270bhp on stock injectors? (PD130 ASZ)

skillaturbos

Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2016
Location
Corby
TDI
SEAT IBIZA 6L CUPRA TDI
Yes car has high egts
Durations it's my settings and don't need your opinion if it's good or not.
Capable of more than 270bhp on std injectors. YES just need to know how to do it...
Smoke levels acceptable??? What is the point of having a diesel car not making smoke and trying to get lots of power out if it???
My car on streets doesn't make a bit of smoke unless you want.
MAHA dyno result coming soon and then want to see what crap will come out lol
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
You can make a powerful car and have it fairly smoke free.
Lots of smoke is lots of wasted fuel.
We are not arguing figures we are discussing the egt and lambda which shows that its not safe.

Ergo if its not safe you cant (shouldn't ) do it.
 

gabrieeel

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
portugal
TDI
IBIZA MK2 IT pd160
hmmmm now i understand drags.... they play safe to.... its good to understand what are the limits whe u guys just dont push there... u look like u know all the theoric but still fail to show them in pratice.... normally playing safe doesnt get 1st place.... at any competicion....

good luck for all....
 

gabrieeel

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
portugal
TDI
IBIZA MK2 IT pd160
dont see the skilla car or mine smoking in high revs...

just build a car tell me how much u spend and times... then if you show good results we can have this conversation again
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Did you not see the video on the rolling road?
First video it smoked heavily and didn't really clear up
second video it had a misfire!!!
I don't care about ultimate performance if we removed protective limiters and ran to 1200 degree EGT we could have more power... but because we aren't idiots we do not.

you dont need your firad 160% nozzles just run 55 degrees duration on pd130 nozzles.
 
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gabrieeel

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
portugal
TDI
IBIZA MK2 IT pd160
Did you not see the video on the rolling road?
First video it smoked heavily and didn't really clear up
second video it had a misfire!!!
I don't care about ultimate performance if we removed protective limiters and ran to 1200 degree EGT we could have more power... but because we aren't idiots we do not.

you dont need your firad 160% nozzles just run 55 degrees duration on pd130 nozzles.
"protetive limiters.... what are u talking about??


i run what i choose and can afford. the main question was. is it possible to do 270hp in stock injectors?? YES IT IS
they didnt ask if it was safe to do it....

and try at least to respect people... because nobody is ofending you
 

Sheppy

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Location
Worcestershire
TDI
Polo GT TDi, 2260, Stock injectors, 225bhp
.
I think you didnt fit bigger injectors because you cant afford to. Cost is only reason, and maybe ease of mapping
Not all about money though is it. For example

I think i would try to find these limits too from stock injectors if i would especially focused on PD´s. I like stock injectors because they work GOOD, every bigger ones what we´ve had ( Bosio, 2xFirad, DSS ) have always had small problems on normal use. Maybe bad luck too.
And you think its easy to map these standard injectors to 270-300bhp? Lol

Pull the head and check your pistons they may be cracked already but you may have no issues!
Where exactly are these cracked pistons coming from? What causes cracked pistons??

I did a track day today at castle combe running 42 degree durations on stock injectors, 0 smoke (view video below), I have a stack EGT gauge pre turbo where my tubular manifold collects, the gauge records peak EGT so I can review at the end, 880C.

Gonna tell me my pistons are cracked? :confused:

https://www.facebook.com/alex.gazz/videos/10157611776775464/

Log block 4

22.14 3822 25.1 38.8 1.7
22.48 4053 26.4 42.3 0

OMG LOOK 16 degree EOI thats way over 8-10 must be so much smoke and sky high EGT. Lol, idiot

The smoke on the video at Narco is, in my opinion, totally unacceptable on a road car.
Considering the smoke pretty much dissapears once boost is there I concluded hes just not running a smoke limiter, looks exactly 100% like my rolling road when I ran without a smoke limiter.

is it possible making 270hp in stock injectors? yea it is. its safe? no its not

what is the big deal?
Exactly. Guess these people are salty that the same power has been achieved at 10-20% of the cost they spent at Darkside Developments getting someone else to do everything for them instead of learning a little :D oh... just looked at the signature pic of xjay1337 and found the darkside sticker in the bottom corner :D speculation confirmed. Bought not built :D:p;) I did wonder why he kept talking about "COST". Finding every reason why it's not acceptable for all these people achieving what he never could.

