Audi confirms diesel is dead in the US

Too bad for VWOA.

Too bad. With pressure on manufacturers to meet stricter and stricter fuel economy targets the Diesel engine certainly helps. In the last few years since Dieselgate I have noticed other Manufaturers stepping into the void created by VW's decision to stop selling diesel in North America due to the scandal. One can now buy a Jeep, Jag, Chev and now soon Mazda (in CX5) in a Diesel engine. I'm sold on diesel now that I have my first. For starters there is 20% more energy in diesel and with its higher compression ratios it makes it a more efficient engine. Too bad, VW's loss has been other manufacturer's gains. I am seeing the beginnings of wider acceptance of diesels here in North America. VW was perhaps a decade too soon and blazed the way in North America.

Ive been driving them since the turn of the century.

Scongiundi said:

Originally Posted by turbocharged798 View Post
You can buy a 12MPG Ford Raptor but you cannot buy a 50MPG diesel car. Tell me how that makes sense?

It doesn't. And it makes me sad.

Click to expand...

Someone could probably build a nuclear powered car that runs a lifetime, but would scatter radioactive material far and wide in the event of a major collision.

Nobody is denying diesel gets great economy. It's just that we're figuring out the impacts of what comes out the tailpipe is detrimental to our health in magnitudes greater than what was previously understood.

Great fuel economy is unfortunately only one piece to the puzzle.

Mythdoc said:

The money quote OP posted is an Audi guy essentially blaming the consumer for not being "culturally" whatever enough to appreciate VW's amazing gift of the TDI that they selflessly bestowed. Which is BS in so many ways.

Click to expand...

The strange thing about this is that, just before Dieselgate, TDIs accounted for about a third of VW's US sales. Clearly there's a significant market here, and I don't think the marketing of "clean" is the primary driver for that. His bit about how Americans just aren't culturally ready for diesel just doesn't seem consistent with the facts. Ah well, fortunately they aren't the only ones on the market.

Dangerous_Dan said:

Nobody who thinks about it for very long would want to get rid of automobile pollution controls. Not to say there aren't issues with the rules, but a wholesale abandonment would result in the kind of air quality you find in many less developed countries.

And while VWAG may be pulling out of the diesel market, a nice Jaguar XE can be had for about the same price as a Passat. And my first four months with the Jag tell me it is a much better car than my VW was.

Click to expand...

I'd love to hear your thoughts on the Jag, good and bad. I've thinking about the possibility of a Jag in a few years, if the diesel is still offered. Very handsome car. I am also open to the possibility of some degree of electrification in the future. Clearly that's where we're headed. 50 miles of electric range in the form of a plug-in hybrid would be enough to get me to/from work.

turbocharged798 said:

I would have no problem with a more realistic automotive pollution control. Problem is that the EPA is full of people who hate diesels and write laws just to push them off the road.

You can buy a 12MPG Ford Raptor but you cannot buy a 50MPG diesel car. Tell me how that makes sense?

Click to expand...

Very well said!

I think it's crazy when I pick up my teenage son at high school and several of the high school kids with massive decked out diesel pickup trucks with the big vertical tail pipes are doing "coal burns" in the school parking lots and I'm the bad guy with my Jetta TDI.

dieselpwr said:

at one point before dieselgate, VW was selling more diesels than gas but Americans dont like diesels?

Click to expand...

My first encounter with a Golf was a low miles, clean, used 2003 GSL 5M.

But then I wanted to get an automatic. First look was the Launch (cheap as dirt) but the local dealer was asking MSRP plus. And the Launch may have been only in a manual?

At that point I wanted a gasser. When it came time to pull the trigger, I found a dealer, who was selling TDIs for about the same as gassers. That was a no brainer.

Pure happenstance (I am a quintessential price buyer) got me into a diesel.

6-7 weeks latter, here comes dieselgate

Tankbuster said:

Very well said!

I think it's crazy when I pick up my teenage son at high school and several of the high school kids with massive decked out diesel pickup trucks with the big vertical tail pipes are doing "coal burns" in the school parking lots and I'm the bad guy with my Jetta TDI.

Click to expand...

You all do understand, right, that VW was not busted because they pollute more than a diesel pickup truck? They were busted because they intentionally CHEATED the regulation about how much they did pollute, they LIED about it for as long as they could afterwards, and they COVERED UP and STONEWALLED the ensuing investigation into these first two things.

