VW Rejecting Non-Clean Titles?

emeraldzippy · Aug 14, 2017

Got offer letter Friday, full buyback and restitution. Signed and returned.
Accepted today, appt. scheduled.
Will update after appt and check in hand.

Excited to be done with this and find a trusty ALH or 2006 tdi Jetta; can't imagine driving anything else with less torque/mpg.

Background: car title branded October 2015, acquired by me late 2016.

fookin · Aug 14, 2017

Just got a request for my two 2.0 claims to submit "proof_of_not_salvaged" which I've confirmed is bill-of-sale. I will fax and snail-mail follow-up. Looking forward to closure. It's been 16 weeks since I've submitted my claims.

duratitus · Aug 14, 2017

There are a lot of us who have had the "Proof of not salvaged" request, and have uploaded the Bill of Sale with no further movement.

I think it's just a stall tactic, so don't get your hopes too high that this will be resolved anytime soon.

I echo looking forward to closure right with you!

fookin · Aug 15, 2017

Duratitus, during a chat session with the settlement site I read it should be 20 days once my submitted bill or sale is received (usually up to 2 days) to move out of step 15. Not that that means anything as it's just one person at the website with an opinion but it's better than no information at all. I think.

I'm guessing the VW request for bill of sale (aka their "proof of not salvage") on top of what they already request (DL, registration, and title) is to verify the car doesn't fall under the "AND" clause of salvage title on Sept 18, 2015 AND purchased from a junkyard after Sept 18, 2015. However, the bill of sale doesn't at all tell that story completely as it's just a record of the last sale. So then, what's the point of the request?

lvrpl · Aug 15, 2017

emeraldzippy said:
Got offer letter Friday, full buyback and restitution. Signed and returned.
Accepted today, appt. scheduled.
Will update after appt and check in hand.

Excited to be done with this and find a trusty ALH or 2006 tdi Jetta; can't imagine driving anything else with less torque/mpg.

Background: car title branded October 2015, acquired by me late 2016.

Thanks again for the update.

If you don't mind, did you end up also snail mailing in the document? Just wondering if I still need to do that after sending it in via fax the way you did. Thanks.

emeraldzippy · Aug 15, 2017

lvrpl said:
Thanks again for the update.
If you don't mind, did you end up also snail mailing in the document? Just wondering if I still need to do that after sending it in via fax the way you did. Thanks.

I didn't. I got that fax number late in the day and it went asap, but the next morning the portal said "received and being reviewed", so I skipped snail mail.

For what it's worth, here is the wording from the letter I sent to CRC right before all this movement with my claim finally started happening:

"Good day,

As there seems to be a delay on my claim, I thought I would provide some documentation regarding the vehicle’s history and exactly when it became “salvaged”, to clarify its legal inclusion and explicit eligibility in the settlement.

Neither party was injured in this incident, so a publicly available accident report was not taken. However, you will find the Deputy Report of Incident #xxxx attached, which catalogs the date of the incident (October XXth, 2015) and verifies the vehicle involved as being my vehicle (License Plate # xxxxxx at time of incident, presently xxxxxxx), the same vehicle represented in this settlement with VWGoA claim #xxxxxxxxx. This document was requested directly from Dxxxxx Police Department in Dxxxxxxx, CA, is a county certified document, and has been highlighted by myself with red and yellow boxes to ease location of critical information.

I have included an additional document entitled “AUXILIARY” which is an incident report involving the same vehicle (from a separate date and scenario that did not affect title status), that illustrates the vehicle’s License Plate (xxxxxxx) and corresponding VIN (3VWPL7AJ9Xxxxxxxx). This county certified document has also been adorned with red boxes, by myself, to ease location of critical information.

I am positive the Committee is very busy, but if there is any way I can receive a response of receipt of this email, in a timely manner, it would be greatly appreciated."

A week after sending this I received a "we're reviewing your email" email, and then the subsequent request for bill of sale and on to appt booking. Maybe this email and docs helped, maybe not.

