somehow first before replacing them. Not sure why the high price tag on them but then again nothing surprises me anymore about VW.
I do have doubts about the fuel pump in the tank. What if the hpfp failure was caused by a defective low pressure pump which failed to supply proper fuel flow hence starving the hpfp, hence causing lack of lubrication, hence causing the actual failure of it.

That's where I'm thinking to start with and then carry on from there. I already have a replacement for the hpfp. Can the old one be taken apart and checked for signs of premature damage. What exactly fails on it. There is also what appears to some kind of a sensor on it.
Is that a pressure sensor. Is it possible that it may fail and signal the hpfp as failed, hence shutting down the engine?

I'd like to learn more about how the system works before I jump to conclusion. Swapping parts is expensive in this case and it shouldn't come before proper troubleshooting.

Thanks and BR
 

roni024

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 31, 2007
Location
Syracuse, NY
TDI
2015 Passat TDI SEL DSG
If you run a (duckduckgo/google) search, you may be able to find a VW self study program with the info you're looking for.
 

chaos88

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Location
Ottawa, ON Canada
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI SE
I have done quite a bit of research but so far didn't come across anything about VW admiting the problem and most important, coming up with a solution of some sort, i.e. update part desingn etc.
Same as the blue heater issue where they will sell you the complete tank, $400+ in Canada, plus another $400 or so for the replacement. It is something that appears to plague the industry with other makers being affected, i.e. Mercedes.
On the other hand people that own the cars have been able to come up with a solution to replace only the heating/sensing element and doing the repair themselves.
No recall of some sort from VW or Mercedes.
Now if you did come across some VW study program where they would perhaps present some sort of details and a solution, please share. I'd welcome any information that might help, not necessarily for the moment only but also in the long run. Is there maybe some kind of preventative maintenance that will avoid the issue in the future.

Thanks and BR,
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Huh? There are several TSBs regarding HPFP failures. Well known issue, even if it isn't as common as you'd think. I've seen FAR more turbocharger failures, DPF failures, pressure sensor failures, intake failures, frozen intercoolers, bad pressure sensing glow plugs, etc. than I have seen HPFP failures.
 

chaos88

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Location
Ottawa, ON Canada
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI SE
still no go

Ok, so I replace everything except the injectors. Not even an intention.
Is is possible that all 4 injectors are so clogged that the car doesn't even attempt to start?
I made sure I prime the installation using the vcds (aprox. 5 min).
To me it looks and sound exactly as day one. Cranks but that's about it.
No code either.
I got a small leak on the injector 1 so definitely there is fuel reaching the ijectors.

Any clues?

BR,
Dumitru
 

afarfalla

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Location
sugar land tx
TDI
05 Passat sedan and 05 wagen
fuel pressure regulator clogged? When you get it running add a 2 micron fuel filter between the HPFP and the OEM fuel filter, all your shrapnel will be contained in the 2 micron filter
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Ok, so I replace everything except the injectors. Not even an intention.
Is is possible that all 4 injectors are so clogged that the car doesn't even attempt to start?
I made sure I prime the installation using the vcds (aprox. 5 min).
To me it looks and sound exactly as day one. Cranks but that's about it.
No code either.
I got a small leak on the injector 1 so definitely there is fuel reaching the ijectors.
Any clues?
BR,
Dumitru
So, like I already stated, you need to address the injectors.
 

chaos88

Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2018
Location
Ottawa, ON Canada
TDI
2012 VW Passat TDI SE
Well, unfortunately the old injectors had to come out.
Took me a while to get replacements. I just installed them over the weekend and now the car is up and running. I'm glad I had the VCDS to be able to code them in. I wonder if I could somehow clean them.
Anyways it's all good so far, no leaks and it appears to be working normally.
I'm still not sure if it's the quality of the diesel fuel or the piss poor VW design for the injection pump. Anyhow I started to use an additive for each tank of fuel. I can't go through this ordeal again. It's just to expensive and time consuming.

On another note, I see that governments are starting to take action in phasing out diesel cars. At least that is the case in Europe. I think that's a shame. Diesel is still the most economic and efficient transportation.

Anybody heard anything about that in North America?

BR,
Dumitru
 

BRIAN427COBRA

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Location
Sanger, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta, 2015 Passat SEL
My new to me 2015 Passat with 28k miles suffered a HPFP failure today, had it towed to the dealer, should be back on the road next week, I emailed 2micron asking if he was still making his kits
 

BRIAN427COBRA

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Location
Sanger, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta, 2015 Passat SEL
I dont think they were ever made for the 2015 CVCA or CRUA engine codes.
I think you’re right, but I also think I can adapt the 2microntech filter to the HPFP, and possibly use the NickTang setup to filter the return fuel, or just use 2 NickTang kits to do both and eliminate the factory fuel filter assy all together, when I get my car back in a week or two I’ll know for sure, I may just park my Passat and put another 200k on my 03 Jetta.
 
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