Ergo if its not safe you cant (shouldn't ) do it.
Coulda shoulda woulda, you can't do it, because you don't know anything. We beholders of knowledge can, and do whatever we want. Hell I got a spare ASZ block sitting in my garage, rebuilt and ready to swap when "my pistons crack" :D:eek: the only reason why one shouldn't do it... is COST of replacements when things break. Oh wait, I forgot about the know-how, tools and equipment required to swap your block when the pistons crack from the stress caused by your unsafe tune. You are right, without that, you "shouldn't" do it.

Clap... clap... clap

F1 engines are rebuilt or replaced after every season... hardly any miles on those engines, because they run "unsafe" in your book. But guess what, they got the money, *know-how and equipment* to do that.

Guess they SHOULDN'T squeeze every last bit of power out of their engines though, coz that aint safe :D:D

gabrieeel said:
normally playing safe doesnt get 1st place.... at any competicion....

good luck for all....
Exactly.

wow man. give up

Edit: wow just read your build thread, guess I was spot on. Well done, you fitted a new gearknob and watched Darkside do all the real work for you while you buffed their bottom line. Satisfied? Haha

From your build thread
It's a HUGE investment for not much extra BHP (perhaps 40-50bhp and another 20ft lb or torque, although it will hold it's power for a much larger proportion of the rev range) but once Darkside have cracked the fuel pump and injectors, then we can start going for the 300bhp barrier which is ultimately what I'm aiming for!
So I was right. ^^^ Explained as to why your so negative about anyone achieving your goal of 300bhp by investing in just a turbo. Get off this thread man it ain't for you. You submit 0 knowledge to this thread, just boring rants. Uh... buh-bye!
 
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xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Phone posting s forgive formatting replying to my idiot co poster.
Not all about money though is it. For example
And you think its easy to map these standard injectors to 270-300bhp? Lol
Ummm pretty easy considering any idiot can put a tune on a pd engine comparitvely. You are acting like these are HUGE breakthroughs to developments in the pd field.
Pd engines are dead and gone afaik. Its like claiming to be the best at a ps2 game. Noone cares
Where exactly are these cracked pistons coming from? What causes cracked pistons??
I did a track day today at castle combe running 42 degree durations on stock injectors, 0 smoke (view video below), I have a stack EGT gauge pre turbo where my tubular manifold collects, the gauge records peak EGT so I can review at the end, 880C.
Gonna tell me my pistons are cracked? :confused:
Did you miss the part where Bobby, an experienced tuner, found he had cracked pistons? And several other posters on here have cracked pistons or worse! By running aggressive/smokeyntunes
]
Considering the smoke pretty much dissapears once boost is there I concluded hes just not running a smoke limiter, looks exactly 100% like my rolling road when I ran without a smoke limiter.
Great so removal of smoke limiter because smoke must mean power ! After all thats why we tune diesels (apparently )!
exactly. Guess these people are salty that the same power has been achieved at 10-20% of the cost they spent at Darkside Developments getting someone else to do everything for them instead of learning a little :D oh... just looked at the signature pic of xjay1337 and found the darkside sticker in the bottom corner :D speculation confirmed. Bought not built :D:p;) I did wonder why he kept talking about "COST". Finding every reason why it's not acceptable for all these people achieving what he never could.
You really are an idiot. Darkside and I are not on the best terms (politics) but i have nothing against them and their turbo kit has been really reliable. They know not to push to unsafe limits!

