2004 Allroad BHW Conversion

Time for a new project (not that I needed another one)!
I've always loved the Allroads and thought they would be the ultimate daily driver, only problem was I've dealt with enough 2.7T's to know that I would never own one and I dropped the idea. Then I met Wing_Man who was about to start his Allroad BHW swap and the idea popped back into my head. A year later and many miles covered on an R1200GS, I was going to need a winter daily driver and the search began.
Got a great deal on a 2005 Passat with a pooched transmission:

Then a month later, managed to snag a 2004 manual Allroad in decent condition for a very good price as well:

I pulled the BHW out and started to give it a little TLC. New timing belt, balance shaft delete and general cleaning up (horrendously filthy after 320k kms):


Then I got a TDI 01E from Frans at Dutch Auto Parts. I was very happy with the transaction and couldn't believe how fast it showed up (4 days!).
The next issue was finding a clutch that would hold a stage 2 tune now and probably more in the future. After much searching, I decided to go for the single mass 240mm frankenclutch recipe. Took some time to source the correct parts, but so far I think I only have $350 into it. So assuming it holds, it's by far the most cost effective option.


I'll be removing the 2.7T and existing 01E this weekend and maybe even get the BHW put back in if I can get my flywheel/pressure plate balanced in time.
I will be creating a wiring chart as I go, hopefully this will make it easier for future Allroad swappers. A lot of it is the same/very similar between the two harnesses, but there are definitely a few pins that will need to be figured out.
The general plan is to run the hottest tune I can on stock injectors and turbo for the time being. The main goal is a quick swap, good fuel economy and similar drivability to the the 2.7T.
More to come very shortly!

Subscribed! This is my not so secret dream project. Looks like you're off to a great start.

Andrew

Made some progress on the weekend. Got my flywheel and pressure plate back from balancing, glad I had it done based on the amount they removed. Got the engine removed from the Allroad, I dropped the whole subframe with the engine, trans and front suspension. I have no idea how people pull the 2.7T's out any other way.


My subframes are a little bit crusty, so I'm going to have them sandblasted and repaint them. I figure there is no better time than now!
ECU is going out this week to Malone to get a Stage 2 tune, Immo delete and Auto-Manual. After that, I should have everything needed to get this thing back together.

Got any pics of the flywheel post-balancing? I wasn't going to bother with mine since its just some evenly-spaced holes, but maybe I should?

I will grab some tonight, I would estimate they removed 8-10 grams total in 4 different places.

Here's some more pics of the clutch Mikkijayne:


There were two other balancing drill spots other than the two you can see, they were right where the pins for the pressure plate were.
For those interested in using this clutch setup, I found the "recipe" here on TDIclub and Audi-Sport, I'm not sure who the original creator was or I would credit them.
The components:
-Audi 80 FWD/Industrial TDI Flywheel ($47 from Hansautoparts... yaya I know, only NA source I could find)
-Audi S2 Pressure Plate ($200 shipped German Ebay)
-Audi S4/RS4 Clutch Disc ($100 Ebay Gripforce)
Then re-drilled for the different pressure plate and had it balanced ($65). I haven't weighed it yet, but I would estimate ~25lbs.

Loving this build, allroads are very sweet cars. Can't wait to see more progress

Thanks for the pics Not a lot to take off then. I might spin mine up on a wheel balancer and see what it says.

Is that a genuine flywheel? If so its cheaper than just buying the ring-gear from Audi, which I wanted for something else.

Mikki,

I was going to check mine on a wheel balancer too, but the spindle was too big on my balancer to fit through the centre bore so I just sent it out.

Definitely not genuine coming from Hansautoparts. The machining appeared to be pretty good and I was going to have to rebalance it anyway. Sourcing one and paying for shipping from across the pond was getting expensive, so I figured I would try this route first.

http://www.hansautoparts.com/026105269LFlywheel.aspx

I made a spreadsheet with all the pin #'s for the BHW and 2.7t V6 and where each should go in order to have a "plug and play" harness. My car is a 2000 A6.

