Project Kill Da Auto Wabbit!, Or how I learned to love the Manual Swap

Cool, thanks for the complement! Let me know if you need any help and I'll try to be of assistance

alphaseinor said:

Cool, thanks for the complement! Let me know if you need any help and I'll try to be of assistance

Click to expand...

thanx
i have started the conversion yesterday and i took out the engine so i have a better view of parts .i noticed that in your tutorial the converion is automatic to 5 speed and i have 01 tiptronic and i see some inconsistency

1-the transmission mount does not fitt
2-in the tiptronic harnes there is no vehicle speed sensor
there may be more but thats what i found in the moment

so is there a chance to have e look in the bentley manual (i dont have one) and show me a photo or the color codes of the Vehicle speed sensor or a idea .thanx

So its been awhile since I've poked my head out in here...
my swapped car still going strong after 30,000+ miles :-D

baracuda said:

thanx
i have started the conversion yesterday and i took out the engine so i have a better view of parts .i noticed that in your tutorial the converion is automatic to 5 speed and i have 01 tiptronic and i see some inconsistency

1-the transmission mount does not fitt
2-in the tiptronic harnes there is no vehicle speed sensor
there may be more but thats what i found in the moment

so is there a chance to have e look in the bentley manual (i dont have one) and show me a photo or the color codes of the Vehicle speed sensor or a idea .thanx

Click to expand...

This thread is specifically about swapping the 4 speed 01M to a 5 speed. Tiptronic transmissions are different as you have found out. A few here have done it, and I know the VSS has been an issue. My best advice would be to get a Bentley manual and figure out which wires in the auto trans harness relate to the VSS. You may have to do some trial and error. My guess is you'll just need to re-pin the ECU harness to get the signal where it needs to go.

Good luck.

TDICADDGUY said:

This thread is specifically about swapping the 4 speed 01M to a 5 speed. Tiptronic transmissions are different as you have found out. A few here have done it, and I know the VSS has been an issue. My best advice would be to get a Bentley manual and figure out which wires in the auto trans harness relate to the VSS. You may have to do some trial and error. My guess is you'll just need to re-pin the ECU harness to get the signal where it needs to go.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

yeap it turns out that its a major issue ,im almost done with the conversion and the VSS thingy is a PITA duble time ,still im happy that i have that CRAPP out of the car and i see no MIL Light on

1more thing please ....after i recoded vith vcds to 00002 and cleared fault codes ,after rescan i get TCU related errors
shuld i get them ? or i did not recode it correctly >\?

TDICADDGUY said:

This thread is specifically about swapping the 4 speed 01M to a 5 speed. Tiptronic transmissions are different as you have found out. A few here have done it, and I know the VSS has been an issue. My best advice would be to get a Bentley manual and figure out which wires in the auto trans harness relate to the VSS. You may have to do some trial and error. My guess is you'll just need to re-pin the ECU harness to get the signal where it needs to go.

Good luck.

Click to expand...

I agree, get the bentley manual. It will help to find out what Pins on your ECU that you need to repin to get the VSS working again. All I can say is that
Pin #
1. is gonna go to a +12v (fuse #7 in my car)
2. goes back to your ECU (need to look at the Bentley to find the Pin X)
3. goes straight to ground

granted this is per the schematics for the 1.8T engine, though yours should be pretty close. I believe the only difference will be the pin you need to connect to at the ECU.

Its not worth trying to find the wires pre-existing in the harness, your best be is to run new wires. you'll need to get a connector for the VSS. P/N 300 973 793.
As far as getting a proper set of wires for the connector, you can try you local dealer once you have the connector. if your lucky as I was, they'll look in their scrap wires box and just give you a set. otherwise, I don't think their that expensive.

In addition to wiring in the VSS to the ECU, there should be another wire the originally went to the TCU that you will need to jump back to the ECU. The Speedometer will work without this, but you will get a CEL stating VSS implausable signal if you don't. I'll have toll look up what I had to do for this again.