I am not (and haven't ) been running Darkside software for the best part of 6 months.
Not going to bite at your attempt that I don't work on my own car.
From your build thread
So I was right. ^^^ Explained as to why your so negative about anyone achieving your goal of 300bhp by investing in just a turbo. Get off this thread man it ain't for you. You submit 0 knowledge to this thread, just boring rants. Uh... buh-bye!
You clearly havent read my build thread.
I understand tuning side but openly not enough to tune a very complex Common rail engine. Luckily for me I am good friends with one of the best TDI tuners in europe and he was able to help me.
First 2.0 common rail in world afaik, with a fully custom cp3 tune with big turbo without any issues at all......that is what you call leading the way. f i wanted to chase peak power then i would have built a pd but I wanted something suitable for the 21st century
Certainly we are not stupid enough to run unsafe values just to win the dyno cock waving contest.
We also dont push stock components past their safe limits because we are too stupid to tune large injectors which have nuances because we dont understand how to read duration maps, or buy cheap injectors without proper duration maps and try to guess because it saved us 200 quid.

Also if you werent stuck in the past you'd realise you can do protection on modern ecu based on various factors (including egt) which we have done to prevent completely unsafe engine conditions.
Which is why I've done over 50k with my turbo kit without a single issue.
 
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gabrieeel

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
portugal
TDI
IBIZA MK2 IT pd160
just to make clear.. the 3 best fwd diesel in europe are 1.9tdi pd engine.

they should be the bestbguys to talk about whats this engines can do... dont you think?
 

gabrieeel

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
portugal
TDI
IBIZA MK2 IT pd160
i have seen cracked piston even in stock cars... that doesn mean nothing.

im not talking about duration. i just stated the FACT its possible to go 270 bhp in stock injectors.
 

Sheppy

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Location
Worcestershire
TDI
Polo GT TDi, 2260, Stock injectors, 225bhp
Your still here..... Last 2-3 pages have been about you repeating over and over again what people can and can't do with their own cars and knowledge. You've made your point "its unsafe". Well done

Ummm pretty easy considering any idiot can put a tune on a pd engine comparitvely. You are acting like these are HUGE breakthroughs to developments in the pd field.
"Pretty easy considering <insert brainless rant here>"

Pd engines are dead and gone afaik. Its like claiming to be the best at a ps2 game. Noone cares
Just goes to show how much of a salty idiot you are, "noone cares" yet here you are checking the PD injector thread giving your 2 cents of BS every day

Did you miss the part where Bobby, an experienced tuner, found he had cracked pistons? And several other posters on here have cracked pistons or worse! By running aggressive/smokeyntunes
Yeh, I read his words, and I saw your picture, but it means nothing. I was asking you exactly how does this happen. High EGT? Smoke? Early SOI? Tell me! How do these pistons crack? Mr man of knowledge, share something.

Great so removal of smoke limiter because smoke must mean power ! After all thats why we tune diesels (apparently )!
Removal of smoke limit makes it easier to tune a big turbo in the first instance as it shows exactly how quick the turbo will spool when you throw fuel (and therefore exhaust flow) at the turbine. Mine is back on now after tuning, as you can see in the video, but I ran without it for a few months on the road, to clog up the intake of people like you when I "smoke you off" down the ring road. :D

You really are an idiot. Darkside and I are not on the best terms (politics) but i have nothing against them and their turbo kit has been really reliable. They know not to push to unsafe limits!

I am not (and haven't ) been running Darkside software for the best part of 6 months.
Not going to bite at your attempt that I don't work on my own car.
What's your point? Mine was that your here being annoying about a topic of which you have nothing to offer, and the reason your here is because your bothered about investing 10s of thousands with <insert tuner here - only picked Darkside because why not> into your bought-not-built car so they can do it all for you (because you have no idea what you are doing) and someone here has made your goal by bolting on a turbo, and applying their KNOWLEDGE. :D

"Not going to bite" coz you know its true and got nothing to say haha

You clearly havent read my build thread.
Clearly I didn't read it, I mean how could I possibly quote from your build thread if I didn't read it. Duh...

I understand tuning side but openly not enough to tune a very complex Common rail engine.
Love this bit. "Very complex common rail engine????" HAHAHAHAHA
Separate the fuel pump away from the injector and cam lobes and all of a sudden everything becomes VERY SIMPLE. In comparrision, constant fuel pressure, wider injection window. Do you have a clue what you are taking about? Please elaborate on this "very complex" idea you have in your head hahaha.