I also have a 2005 AR awaiting the same conversion. Unfortunately sometime in 2003-2004 Audi changed the body harness plugs (white, brown, red/orange, black).

I have updated my spreadsheet for the new pin orientation as well. You will need different plugs on the BHW harness if you want it to be plug and play. I have a set of bare plugs if interested.

Vwzips, I would be very grateful if you were willing to share your spreadsheet. I have started making one myself, but I have run into a few pins on the BHW harness I'm not sure what to do with.

I did notice the connectors aren't all identical, I think 2/5 were the same. I have a stockpile of connectors to go through, hoping I'll get lucky. Thanks for the offer!

Pulling the rear subframe tonight. I'm going to send the subframe out for sandblasting as they're a little crusty. The joys of working on Canadian cars!

More to come,

-Luke

PM sent

It's been slow going the last week getting everything cleaned up for reassembly.
I had the subframes and rear control arms sandblasted as they were looking a little crusty.

When life gives you ridiculously expensive aerospace epoxy primer for free, you paint your Audi parts with it.

And finally used MasterCote Chassis paint to hopefully resist the salty Canadian winters.

The camber and the toe adjusters were seized on the rear suspension. I was determined to not replace the toe links at $120 a piece, and did eventually manage to save them. Took 13 tons on the hydraulic press though!
I also found a oillite bushing on McMaster for $2 that will hopefully have better engagement than the typical pilot bearing. Specs are 21mm OD x 15mm ID x 20mm long. I'll have to report back once I mate the engine and transmission.

Hoping to have the engine in later this week, more to come.

Subframes are looking good Those rear toe links suck! They're both seized on mine too.

May I beg a favour? Could you measure how thick your clutch disk is please? I'm trying to put the same combo together but my clutch disk is 10mm thick and it won't bolt together. The cover plate seems to be made for an 8mm disk.

Mikki,

Seems to be 9mm thick. The disk I have was for B5 RS4 I believe, not sure if that differs from a standard 2.7T disk. I also can't confirm it works yet, although I can bolt the pressure plate to the flywheel. I had to take a 2mm off of the centre steel hub in the lathe, I'll post a pic later. I haven't come across others having to do this though...

It's a LUK 324023710 which crosses to Audi 078141031S.

Thanks I have the V6/V8 TDI disk and that clears everything fine but leaves the pressure plate fully compressed when it's bolted up.

If you get a chance could you grab the measurement between the pressure plate mounting surface and friction surface please, ie what the gap is between the two surfaces in this pic:



Thanks!

Mikki,

Is this the measurement you're looking for? If so, I was getting 5mm.

Yeah thanks. Thats what I have too, but mine won't go together. I think the clutch disk is just too thick for this combo so I'm going to space out the cover plate and see what that does

I dropped my ECU off at Ottostadt so that Malone can do a reflash and immobilizer delete this week.

Some more progress from last night:

The bushing seems to fit very well, I used a dab of blue loctite and tapped it in. By my measurement I should have around 15mm of engagement with the
input shaft.



Here is another shot of the modified clutch setup with the 240mm disk:





The original Passat TDI starter is a very tight fit against the turbo support,
but it does fit.



Engine and transmission mated up:



As others have mentioned (thanks for the tip), change the powersteering and heater core lines over before putting the engine in. It would not be very fun after the fact:





Should have the engine installed this weekend, hoping it will go fairly quickly now.

I like that bushing idea.

Managed to get the engine in this weekend. Actually really fast and easy if it's put in from the bottom on the subframe.

Then had to "adjust" the front cross member. At first, I just grabbed the plasma cutter and went to it, but by the time it actually fit it was pretty flimsy and ugly. So I ended up chopping the frame mounts off the 2.7T crossmember and grafting them onto the BHW crossmember. Then just welded on some 1" square tube for the lower rad mounts, extended the front snub mount and trimmed the bottom edge of the rad support. I'll get a better picture tonight.


Pretty much everything else has been plug and play so far, all the rad hoses and boost piping fits as it should. I think I'll need to make a hybrid intercooler mount using both the Passat and Allroad mounts. The Passat one doesn't fit on the Allroad frame and the Allroad one doesn't fit the larger BHW intercooler.
So much more room in the bay than the previous monstrosity.