These are not hidden aspects to the case. As an aside, I have noticed that folks who insist on using the illogical and incomplete reasoning of 11 year olds are the first to complain about being "talked down to" by others who insist they not do that. Well, one tends to follow the other.

Yes, VW broke the law, and for that they deserve to pay the consequences. But regulations that allow the proliferation of 15 mpg land yachts are misaligned. That 15 mpg guzzler has far more negative impact on the environment than any tdi.

I hope you realize this article isn't a confirmation of anything. "I would say no" is one executive's opinion when confronted with the question at an unrelated event. As guidance for the future of Audi diesels this is worth absolutely nothing.

turbobrick240 said:

Yes, VW broke the law, and for that they deserve to pay the consequences. But regulations that allow the proliferation of 15 mpg land yachts are misaligned. That 15 mpg guzzler has far more negative impact on the environment than any tdi.

Click to expand...

I always felt that faulty ignitions (chevy) and incontrollable accelerations (toyota) and exploding airbags (tata?) and tires that fall apart (firestone) were all deserving of far far greater penalties than what vw is getting.

I mean those others killed people vs a programming issue.

tdi_sport said:

I always felt that faulty ignitions (chevy) and incontrollable accelerations (toyota) and exploding airbags (tata?) and tires that fall apart (firestone) were all deserving of far far greater penalties than what vw is getting.

I mean those others killed people vs a programming issue.

Click to expand...

Morally you are 100 % correct ~~ IMO

But,

As a member of the CAS, ( a very early member) I (and many others) are getting the car financial wind fall of a life time.

2015vwgolfdiesel said:

Yep
China is not opening one coal plant per week
China is opening two coal plants per week.
http://energydesk.greenpeace.org/20...-coal-plants-despite-new-overcapacity-policy/
But at least it is not three per week
_______________________________
Rather like in Congress ~~ when an increase in spending of (say) 3 % is a cut in spending, compared to an increase in spending of (say) 4 %

Click to expand...

I don't claim to be an expert in China energy policy, but I will note that your article was from last year, and mine is from this year. It's possible that China has recently changed it's plans.

O

tdi_sport said:

I always felt that faulty ignitions (chevy) and incontrollable accelerations (toyota) and exploding airbags (tata?) and tires that fall apart (firestone) were all deserving of far far greater penalties than what vw is getting.

I mean those others killed people vs a programming issue.

Click to expand...

I see your point and don't necessarily disagree- except that intent is very important. Now if GM knowingly allowed their cars to be sold with a known, potentially lethal defect (which I believe they did) then they deserve far more than a slap on the wrist. The NHTSA could find no defect in the Toyotas with unintended acceleration. The government still crucified toyota to the tune of $1.2 billion.

tdi_sport said:

I always felt that faulty ignitions (chevy) and incontrollable accelerations (toyota) and exploding airbags (tata?) and tires that fall apart (firestone) were all deserving of far far greater penalties than what vw is getting.

I mean those others killed people vs a programming issue.

Click to expand...

In none of those cases did a company commit a crime against a sovereign nation by intentionally deceiving its regulatory agency, lying about it, and covering up. I am not the only one pointing this out, over and over again, whenever someone mistakenly compares this case to other cases where companies have done wrong to consumers in various ways. All those are oranges; this case is a very bad apple. To prove the point, look at the rest of the world. Why is VW not having to pay the enormous penalties there that it is paying here? Because those nations did not have strong regulatory controls in place.

So yes, duh, it is much "worse" for you if your tires were made badly and they fail and you hit a light pole. Class action suits and other avenues are open to you. It is much less worse for you if your car pollutes. But that is not the point. If you have read this far and are asking "what IS the point, then?" reread the first paragraph.

Translation: This is all about political poo flinging, and not anything actually damaging or dangerous to anyone . . . Which is the point a lot have been trying to make. Other than to a politician (who otherwise has no purpose), nowhere is crossing arbitrary boundaries more of an issue than killing people. Oh, and let's look at things like the Pinto and others . . . the industry is rife with denial and lying about fault . . . that's nothing new.

Every thread on every topic does not need to be hijacked to this same drivel. I played along, but I am finished playing now.

tadawson said:

Translation: This is all about political poo flinging, and not anything actually damaging or dangerous to anyone . . . Which is the point a lot have been trying to make.Other than to a politician( (who otherwise has no purpose), nowhere is crossing arbitrary boundaries more of an issue than killimg people. Oh, and let's look at things lime the Pinto and other things . . . the industry is rife with denial and lying about fault . . . that's nothing new.