Sorry for the long post.

lvrpl · Aug 15, 2017

emeraldzippy said:
I didn't. I got that fax number late in the day and it went asap, but the next morning the portal said "received and being reviewed", so I skipped snail mail.
For what it's worth, here is the wording from the letter I sent to CRC right before all this movement with my claim finally started happening:
"Good day,
As there seems to be a delay on my claim, I thought I would provide some documentation regarding the vehicle’s history and exactly when it became “salvaged”, to clarify its legal inclusion and explicit eligibility in the settlement.
Neither party was injured in this incident, so a publicly available accident report was not taken. However, you will find the Deputy Report of Incident #xxxx attached, which catalogs the date of the incident (October XXth, 2015) and verifies the vehicle involved as being my vehicle (License Plate # xxxxxx at time of incident, presently xxxxxxx), the same vehicle represented in this settlement with VWGoA claim #xxxxxxxxx. This document was requested directly from Dxxxxx Police Department in Dxxxxxxx, CA, is a county certified document, and has been highlighted by myself with red and yellow boxes to ease location of critical information.
I have included an additional document entitled “AUXILIARY” which is an incident report involving the same vehicle (from a separate date and scenario that did not affect title status), that illustrates the vehicle’s License Plate (xxxxxxx) and corresponding VIN (3VWPL7AJ9Xxxxxxxx). This county certified document has also been adorned with red boxes, by myself, to ease location of critical information.
I am positive the Committee is very busy, but if there is any way I can receive a response of receipt of this email, in a timely manner, it would be greatly appreciated."
A week after sending this I received a "we're reviewing your email" email, and then the subsequent request for bill of sale and on to appt booking. Maybe this email and docs helped, maybe not.
Sorry for the long post.

This is great, thanks for the info!

fookin · Aug 16, 2017

I was told by the settlement portal chat session that because my claims were for a salvage titled car (I'm an owner, not a dealer) the 20 days review time didn't apply because they were trying to figure things out. But now that they've requested the bill-of-sale they have stated the 20 review time now applies to my claim. Fingers crossed.

duratitus · Aug 16, 2017

Yesterday I spoke again with Phong Nguyen, the lead attorney handling the VW case @ Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP.
Mr. Phong is in direct contact with lawyers from Volkswagen, as well as members of the Claims Review Committee (CRC).

Mr. Phong repeated to me that VW has placed an indefinite hold on all claims with a branded title pending negotiation.
Currently the CRC is working with both sides on a remedy to address how to move forward on vehicles with more than one eligible claimant.
Specifically, owners who's vehicles were totaled after 9/18/2016, and are eligible for seller restitution.

These owners currently have until 9/1/2018 to register their claim as an elligble seller (Unlike owners who's vehicle was totaled before 6/28/2016, and had to have registered as an elligible seller before 9/16/2016)
Therefore, if the vehicle they sold is obtained by a new owner, and that new owner registers a claim, VW would not know whether the new owner should receive 100% restitution, or 50% restitution. (Until after the 9/1/2018 deadline) unless the original owner registers their claim before the new owner's claim is processed.

In some cases, VW has already paid new owners 100% restitution on their claim, only to have an elligible seller come in at a later time with a legitimate claim requesting their 50% of the restitution, which VW had already paid out to the new owner.

I know the cases where a seller who totaled their car, and then registered a claim after the current owner, are probably few and far between, but since it has happened, VW is trying to negotiate a remedy so they are not paying 150% restitution on certain vehicles.

That all being said, I highly doubt VW will be finalizing any claims on branded titles until the negotiations are completed.
- Mr. Phong could not offer me a time frame of when these negotiations will be completed, but he did assure me that he believes it should be finalized before the end of the year.

Just to be clear, the negotiations are about how the CRC will handle these situations, not about changing the actual wording of the settlement agreement.

fookin · Aug 16, 2017

In my opinion, buyers and sellers acted with regard to the text of the settlement. How does CRC do anything different then what the settlement requires of them?

duratitus · Aug 16, 2017

So you're saying that eligible sellers (Who totaled their vehicle) should get nothing if VW has already paid a new owner full restitution?

Just to be clear, they are not changing the settlement wording, they are trying to influence how the CRC addresses branded title claims, especially since eligible sellers could get screwed out of their 50% of the restitution.

Basically, if I'm understanding Mr. Phong correctly, the settlement agreement has a contradiction (or at least is not super clear) about who gets what % of the restitution amount, so the CRC is working out a clarification.

fookin · Aug 16, 2017

I don't read any contradiction in the settlement but the text is not explicit in regard to the situation of totaled car salvaged with new owner. Unclear does not equal contradictory. At the same time I'm just being rhetorical without any legal training, to say the least.

