Injector pump not leaking... pouring!

mtbr297

Vendor
Joined
Nov 3, 2002
Location
Ft. Worth, TX., USA
TDI
2015 Golf TDI, Seat Leon FR PD 150 6 speed.
Does anyone still have pictures of Jim's (carrodi tdi) front/drive seal replacment? I am interested in the drilling location into the hub. I was also told that the drive seal can leak due to worn shaft. I was told there were some shafts that were made with too soft material. Also isn't there some way to calibrate tdc with the dial indicator in the pump like the old mechanical pumps when you pull the hub?
 
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naviwala

New member
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Location
Birmingham Alabama
TDI
2000 Beetle TDI
Jim Royston

I am about replace top and middle gaskit on FIP on my 2000 TDI beetle, Its a good discription by you but i can't see the pictures they are showing as red X marks could you help me?
I have already changed the O ring with the wonderful discription on this site by you, with no problems. I am little shaky about middle seal and the marking buisness to make sure I take necessary precautios.:)
 
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VWTDIrookie

Active member
Joined
Mar 27, 2006
Location
Groves, Texas
TDI
2003 Jetta Silver, '06 F250 P.S.
Maybe some of the pros here could give their opinion. I'm buying a 2000 Jetta TDI for cheap, but the IP clicks and clatters very loudly. It's my friends car and I know that the QA is out of wack and we've had to set the timing several times:eek: . The car has 200K miles, and I know the IP is on its way out. Would just like some ideas as to what's making all that noise, and what component of the pump is probably going out.:confused:
 

Dieselgeek

TDIClub Enthusiast, Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 3, 2000
Location
Golden, CO
TDI
2016 Golf TDI
The drive mechanism centered around the drive shaft might have pitted contact surfaces which makes for big clearances and noise. I'd pull the QA and look for metal flakes in the diesel fuel. Replace the pump if you find a lot of flakes. Getting the pump vertical in a vice makes for relatively easy dissection if you are curious. If you are paying attention you can get it back together if all of the wear surfaces look good. If you think that only the QA is bad and there are no flakes in the diesel fuel you can find a good used QA, slap it on and see what happens.
 

pain blanc

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Location
california
TDI
97 passat, 01 golf
(I also cannot find these old pictures of the top/middle seal replacement. I must be missing some basic feature/rule of posting. Do pictures expire? Does anyone know where to find them?)

RE: EPOXY/JBWeld method of aligning middle seal for proper IQ setting...
I thought the original idea was nuts. It seemed to me that chips/flecks of epoxy into the body of the pump would be inevitable. But, I had no Vag-Com, and needed to do the seals asap, so...I remembered the joy and miracle of EPOXY PUTTY. It worked like a charm. (I can't figure out how to post a photo, but I will try some day). It runs like a top, great gas mileage, no leaks. I just cleaned off the bottom body/case of the pump REALLY well, and stuck the putty on like chewing gum. When I replaced the middle seal, the middle housing seated up against the "hard as nails" putty to the micron...no problem.

Thanks all of you brave souls before me. Those yet to try it...fear not. If I can do it ANYONE can do it.

chus,
pain blanc



mtbr297 said:
Does anyone still have pictures of Jim's (carrodi tdi) front/drive seal replacment? I am interested in the drilling location into the hub. I was also told that the drive seal can leak due to worn shaft. I was told there were some shafts that were made with too soft material. Also isn't there some way to calibrate tdc with the dial indicator in the pump like the old mechanical pumps when you pull the hub?
 

suomistyler

New member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
Nanaimo
TDI
1988 TDI Jetta
hey there,

I got a 1.6L 1988 TDI Jetta with the Bosch VE style pump that has lasted 520,000 km without a rebuild or seal change. Its been leaking slowly through the throttle shaft for about 4 years now but in the last couple weeks it has gotten worse and i am know getting about a 3-4 inch diameter pooling under my engine overnight. Whenever i stop after the engine has fully heated up, i can hear air escaping out/in(?) through the throttle assembly...

I have contemplated doing a complete rebuild of the pump but it would run me around 800 dollars to do at the cheapest. So before i decide to do that i would like to try and replace the leaking throttle shaft seal since it would be a much cheaper alternative in the shorterm. So i have a few questions of all you experienced rebuilders if you do not mind:

Firstly, where can a purchase a seal kit for my pump at a reasonable price...i live in canada if that matters any.

Secondly, Could someone walk me through the process of replacing this seal? How difficult is it to replace? Do i need any special tools to replace this seal? Does it require me to bleed the injectors afterwards?