Luckily for me I am good friends with one of the best TDI tuners in europe and he was able to help me.
That is lucky for you, because without good friends like him you'd get nowhere. I know from reading your BUILD THREAD your talking about Bobby, who was here not long ago giving his 2c and waving cracked piston talk around.

We also dont push stock components past their safe limits because we are too stupid to tune large injectors which have nuances because we dont understand how to read duration maps, or buy cheap injectors without proper duration maps and try to guess because it saved us 200 quid.
"We" - another case of "We (I say we, Alex did it :D)", guess I didn't read your build thread.

40 degrees duration.
No running issues at all.
Damage still done.

I hope gok wan will appreciate that over 40 degrees is asking for trouble.
Again please explain to me how this happened. I've already posted to you:
- My duration of 42degrees
- My SOI of 26.5 degrees
- My EOI of 16 degrees
- My EGT of 880C peak ON TRACK for 15 minutes pushing the car to the MAX
- A video of the 0 smoke

Over 40 degrees here, please, explain to me where my danger is and why I can't/shouldn't be doing what I am doing.
 

xjay1337

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2014
Location
United Kingdom
TDI
Scirocco CR170.
Haha.
Im bored of replying to you.
Im very open where my knowledge is lacking but I do plenty of hands on bits with my car. I make no secret i am very grateful to Darksideand subsequently bobby for their help.
Edc17 is much more complex than ed15 hence the hundreds of "custom" tuners who only touch pd engines.
The factyou dont acknowledge this shows your level if intelect.

I am out of this debate , alex. As youre trying to make it more personal about me rather than the technical points.
 
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Sheppy

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Location
Worcestershire
TDI
Polo GT TDi, 2260, Stock injectors, 225bhp
Haha.
Edc17 is much more complex than ed15 hence the hundreds of "custom" tuners who only touch pd engines.
The factyou dont acknowledge this shows your level if intelect.
You said the engine was "complex" now your saying the ECU is "complex" - which one is it and could you elaborate on what exactly makes it complex?

I guess you don't have the "level if intelect" to explain what you mean by "complex" so I will do it for you:

EDC17 ECU has tricore protection which means that you cannot tune over the OBD port, the ECU has to be removed from the car, opened and benched for modification. Most tuners don't touch the ECU for *exactly this reason*

Besides that (oh and maybe the fact you cant read the maps in VAGEDCSuite - but most tuners have WinOLS anyway) the ECU is in no way any more complex than any other Bocsh, Siemens, whatever ECU. Infact, as I said, once past tricore, its much SIMPLER to tune as you have more CONTROL over the fuel pressure (separate pump) and a wider injection window (don't have injector lobes over a pre-set crank angle range to generate pressure).

The factyou dont acknowledge this shows your level if intelect.

You should be bored of repeating the same boring "its not safe, you shouldn't do it" bottom line to people have the money, knowledge, experience, spare parts, equipment to do whatever they please, it's very boring indeed.
 

gabrieeel

Active member
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Location
portugal
TDI
IBIZA MK2 IT pd160
You said the engine was "complex" now your saying the ECU is "complex" - which one is it and could you elaborate on what exactly makes it complex?

I guess you don't have the "level if intelect" to explain what you mean by "complex" so I will do it for you:

EDC17 ECU has tricore protection which means that you cannot tune over the OBD port, the ECU has to be removed from the car, opened and benched for modification. Most tuners don't touch the ECU for *exactly this reason*

Besides that (oh and maybe the fact you cant read the maps in VAGEDCSuite - but most tuners have WinOLS anyway) the ECU is in no way any more complex than any other Bocsh, Siemens, whatever ECU. Infact, as I said, once past tricore, its much SIMPLER to tune as you have more CONTROL over the fuel pressure (separate pump) and a wider injection window (don't have injector lobes over a pre-set crank angle range to generate pressure).

The factyou dont acknowledge this shows your level if intelect.

You should be bored of repeating the same boring "its not safe, you shouldn't do it" bottom line to people have the money, knowledge, experience, spare parts, equipment to do whatever they please, it's very boring indeed.
WIN.

we should push the limits... because the engine is old, doesnt mean we dont need to try improving....
 

