poor mpg 1,6 bluemotion

Hello.

i was wondering if anyone has had any problem with high diesel consumption on 1,6 tdi?

it is a 2011 with 190000km on it. the last service was not so long ago, and included all filters.

there is no fault codes to be found, and as far as i can see, all actuall values seems to make sense.. it regenerate and behave as it should be. it doesent seem to lack any power neither really..no diesel in oil, and no leaks etc. just it uses all to much diesel

the dealership could not find anything wrong with it..

I dont know very well the miles pr gallon or whatever you use, so hope it is ok i use km and litres.. as for the last tank with mostly long distance driving, it used 0,55 litre pr 10km total.
at 80kmt straight ahead and just enought troothle to keep speed, it show actuall consumption 0,54.. it should be close to half of that really.

in compare i have a 2008 passat 1,9 pd, and this uses quite stable 0,46 on on tank.

I know abouth driving style etc etc, but i use both car myself, and i guess im over average interested in mpg, so it is not only my driving who is the problem

hmm.. guess allot of info at one time.. but in main, any idea where to begin search for the problem? guess could be allot of things, but most of them should trow a fault code or show strange values i think? or?

Have you (or the dealership) checked for dragging rear (parking) brakes?
With the car on lift, a rear wheel spun with enough force should make 6 full turns (or more).

yes i checked myself, and it run free.

guess i should ad, there is a recal or what you call it for SW update ++ regarding the dieselgate.. but it this car has not been in yet, so it have original SW. anyway i can not imagine it wil get any better mpg after that..

Don't get it to have the dieselgate done... That updated software is total crap..
BTW, what SW version do you have? Can you have it checked? Is it anything 997x or older?

yes i dont think it is any point get it upgraded.. seems they decided here in norway there will be some extra warranty on some parts regarding exhaust and injection etc, after an update. as for now it seems its voluntary to do this upgrade or not..

but my plan was to get it tuned a little and at same time delete/remove egr and dpf.. so in that case i guess all warranty wil be long gone anyway

but first i would like to get it sorted out the mpg issue this car have..

wil check engine sw first thing tomorow.

Address 01: Engine (J623-CAYC) Labels:. 03L-906-023-CAY.clb Part No SW: 03L 906 023 DQ HW: 03L 906 023 A Component: 1,6l R4 CR td H23 5915 Revision: -------- Serial number: 00000000000000 Coding: 00114014030401080000 Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00152 ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM16TDI02103L906023DQ 001007 ROD: EV_ECM16TDI_001_VW36.rod VCID: 78D10907C390FE86B2-802C
No fault code found. Readiness: 0000 0000
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Does this make any sense regarding SW version you mentioned..?

i think i found a converter to fint mpg..?
so on paper this car should be possible to go as low as about 70
but realistic i guess somewere around 60..? if you try hard
mine use on one tank average 40

this is the absolute lowest possible i get. and with full attention to drive most economic all time..

it is not extremely high, but sins this car has longer 5th gear and its lighter then my 1,9pd passat b6, 5 speed manual (who use about 50 on one thank average)
i test drive a b7 1,6bmt few weeks ago, and with normal driving in mixed trafic, this lay around high 50. 6 speed manual


sorry for my english btw.. hope you understand it anyway

The SW version is 5915. It is old (in fact it's the factory one), buggy and troublesome. It causes problems with injectors, icing in intercooler, EGR valve malfunctions, etc. Besides, DFP regens are so rought that you can feel the annoying vibration in the cabin while in regen and standing still/idling.

I'd suggest getting 9972 if you have an ability. It's a huge improvement, yet has got nothign related to dieselgate stuff. However, the dealership won't probably install it...

That engine should be returning fuel economy of about 5.8 l/100 km in the city driving conditions.

hmm yes i see.

no i dont have the possibility to flash any software for myself..

i really dont have much experience on these particular engine in main, so im not sure were to begin..

how about intake, does it get clogged allot on these? guess it should have an intake flaps also? can it get stuck, without a fault code for example?

could be the injectors i guess, but would think this should show up one place or another? like diesel in oil etc?

other option is to get newest software when i get the recall, then complain after, why it "suddenly" use way to much diesel... but not the best plan really..

perhaps 5,8 in city, even this i think is allot.. but when it use 5,4 just to keep speed at 80kmt at straight road, it just is to high. i almost never drive in city trafic.
i tested it by measure actuall consumption on one tank of diesel, and it is pretty much equall to what the computer say.

the tyres are stock btw. also tryed drive it hard at high rew for about 10km, but it doesent seems to help really.