Thank you for your time and advice in advance!

Suomistyler
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
suomistyler said:
hey there,

I got a 1.6L 1988 TDI Jetta with the Bosch VE style pump that has lasted 520,000 km without a rebuild or seal change. Its been leaking slowly through the throttle shaft for about 4 years now but in the last couple weeks it has gotten worse and i am know getting about a 3-4 inch diameter pooling under my engine overnight. Whenever i stop after the engine has fully heated up, i can hear air escaping out/in(?) through the throttle assembly...

I have contemplated doing a complete rebuild of the pump but it would run me around 800 dollars to do at the cheapest. So before i decide to do that i would like to try and replace the leaking throttle shaft seal since it would be a much cheaper alternative in the shorterm. So i have a few questions of all you experienced rebuilders if you do not mind:

Firstly, where can a purchase a seal kit for my pump at a reasonable price...i live in Canada if that matters any.

Secondly, Could someone walk me through the process of replacing this seal? How difficult is it to replace? Do i need any special tools to replace this seal? Does it require me to bleed the injectors afterwords?

Thank you for your time and advice in advance!

Suomistyler
First there were No TDIs- ( short for Turbo Direct Injection a registered VWAG trademark ) in Jettas/Boras/Golfs anywhere in the world until 1994-95 . None here in North America until 1996 . All earlier ones were IDIs -( InDirect Injection ) .

The TDIs came out of the VWAG super IDI diesel program of the mid 80s . The last of the 1.6 & 1.9 L IDIs of the late 80s to mid 90s the Umwelts -( EcoDiesels ) benefited greatly from the super diesel programs advances . Low mass turbos & much more thorough combustion from vortexed intakes increased power & efficiency significantly in the ECO diesel lines that had both 1.6s & 1.9s .

The Umwelt/Eco-Diesel was in the US 1991.5s & 92s 1.6 TDs . The 1.9 TDs in Canada from 1990-1997 were also Eco-Diesels . The 87-91 Audis in Europe had the first super 1.6 & 1.9 IDIs before the introduction of the first TDIs in late 1991 in the Audi brand .
 
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suomistyler

New member
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
Nanaimo
TDI
1988 TDI Jetta
rotarykid said:
First there were No TDIs- ( short for Turbo Direct Injection a registered VWAG trademark ) in Jettas/Boras/Golfs anywhere in the world until 1994-95 . None here in North America until 1996 . All earlier ones were IDIs -( InDirect Injection ) .

The TDIs came out of the VWAG super IDI diesel program of the mid 80s . The last of the 1.6 & 1.9 L IDIs of the late 80s to mid 90s the Umwelts -( EcoDiesels ) benefited greatly from the super diesel programs advances . Low mass turbos & much more thorough combustion from vortexed intakes increased power & efficiency significantly in the ECO diesel lines that had both 1.6s & 1.9s .

The Umwelt/Eco-Diesel was in the US 1991.5s & 92s 1.6 TDs . The 1.9 TDs in Canada from 1990-1997 were also Eco-Diesels . The 87-91 Audis in Europe had the first super 1.6 & 1.9 IDIs before the introduction of the first TDIs in late 1991 in the Audi brand .
Thanks for all the neat technicals but its not quite the answer i was looking for...can anyone else help the newbie out?
 

XJCoupe

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Location
D.C. Metro
TDI
none
suomistyler said:
Thanks for all the neat technicals but its not quite the answer i was looking for...can anyone else help the newbie out?
While the basic VE pump design may be shared with the first generation TDIs, there are many differences between your '88 and the TDIs (starting in the mid-'90s) that use a VE pump. You'll be better off posting your question to forums that are intended for your vehicle. Good luck.
 

shegel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2007
Location
bonney lake
TDI
99.5 jetta 2015 Passat
found this thread and it was super helpfull with my top and middle seal change. just thought i'd bump it
 

ericy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Rehoboth Beach, DE
TDI
2015 Golf TDI (wife's car)
shegel said:
found this thread and it was super helpfull with my top and middle seal change. just thought i'd bump it
I am in the middle of working on mine, and unfortunately things aren't going well. I can't get the middle part back on - the little ball on the quantity adjuster keeps hitting something or another so it won't go down all the way. I got the surface to mate once, but the middle part was about 1/4" inch from where it belonged according to my marks, so I took it off again to try and see if I got it in the wrong spot, and now it doesn't go in at all.