Sheppy

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Location
Worcestershire
TDI
Polo GT TDi, 2260, Stock injectors, 225bhp
Lol. You make a point, of which you don't really know what your saying (by consolidating the technical details into the word "complex" - "level if intelect"), then yawn ("level if intelect") when you are corrected and its explained properly to you.

Why come here and talk the talk on a subject you know absolutely nothing about if the technical detail bores you?

I quote you from earlier

If you aren't used to having BS called out or topics changing slightly then maybe forums aren't the best place for you :)
Speechless
 
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p0wer

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Jyvaskyla, Finland
TDI
Golf 3 -94 1Z 377hp, Golf 3 Cabrio 4-Motion 1.8T 620hp, Golf 3 Syncro 2.9 VR6 HX52, Bora AJM 4-Motion 2260vk +120% Firad, Passat 3B Syncro AFN 2260vk
And you think its easy to map these standard injectors to 270-300bhp? Lol
It is good job if its true.

Is straight AFR curve 370hp with MSA-15 easy? Well, yes it is. Also launch control, controlled from original cruise control switches to MSA-15 is easy to do too.

There isn´t that much of factors on old PD either which wouldn´t be easy to do.
 

Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
actually the hard part is usually not to make the number on a dyno, the hard part is to make it useable everyday with acceptable amount of smoke and lag. that's where the hours seep in.. making a tune for high dyno number is the easiest thing ever. boost limit/durationmap. done. takes estimated under 2 minutes of calibration work on a PD/2260 to make 230hp, if the only thing what counts is a number on some dyno

p0wer, launch control with cruise control switches, awesome!
 

Sheppy

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Location
Worcestershire
TDI
Polo GT TDi, 2260, Stock injectors, 225bhp
actually the hard part is usually not to make the number on a dyno, the hard part is to make it useable everyday with acceptable amount of smoke and lag. that's where the hours seep in.. making a tune for high dyno number is the easiest thing ever. boost limit/durationmap. done. takes estimated under 2 minutes of calibration work on a PD/2260 to make 230hp, if the only thing what counts is a number on some dyno.
Agreed, and re: AFR, a lot of time is spent on the dyno properly calibrating the duration maps to give the right amount of fuel for higher quantities than are available on the stock duration maps.

It's one thing to just set the 60mg row to 60 degree duration (and completely decalibrate the file/trick the ECU), it's a different thing to get some good fuel scaling on the axis and extrapolate the stock durations to higher fuel quantities, and its a third thing to actually then calibrate exactly how much duration is required at different SOI points to get for example, 100mg, by measuring AFR, boost level, MAF and therefore calculate the actual fuel delivery vs what you requested it to do, adjust the file, upload over OBD, go again, rince repeat... Without calibration my extrapolated fuel quantities have at times been 3-5mg/stroke off!

I've seen countless "professional" tunes where the tuner claims the file will do 270bhp and the file looks like this:



I'm sure the file does do 270bhp but I'm not willing to use it! Looks disgusting.

I like the car to know exactly what is going on, make the tune like the OEM would with correct fuel quantities. I actually find getting a straight AFR line accross the rev range challenging on a PD. When you start trying to do this you have many more things to take into account:

- Diagnostic limits over 70mg to allow block 4 logging to tell you how much mg/st the ECU thinks it's putting in
- Diagnostic limits for MAP sensor and MAF sensor to read above 3 bar or 1250mg/st air
- Block 4 logging to tell you exactly what SOI and duration the ECU has decided to use once it has interpolated between different duration maps and IQs etc
- Calibrating the duration maps to give correct fuel quantities at different SOI points - bearing in mind the varying fuel injection pressure depending on when you start injection
- Fixing the boost/N75 after you have increased/decreased fuel where required to maintain steady boost levels
- Changing axis on N75 maps to give you additional "resolution" where needed - for example stock maps often jump from 2500 to 3500 on the axis - giving you no control over the important areas of a GTB2260 spool
- Playing with different SOI levels to find the most effecient way to deliver the fuel
- Playing with different static cam timing (measured as sync angle on block 4) to find the optimal timing between cam and crank

Doing these things can take up hours and hours of dyno development time, especially when you are flashing over OBD every time. However, once you have done it and the "backend" of the file (duration calibration stuff) is done... you have so much more flexibility in that you can start playing with torque limits, boost levels, AFR/smoke limiters, SOI points, and build a really good tune that is smooth, responsive, smoke free, low EGT, etc etc

Anyway, almost finished preparing a spare ECU with immo off and header pins instead of an EPROM chip which I can hook up to OLS300 and really speed up the calibration process. Just waiting for the header pins to arrive, they were difficult to source!
 