What is the engine code? I have a simple 1.6 TDI (CAYC) and mine does NOT have the flaps.
Intake clogging should not be a real issue (at that mileage) but it does clog (due to soot from EGR and oil & oil vapours from turbo and CCV).

I believe there are people who work with VAG cars in your area. Try asking if they have a VAS tool (Chinese, some of them are not so bad as ir sounds) and ECU flash database. Ask to look up for 9972 version software.

9972 is the way to start of even if you plan to get tuned. This one is the most stable and reliable made by VW. If a tuner will start applying tune on a factory buggy software, what will happen?

These engines do not dillute diesel to oil. The injection system is Common Rail, not Pumpe Duse. However, injectors and faulty/clogged/malfunctioning EGR cooler on these engines are a real problem. Once you get a fault code, in fact you need to pay big money for repairs.

Dieselgate recall software is crap. Doubt the dealership will do anything if you complain that "it suddenly started using too much fuel after fix applied".

Also, these engines are know to sweep oil at valve cover area. Pull the decorative engine cover and inspect. If you see signs of oil, the entire valve cover needs to be replaced (don't ask, long story...). This is a priceoy item, besides, this is labour intensive too ($$$), as injectors, fuel fail, etc will need to be removed.

yes its cayc this one also.

about software, i guess i could just ask at the dealership? it seems it is not ready for my car to get the newest SW with all crap included.. so can not imagine they would mind put in the whatever is awailable today? will send a message and ask anyway.

i know its CR, but atleast on other brand, a faulty injector does for sure lead to diesel in oil from time to time. but anyway i dont beleive the injectors are giving up quite yet. (i hope)

Can not see any leak anywere, either diesel or oil, so guess thats a good thing.

I ordered a complete timingbelt kit today, as i think 210000km limit seems little high.. anyway its past 190000km, so not so long until anyway. i dont know, but a theory would be the belt is a little streched, but still inside the corridor, and so maybe, even i doubt it, this could lead to slightly higher consumption.. but this a loooongs shot really..

anyway so at same time wil get a chance to look a little closer at diferent things. intake is one atleast. or if lucky, will see smth obvious somewere. but again, this i doubt too..

Yes, it's worth asking! If you have a friend at a dealership, this would help a lot.. Ask if they could flash you 9972 SW version for this engine. If they need a recall code - give them "EA32" - this one is for issues with EGR cooler and part of it is a software update.

Water pumps fail on these engines at about 140k km - 170k km range. There is a bearing and seal failure (not a catastrophic one) which results in water loss.
It's possible that your car has already WP and TB replaced - worth popping the cover and checking if a new belt is installed.
If not, then it's really time to do the complete TB job including water pump and the thermostat. The thermostat is a royal PITA to change, it's a bit more expensive as it comes with entire flange but totally worth the extra money and labour at that mileage.

Thermostat on mine (118k km) is already exhausted - the coolant temperature never climbs above 83 *C under normal driving conditions no matter of what (you need VCDS to verify that, since the dummy gauge in the cluster will always show 90 *C anyway).

So i was at the dealer today, but not so much help to get there.. should wait for a soon to come, new software... so, no thank you..

About belt and waterpump, i know it is not changed, as the previous owner had the car sins it was new, and he was told it should be changed only at 210000km, so he didnt bother yet. i looked at it too, and it looks ok, but not new for sure. anyway i got the kit, included waterpump, so should be ok then i guess.

its a little funny, but when google "consumption" and golf 6 1,6bm, the first hit is a test from some motorjournalist back in 2010 when it was new. and after test it, they got a really poor result. so they got the dealer to check it, and they found out there was a flap in the intake who didnt open and close correctly.. so after fiks this, the consumption went down quite a bit. there was no more info, and sins the article is 7 year old, i guess no one remember anyway..

just i tought there was a flap, same as before? ASV? i seen on other vag they still have, only now elecronical controled..? guess this also its kind of a part of the egr procces?