I do see that the quantity adjuster is spring loaded - for what it is worth, I can move it some by pulling on the dial, but it still isn't going in.

And many of the pictures are gone, so I can't tell where the ball is supposed to mate - is it a hole or a groove that I am aiming for?? :mad::mad::mad:.
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
Eric, did you find the anglo-hexon.net:88 page on top/middle seal replacement?
It had a great picture
Larry
 

ericy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Rehoboth Beach, DE
TDI
2015 Golf TDI (wife's car)
l_c said:
Eric, did you find the anglo-hexon.net:88 page on top/middle seal replacement?
It had a great picture
Larry
Found the link, but the site is down.

It *looks* like there is a hole in the collar into which the thing goes, and when I removed the middle part the collor got turned a bit so it didn't line up any more. I was able to turn it back, and got it together again, and in theory I am ready to crank the engine. But I would really like to get confirmation that I didn't screw something up before I try...

But in the process of this, I ended up sliding down the stairs on my butt and back and damn that hurt...
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
Eric, sorry to hear about the fall.
I rotated mine a bit too, it fit fine. It should go smoothly on.
Surely there's a good pic of it somewhere
They're mostly 4 disassembly, not assembly
Like that french forum site w/hi-res pics of the ve pump guts
U can email beowulf or whoever has that anglo-hexon page
Good luck
Larry
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
yep that collar rotates freely on that shaft so moving it manually (with a tool) is no problem. I rarely have to do it but I have in the past. The QA should put it exactly where it needs to be. also, if you get it put back down on there and it is not lined up with your marks, just move it until it is.

Once you get it running and check the IQ with vag com you may have to move it again anyway.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
This also reminds me to remind you all to inspect the large plunger springs in the area just to the right of the control collar being discussed above when you have it apart for seal replacement. I have found one of these to be completely broken (though still functioning) while replacing a IQ housing seal. This advisory probably only applies to very high mileage cars but you never know.

-rob
 

XJCoupe

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2005
Location
D.C. Metro
TDI
none
shegel said:
found this thread and it was super helpfull with my top and middle seal change. just thought i'd bump it
+1

Replaced top and middle seals about a month ago. Just took the engine cover off over the weekend to see if it was a successful repair. It's bone dry! :D
 

ericy

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2004
Location
Rehoboth Beach, DE
TDI
2015 Golf TDI (wife's car)
For what it is worth, the car seems to run better now that I changed the seals. It used to be hard to start, and then it would sputter for 5-10 seconds while all the air the got into the pump would get pumped out. Now it starts a lot more cleanly.

I used to have a problem with a diesel odor in the garage - my workaround was to increase the biodiesel percentage, and I won't know whether that problem is solved until I go back onto regular D2. That could be a while :D. I guess my point though is that it is possible that I need to also replace the head seal at some point in the not too distant future..
 

l_c

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Location
San Jose, CA USA
TDI
Wrecked and gone: VW Jetta wagon 2002 silver TDI
Yeah, i expect the middle and head seals to both give out
Especially after fuel transitions (not all of which we control)
Larry
 

Tankthecarman

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Location
United States
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH TDI 5spd
Runonbeer, you have been tremendously helpful with your instructions. I would like to add that when my daughter got a Beetle that someone else had “taken a whack at” I found the small thrust washer in the bottom of the pump. I used TransJel TM
brand transmission assembly lube to “glue the parts together while reassembling in chassis.
 

Shockj2000

Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2014
Location
Bulverde / San Antonio
TDI
99 jetta
I had a bad leak on the top of my injection pump and I swapped the rubber gasket but I notice the car takes longer to start now and the engine runs louder. Also it’s a little sluggish to pick up. I guess I didn’t install it exactly correct? What do I do to fix this issue?
 
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Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
I had a bad leak on the top of my injection pump and I swapped the rubber gasket but I notice the car takes longer to start now and the engine runs louder. Also it’s a little sluggish to pick up. I guess I didn’t install it exactly correct? What do I do to fix this issue?
You probably need to check your injection quantity with VCDS.
 

rotarykid

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 27, 2003
Location
Piedmont of N.C. & the plains of Colorado
TDI
1997 Passat TDI White,99.5 Blue Jetta TDI
In an emergency I have dumped auto trans stop leak into my fuel tank with success in less than 200 miles of driving stopping completely a pump leak until I get home to repair the seals properly....

I have had this trick, makeshift repair last for years with no new leaks...

This trick has saved me more than a few times when I was a long way from home with a pump spewing fuel out of a seal in the injection pump ...
 
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