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Rub87

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 10, 2006
Location
Belgium
TDI
Ibiza '99 90HP
IIRC on the last PD I tuned it was hard getting much over 90 mg at mid rpm with 40deg duration, after that obviously maf is maxed and one cannot easily calculate IQ from maf/lambda but I don't see the IQ/deg duration ratio going up with rising rpm/SOI
 

Sheppy

Active member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Location
Worcestershire
TDI
Polo GT TDi, 2260, Stock injectors, 225bhp
IIRC on the last PD I tuned it was hard getting much over 90 mg at mid rpm with 40deg duration, after that obviously maf is maxed and one cannot easily calculate IQ from maf/lambda but I don't see the IQ/deg duration ratio going up with rising rpm/SOI
Good to know, I just happen to be at 90mg now. Due to come accross this challenge I suppose. At what reading is the MAF maxed?

You can also get a good idea of how much air there is by calculating based on boost. Say you have 2 bar boost - do 3 * 475 to get the MAF. Of course this is not always accurate as the VE changes over the rev range (I guess? - decreasing the higher you rev?)

Edit:
but I don't see the IQ/deg duration ratio going up with rising rpm/SOI
Don't quite understand what you mean by this this - but I can say I understand the following "rules":
- The earlier the SOI, the longer the duration required, as at early SOI there is less injection pressure than at late SOI
- The higher the RPM, the longer the duration required, as IQ is based over time, duration is based over degrees - at higher RPM more degrees go by in the same amount of time
 
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moivw

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2011
Location
France
TDI
Séat ibiza(s): ahu and pd100
Today 1.9 pd update on stock injectors before engine rebuild and preparation https://youtu.be/jbTSwg953YU
I read a little of the previous posts, there is no soi / duration / atdc stock on this file, there is more than 2-3 hours to prepare the file alone + direct logs and fine tune, few more hours
 
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turbovan+tdi

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Mar 23, 2014
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Abbotsford, BC.
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2003 TDI 2.0L ALH, auto, silver wagon, lowered, Colt stage 2 cam, ported head,205 injectors, 1756 turbo, Malone 2.0, 3" exhaust, 18" BBS RC GLI rims. 2004 blue GSW TDI, 5 speed, lowered, GLI BBS wheels painted black, Malone stage 2, Aerotur
Great thread, sort of. :cool:

Skillturbo's, kudo's on your power level but your smoke free tune is laughable at best. If you drove that around here, you'd be neck punched for being a dick. I am surprised the Police haven't pulled you over or some enviro **** hasn't made you suck on your own tail pipe. :eek:
 

waynemodz

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
south africa
TDI
VW Polo PD130 9N3
Im abit lost with the HP and BHP quotes as the pd130 is 130HP at the crank. So are these 230hp 270hp figures crank or wheel/load based. I ask this because my tuned pd130 with 1.5 bar , 35 degrees exhaust fmic, gives me 150bhp, 1.85 bar with 27/38 gtb2260vk gives me 190bhp. 230bhp maybe with boost like 2.2 bar? 42degrees.... but 60 degrees? Dont you come to a point where you are injection during the exhaust stroke? I just feel that insane durations 45 and above dont make sense mechanically. Im trying to get my mind around all this.
 

waynemodz

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2012
Location
south africa
TDI
VW Polo PD130 9N3
Exit speeds based on hp for 9n3 or 6L:

130 - 85 mph / 136km/h
160 - 91 mph / 146 km/h
190 - 96 mph / 155 km/h
230 - 105 mph / 165 km/h
270 - 109 mph / 174 km/h

Excluding nitrous wish should result in 10-15km extra on exit speed.

Thats how i judge ponys....
 
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