So the dealer refused to reflash the ECU?
Is there any other dealer around?
Ask them to flash the newest one (priot to dieselgate, which is supposed to be 9972) for a fee. Shouldn't charge more than 1 hour labour. Tell them you are having problems with EGR cooler.

Again, I'd suggest adding thermostat and fresh coolant to your TB kit.

Probably the source is referring to intake flaps. Not sure which 1.6 engines had them - mine does not but mine is not BlueMotion. You might want to pop the hood and check the intake manifold if there's a motor bolted onto side of manifold.
Doubt it was ASV. These are spring loaded and they have hall sensor which indicates the flap position. If it would be not fully opening (or not fully closing), you'd get a CEL and a code for that.

the dealer was not very interested at all to be honest.. as usual i guess..
as for the SW, i dont beleive it would change much for my mpg. but would be nice to get rid of some bugs anyway, yes

As rumor say, it is possible for everyone to get older SW if create an user at ERWIN, get one VAS5054, download ODIS it should be possible to flash for yourself. i dhave not study details, as this is rather new to me.. but i understand, this is probably smth who will not work for very long..?

the kit included thermostat too btw

my car is abluemotion. unfortunately i dont have the car here today, so no chance look at it now.. as for the flap. yes its just a theory.. yes it should make a cell of anything. just thought maybe it was very clogged with soot.. but from experience, even allot of soot, doesent change mpg allot it seems..

well.. not so much to update here. i only had this car for about a month, and in main, these are ok to drive and all i guess, but it feels rather cheap.. so probably will put it out for sale soon.

about the mpg "problem" i guess i just leave that to the new owner.. it is not terrible high, and for someone not very interestet in fuel economy, it should be ok. so guess wil leave to the new owner if upgrade sw or not too.

so most likely i will get one more B6 Passat with 1,9pd. very stabile engine in my opinion. give it new oil every 10000km, and it wil run "forever" also except maybe B8, the b6 is a very good loocking car i think

anyway thx for help and tips etc

In case anyone else has same problem, the solution here seems was timing.. after change timing belt kit, it dropped down to should be normal.

the old belt looked just fine too, but maybe was just stretched a little?
not sure, but i think these engine have no need for timing, except lock crank, pump and camshaft togheter? rest is set by engine ecu?
also there is sensor on cam and crank, so i dont understand why there was no faultcodes..? only the pump maybe could be off a litt, but i thought thoose 3 folow eachother, so.. strangest thing..

anyway it is a little more fun to sell smth who work 100%, so im glad i took that job, before put it for sale.

Doubt there exists a fault code for incorrect timing... At least PD engines allowed quite a big range for cam-to-crank timing. I have seen cars with Torsion value as low as -5.6 to as high as 4.0 or so... Such a wide range will vary between power and fuel economy a lot...

Did your crank, cam and fuel pump locking tools slide easily in when engine was set to TDC? Or was there a need to wiggle some component? If this was the case, then which component did not align properly before replacing the timing belt?

Also, what fuel economy does the car return after the TB service?

And one final question - was the water pump original one or was it replaced? The date marking should be somewhere on it... I guess if the dealer replaced the water pump (which is very prone to failure on this engine), there's a chance they screwed the timing.

i have same engine (CAYC) Passat B7, and the best i can get on highway is 5.2L/100km. And that is when i reset the count in mid ride. There have been few times when the readings have turned normal (around 4L/100km) and that happend for 2-3 times in a one week period.
Car itself is working fine, have made thru two MOT checks with very good results, but the economy is very bad.
I have changed DPF filter, temperature sensors, fuel temp. sensor, lambda sensor, poured in all kinds of different additives, drove in summer and winter, tried summer tires and winter tires, and even timing belt kit got changed, but nothing made difference.
Only sensors and things that could affect fuel economy are camshaft and crankshaft sensors, but it doesnt really feel logical.
And ofcourse no fault codes.
Many say that you cant get the mileage what factory states, but i know that older 1.9TDI can make factory specifications, it just needs some gentle driving. If VW tells me that my car should have 3.8L/100km on highway (smaller VAG cars even 3.6), then over 5 liters is absurd. 20-30% more than factory specs, this is not ok.
There are many threads across the internet with same engine having bad milegage, hopefully someday we will have solution for this problem.