Also the BHW catalytic converter and downpipe also bolt right up, is this likely to be restrictive for a Malone Stage 2 tune? I'll be fabbing my own stainless system duals from the downpipe back. Thoughts on this?
More to come soon!

I used the BHW IC bracket. Just had to cut some away where it hit the frame rail.

For the exhaust I used the BHW cat and down pipe. I had a 2.8 V6 exhaust laying around which goes from 2 cats to one single pipe then to the suitcase muffler.

I cut the Y out, turned it around which made the single pipe from the BHW mate up to the dual exhaust of the A6/AllRoad set up. Only thing I don't like is the sound. Have not put my finger on it yet but it sounds a little odd.

That's along the line of what I was thinking vwztips, thanks!

So I started investigating the lift pump situation last night. I don't really like the idea of using the Allroad pump and regulating it down. After pulling both the BHW lift pump apart and the Allroad pump out of the tank, I think I might be able to make something work.

The Allroad tank seems pretty complicated as there are 3 level senders and there is a distribution manifold on the fuel return line inside the tank and the pressure regulator is part of the fuel rail on the engine. So I don't really want to mess with any of that stuff.

What I believe is that the BHW lift pump has the regulator built into the pump. If this is the case, everything should work.



From my research, the top line goes to the eductor jet (?).

The middle line is the pressure supply line out of the pump.

Bottom line is the return back into the fuel basket.

Looking at the small white plastic cylinder beside the middle line, I'm thinking this is related to the pressure regulation.

I was looking at this post (Thanks Dang144): http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=225672

However the BHW and BEW lift pumps appear to be different. I'm going to have to rig up a pressure gauge and test my theory tonight.

Yes the fuel pumps in the Quattro cars are very complicated. I decided not to mess with it.

Instead, I followed the lead of another member who also did an AR conversion and put a T in the fuel lines so anything not needed by the engine is dumped back to the tank. I checked before and after pressures and the T safely dropped it down to what the BHW is used to seeing.

The fuel pumps in Quattros are a ****ing nightmare!

My V6 TDI A6 had an in-tank pump simply to run the suction jet pumps inside the tank to balance the fuel level and the VP44 pump sucked the fuel out itself.

Trying to add a lift pump for the AFN has been a proper PITA - I swapped in a pump assembly from a 2.7T with a PD pump and while it seems to work fine round town, but on long motorway journeys it will randomly run out of fuel at 1/4 tank because the IP isn't returning enough fuel to keep the suction jet running. Whether the suction jet bits are different in TDI Quattros (the Passat Syncro came with an AFN) I don't know, but I got bored with it eventually and gave up. If I were to try it again I'd have to find an in-line pump instead of an in-tank one, and leave the stock suction jet stuff alone.

Why they couldn't just fit a balance pipe between the two sides I don't know

Hmm thanks for the tips guys. Sounds like I should probably just put in a T or regulator and call it a day.....

Not sure if your tank/pump setup is the same as in my formerly W8 B5.5 Passat but what I did was remove the W8 pump from its casing and put a BEW pump back in the W8 casing. Everything appears to work fine (for 50000+kms).

Hmmm thanks for the tip Otty. From the pictures I have been able to find, the W8 Passat and Allroad fuel pumps appear to be the same.

What I am unsure of is what the function is of the part circled in red:



The Allroad pump only has one outlet:



I don't know if that extra line is part of the pressure relief and can just be looped back into the tank? Or if that will cause issues with fuel distribution inside the tank?

I'll have to setup a test this weekend and investigate fuel pressures, as the TDI pump would physically drop into Allroad housing.

All I can offer is that the return line needs as much flow as possible to make the suction jet work. I've never seen that small line on any pump before though.

My understanding is that the return line from the gasser cars feeds the eductor. When I connected supply and return under the hood with a tee, I measured 25 ish PSI of pressure.

Thats a nice feed for a pressure regulator, but I still need an unrestricted line for return to the tank.

I'm putting a 1Z in a 99 quattro avant.