Click to expand...

Well said - GM should be paying DEARLY for KILLING people (deliberately) with their ignition problems. At least VW didn't kill people...

FloridaJohn said:

I don't claim to be an expert in China energy policy,

... snip....

It's possible that China has recently changed it's plans.

Click to expand...

Only thing I can say for sure is:

china is a nasty air place to live (in general) and US is a much cleaner place to live.

America has made changes for the better, in the last decades, where as china (and others) are really messing with our planet

I'll give them some well deserved "credit" when their air is half as clean as ours.

I give china one credit regarding their smog spewing (before the air junk leaves their borders). More than a billion local citizen's lungs are filtering some of the particles

turbobrick240 said:

I think he was just giving his honest opinion, not really trying to deflect blame. In general Americans want big, powerful cars- at a low price point. Unfortunately, fuel efficiency is more of an afterthought for far too many.

Click to expand...

If that's the case, he certainly could have phrased his answer better.

True. Maybe he was too forthcoming with his opinion. I can think of certain world leaders that put him to shame with frank, poorly thought out comments and tweets.

Also, in expressing his honest opinion, I think he provides a window into his (and VW/Audi execs at large) warped view of how things went down.

VW share of the US auto mkt is miniscule ,especially the diesel,so all the hand wringing about the deaths from the dieselgate is a pile. Totally a POLITICAL game being played. If we were honest we would look at the semi diesel mkt and the volume of dirt that gets spewed each day a address the real issue. That won't happen because there is no option to solve the issue and it would put us in a depression almost over night.

Shame because our TDI's are unbelievable automobiles,nothing like it is made in gas engines that get anywhere near the mileage. I will keep my Treg.

VeeDubTDI said:

Also, in expressing his honest opinion, I think he provides a window into his (and VW/Audi execs at large) warped view of how things went down.

Click to expand...

I think you're reading too much into his comment. I don't think he was referring to dieselgate. But yes, it was distasteful. The germans are the last people who should be throwing shade at Americans/ american culture.

Yeah - I didn't mean to refer to Dieselgate specifically... I was commenting more on their corporate culture. Anyway, it was certainly an interesting comment.

showdown 42 said:

VW share of the US auto mkt is miniscule ,especially the diesel,so all the hand wringing about the deaths from the dieselgate is a pile. Totally a POLITICAL game being played. If we were honest we would look at the semi diesel mkt and the volume of dirt that gets spewed each day a address the real issue. That won't happen because there is no option to solve the issue and it would put us in a depression almost over night.

Shame because our TDI's are unbelievable automobiles,nothing like it is made in gas engines that get anywhere near the mileage. I will keep my Treg.

Click to expand...

Not defending it, because I basically agree, but, at least the big rigs are moving goods around the country. That includes diesel electric trains, ships and aircraft. That, in my mind, mitigates the pollution being spewed a bit. VW and other cheating companies are just trying to add to their profits and their egos...Mark

Mythdoc said:

Every thread on every topic does not need to be hijacked to this same drivel. I played along, but I am finished playing now.

Click to expand...

Sounds like someone is reading too many Harry Potter books, Albus Dumbledore lines.

Tankbuster said:

Sounds like someone is reading too many Harry Potter books, Albus Dumbledore lines.

Click to expand...

As someone who hasn't been wading in to this thread so far, it looks like that from here. Threads that mention the EPA in any way tend to get steered the same direction by the same half-dozen posters posting the same things, regardless of what the original direction of the thread was. It's disappointing, but it's also pretty normal for forums.

BTW: there are nuclear powered cars. And when they crash they don't spray radioactive waste everywhere. Sure they store that energy temporarily in a lithium battery, but they are still nuclear powered.

Ever seen a lithium battery fire? Very hot, violent, and ugly, and very difficult to put out . . . .

flargabarg said:

As someone who hasn't been wading in to this thread so far, it looks like that from here. Threads that mention the EPA in any way tend to get steered the same direction by the same half-dozen posters posting the same things, regardless of what the original direction of the thread was. It's disappointing, but it's also pretty normal for forums.
BTW: there are nuclear powered cars. And when they crash they don't spray radioactive waste everywhere. Sure they store that energy temporarily in a lithium battery, but they are still nuclear powered.

Click to expand...

They are, in fact, the only ones that aren't solar powered.