1842 TDI · Aug 16, 2017

fookin said:
I don't read any contradiction in the settlement but the text is not explicit in regard to the situation of totaled car salvaged with new owner. Unclear does not equal contradictory. At the same time I'm just being rhetorical without any legal training, to say the least.

The contradiction is not in the settlement itself. The contradiction is between the settlements.

In the class Action Settlement there is this clause:
Section 4.22
… Any owner whose Eligible Vehicle was totaled and who consequently transferred title of his, her, or its vehicle to an insurance company on or after the Opt-Out Deadline, but before the end of the Claim Period, will be entitled to Owner Restitution but not a Buyback payment. …

The contradiction is that this same clause is not found in the FTC Agreement. In the FTC agreement the current owner gets the Owner Restitution and the Buyback payment and someone who sells their car to the insurance company gets nothing.

In both settlements the current owner gets the Buyback payment. The negotiation is to remedy the contradiction between the two agreements about who gets the Owner Restitution payment.

fookin · Aug 16, 2017

So I read the below at https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/refunds/volkswagen-settlement...

"The total amount from the FTC charts and the VW claims site is the same, but it is presented differently. Volkswagen divides the total into parts, with labels like “vehicle amount” and “additional restitution.” The FTC did not divide calculations this way. For example, after adding and subtracting the proper amounts for mileage and options, your buyback number from the FTC charts might be $14,000. The Volkswagen website may break that $14,000 into different parts, but the total will be $14,000"

It seems to me the only confusion is within the CAS itself and it's not really contradicting itself, just not clarifying what it's stating - that buyback gets full restitution and a seller claiming restitution gets full restitution. It probably didn't intend that but that's how it presents itself. Am I misunderstanding?

psd1 · Aug 16, 2017

duratitus said:
Yesterday I spoke again with Phong Nguyen, the lead attorney handling the VW case @ Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein, LLP.
Mr. Phong is in direct contact with lawyers from Volkswagen, as well as members of the Claims Review Committee (CRC).

Mr. Phong repeated to me that VW has placed an indefinite hold on all claims with a branded title pending negotiation.
Currently the CRC is working with both sides on a remedy to address how to move forward on vehicles with more than one eligible claimant.
Specifically, owners who's vehicles were totaled after 9/18/2016, and are eligible for seller restitution.

These owners currently have until 9/1/2018 to register their claim as an elligble seller (Unlike owners who's vehicle was totaled before 6/28/2016, and had to have registered as an elligible seller before 9/16/2016)
Therefore, if the vehicle they sold is obtained by a new owner, and that new owner registers a claim, VW would not know whether the new owner should receive 100% restitution, or 50% restitution. (Until after the 9/1/2018 deadline) unless the original owner registers their claim before the new owner's claim is processed.

In some cases, VW has already paid new owners 100% restitution on their claim, only to have an elligible seller come in at a later time with a legitimate claim requesting their 50% of the restitution, which VW had already paid out to the new owner.

I know the cases where a seller who totaled their car, and then registered a claim after the current owner, are probably few and far between, but since it has happened, VW is trying to negotiate a remedy so they are not paying 150% restitution on certain vehicles.

That all being said, I highly doubt VW will be finalizing any claims on branded titles until the negotiations are completed.
- Mr. Phong could not offer me a time frame of when these negotiations will be completed, but he did assure me that he believes it should be finalized before the end of the year.

Just to be clear, the negotiations are about how the CRC will handle these situations, not about changing the actual wording of the settlement agreement.

Thanks for this info.

So why did VW send out an email stating that my vehicle was not eligible...if in fact they are working to iron out the details? To me, this is shady and underhanded, as other owners may just give up and not resubmit. Why wouldn't they just let the claim sit in the "pending review" status as it had been for months?

My Touareg was branded salvage in November, 2016 and purchased from a car dealership in February 2017. Any way I read the settlement I, as the current owner, qualify for at least partial restitution plus vehicle buyback. .

duratitus · Aug 16, 2017

fookin said:
Am I misunderstanding?

I think you are right. Forget that I mentioned a contradiction.

My point was that the restitution amount for totaled cars that are fixed and bought back is not entirely clear, so the CRC is getting counsel from both sides, and trying to come up with a consistent answer so VW knows how to move forward.

In the meantime, don't expect your branded title claim to be approved, even if they keep asking for more documentation.

I'd be as happy as anyone to be proven wrong, but I'm believing that what Mr, Phong said about these claims being on hold for now is probably true.

psd1 said:
Thanks for this info.
So why did VW send out an email stating that my vehicle was not eligible...if in fact they are working to iron out the details? To me, this is shady and underhanded, as other owners may just give up and not resubmit. Why wouldn't they just let the claim sit in the "pending review" status as it had been for months?
My Touareg was branded salvage in November, 2016 and purchased from a car dealership in February 2017. Any way I read the settlement I, as the current owner, qualify for at least partial restitution plus vehicle buyback. .

The fact that VW denied your claim does not mean that you or your vehicle are ineligible, rather it means that they are turning your claim over to the Claims Review Committee to review, if you opt to appeal to them.

Since these claims are on hold, my opinion is that VW would be wise to deny all branded title claims in the hopes that that would discourage "Flippers" from trying to turn in more claims.

VW denying claims simply makes you go through the hassle of an appeal, meaning you car may very well be elligible, you just have to be more persistent to go through the hassle of an appeal.

psd1 · Aug 17, 2017

duratitus said:
The fact that VW denied your claim does not mean that you or your vehicle are ineligible, rather it means that they are turning your claim over to the Claims Review Committee to review, if you opt to appeal to them.

Since these claims are on hold, my opinion is that VW would be wise to deny all branded title claims in the hopes that that would discourage "Flippers" from trying to turn in more claims.

VW denying claims simply makes you go through the hassle of an appeal, meaning you car may very well be elligible, you just have to be more persistent to go through the hassle of an appeal.

From VW.

Claim Ineligible. Based on the documents you have provided as part of your claim with reference number 170123123, you are not eligible to participate in the 3.0-Liter Settlement Claims Program. The reason(s) for your ineligibility is described below.g

Vehicle is not eligible - your vehicle is not eligible to participate in the settlement program.

Clearly they state it is ineligible...

duratitus · Aug 17, 2017

Sure they say that. Anybody can say anything.
It is not up to VW to make the final decision regarding eligibility.
The court appointed Claims Review Committee has the final say on which claims are eligible.
You have to send an appeal to the CRC if you question VW's determination regarding your eligibility though, or you're welcome to accept VW's word for it.

psd1 · Aug 17, 2017

duratitus said:
Sure they say that. Anybody can say anything.
It is not up to VW to make the final decision regarding eligibility.
The court appointed Claims Review Committee has the final say on which claims are eligible.
You have to send an appeal to the CRC if you question VW's determination regarding your eligibility though, or you're welcome to accept VW's word for it.

So what does VW have to gain by telling people that their car is ineligible and adding a step?

MONEY!

TDIforDays · Aug 17, 2017

So I got request for proof of not salvage on a clean title car... lol

surfstar · Aug 17, 2017

TDIforDays said:
So I got request for proof of not salvage on a clean title car... lol

Ditto.

Have to mail it also, not upload. Annoying delay from those bastards.

duratitus · Aug 17, 2017

psd1 said:
So what does VW have to gain by telling people that their car is ineligible and adding a step?

IMO, It helps discourage owners with branded titles from trying to get the buyback, even though their car may be eligible. Not everyone will have the patience to wait for the CRC to review their appeal.

TDIforDays said:
So I got request for proof of not salvage on a clean title car... lol

^^^ Like I said earlier, I believe they are just stalling.

surfstar said:
Ditto.
Have to mail it also, not upload. Annoying delay from those bastards.

I believe they do allow you to fax it in, if you log into your portal.

surfstar · Aug 17, 2017

^attempted faxing twice this am, didn't go through (said 'busy') so I mailed a hardcopy today. I'll be able to put another 1042 miles on the TDI and keep them off my Sportwagen for Sep now.
I'd originally planned on a July buyback, but they never sent an offer letter. After multiple contacts, they came back with "proof of not salvage" required. Reason: I purchased after 9/16 - nothing to do with having a branded title (car was 1 owner, clean title, prior to me buying in 5/17)

halbert · Aug 19, 2017

Still waiting to hear from the CRC--either yay or nay. I'm wondering how long it will take them to respond? (After the "we received your material and will get back to you" letter). At the moment, I'd take the original owner restitution and sell the car to the junkyard, just to get it over. This is a case where repairing the damage to get a 'rebuilt vehicle' title simply isn't economical--mostly due to how stringent the rules are in PA.

miltak · Aug 19, 2017

halbert said:
Still waiting to hear from the CRC--either yay or nay. I'm wondering how long it will take them to respond? (After the "we received your material and will get back to you" letter). At the moment, I'd take the original owner restitution and sell the car to the junkyard, just to get it over. This is a case where repairing the damage to get a 'rebuilt vehicle' title simply isn't economical--mostly due to how stringent the rules are in PA.

My first contact with CRC was in late march and except the email,that they got it and will review it no response to any of them.
If there are only 2/3 people dealing with it and there are possibly thousands of them,it may take well over year,so I guess VW hopes you will get rid of it until then-they are stalling on purpose.
Also FTC didn't follow up either except the initial call and Ankura called and they basically will tell you ,they they don't get involved-they just monitor it for court,but when I asked VW supervisor yesterday,why my clean title is there over 2 months with no response-he said they are waiting for Ankura-so somebody is not telling the truth.

Mxrado · Aug 24, 2017

Arghh more than furious.

I submitted the claim right when it was available on my 2010 Audi Q7 rebuilt salvage car. They stalled for weeks and every time I called for status they told me it was under review because it was salvage. Finally they asked for additional document. I sent my registration with the purchase date of 07/02/15 and finally received an offer package. Then I scheduled appointment for some 3 weeks later. Well that date was today. I come and the guy tells me they have to cancel the buyback because it is Salvage. We called customer service and they said supervisor said it was under further review. If they already knew before it was a salvage, why would they issue an offer then back out on it! I am furious as I made financial decisions based on the buyback amount.

Is there anyway the lawyer firm can dig into this? Does anyone have a good contact info???

Thanks!!

duratitus · Aug 24, 2017

I'm sorry to hear about your situation, I had the same thing happen, and it's descusting that they wait until the appointment to tell you that it's back under review.

I'm sorry to say your going to have to wait for the attorneys and the Claim Review Committee to decide how they'll address branded titles.

We are all in the same boat here.

miltak · Aug 26, 2017

After speaking for about 30 min with people from Ankura,I understand the process little more.VW gets your claim and paperwork,if they think it's complete ,they send it to Ankura,once they verify,they send it back to VW and VW should generate offer and send it one more time for verification to Ankura and then VW will send it to you,once offer has been notarized,it's just on VW to put it in and let you choose the appointment. BTW I have one that has been notarized and sent in over a week with no progress.They are slower and slower.
As far as rebuilt or salvage title,it's going to depend on what "our" lawyers will negotiate with VW lawyers and it will create internal memo on how to handle them.As far as I know it's still not agreed.I tried to call Friday Cabraser office and left voicemail and email with no response,so I will try next week too.
From previous conversations I had the feeling-they care more about the previous owner then about us current owners of those cars with cheating software in it.I tried FTC,but they will not get involved in specific case unless there is 100's of us calling them.
I didn't try EPA and I will try next week since VW is violating clean air act on purpose now.
I urge all to call the Cabraser law office and "Cry" like the previous owners who were naive enough to settle with their insurance company for way less and then cry.
Keep in mind CRC have only "our" lawyers defending us there,so if they don't care CRC is useless to us,because VW will for sure try to deny our claims.I have been told by Ankura,that CRC has several groups (not just 2-3 people) and they are trying to pick up speed on getting things done.

single94 · Aug 26, 2017

update

thanks for the update, if you can post up the direct number for all of us to call here we can daily, see if we get movement on these.

miltak · Aug 26, 2017

single94 said:
thanks for the update, if you can post up the direct number for all of us to call here we can daily, see if we get movement on these.

Nguyen, Phong-Chau G. is leading attorney.
ph.#415 956-1000

VW Rejecting Non-Clean Titles?

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Active member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Member

Veteran Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member