As for getting the TCU errors, have you completely disconnected the TCU harness, and when you go back into the Engine module, does those coding show up correctly or has it returned to its original?

the schematics shuld work since my car is a 1.8t

Yes i disconnected the TCU harnes.... the original is "07550" and it shuld be "07500"
after i input 07500 it returns to its original value no change at all

today i did chiptuning the ecu and i dont have TCU related errors in autoscan its all clear exept in "intstruments"
but i dont know is it ok or not still need time to check it
i read that the ecu in my car is a auto specific and there is no way recoding it to manual .at least not with VCDS .is there some other way??

i got the connector (similar to mk3 golf vr6) and im ready to hook new wires
what color is in your car ?

i never start something without knowing what im doing ..thing is that the car was half dead and i had to start from somewhere
now it seems that i bit more than i culd chew .....LOL

can someone hook me with the 1.8T manual ECU OEM numbers
or at least what ecu shuld i look 4
i googled it and had no luck

baracuda said:

can someone hook me with the 1.8T manual ECU OEM numbers
or at least what ecu shuld i look 4
i googled it and had no luck

Click to expand...

The Part No for the Manual ECU that I picked up is : 06A 906 032 SK

Can you do an Auto Scan with your VCDS? I'm curious to see what the P/N or your ECU is... the ECU portion from my original looked like this:

Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 032 LQ
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G 0007
Coding: 07550
Shop #: WSC 06479
---VIN EDITED OUT----
1 Fault Found:
18032 - MIL Request Signal Active (Check TCM for errors too!)
P1624 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 0110 1101


=========

I'm thinking that since you have a 1.8T and also had the 09a tiptronic transmission, that you are in the same boat as I was/am.
your ECU will not be recoadable. That being the case, your best bet would be to go to a junkyard and get a matching ECU and Instrument cluster. (preferable with at least 1 matching key)

At this point, you swap the matching ECU and Cluster into your car. You'll likely need to get some new Keys. Buy theses online for cheap. Take the already cut key blade from your existing keys and switch them over to the new unprogrammed keys. throw away the uncut key blade. you VW dealer WILL NOT cut them as they are usually made of a harder metal then the genuine VW keys and damage their cutting bits.


Use VCDS to program the now new keys toy your cluster. You now have a working setup with hopefully no errors. (plus your cluster no longer had that nasty PNDR cutout...)


NOW...the problem at this point... If you do an auto scan on your car, you will notice that the replaced ECU and Cluster have the VIN of the donor car. that could possibly be a problem come state inspection/ emissions time (mostly emissions) or it can just be a problem if the donor car somewhere/somehow turns up as stolen.....


To remedy this, you will need to play some musical control Moduals...
First and foremost, you will need to know or find the 4 digit PIN for both your original ECU/Instrument Cluster as well as the Donor.
Don't know/have this? Get a Vag-Tacho (as much as I don't condone it, you can get a ripoff version for cheap searching Google)
Or if you want to dish out the big bucks, the real guys are here: http://www.vagdashcom.de/html/download.html (or at least their direct competitor)

you can use the Vag Tacho to read the PIN from each of the instrument clusters. I would not advise playing with any of the write functions as you can really mess something up if you don't know what you are doing...

The PINs should be the same for the Instrument Cluster and its matched ECU. Once you have this, the process would go something like this:
1. With Stock ECU connected, install the replacement cluster
2. Use VCDS to install the 'new' cluster to the Stock ECU.
2a. This will write your correct VIN into the used ECU
3. Install the replacement ECU leaving the replacement Cluster installed.
4. Use VCDS to 'marry' the cluster to the ECU
4a. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/Immobilizer_III_ECU_Swapping

If all was done correctly, your stock keys should actually work here now with the new ECU and Cluster
run a recode on your Gatway. Leave it to the same value its at (should be 00006??), we just want to refresh everything. Do a throttle body alignment, and you should be done.

Sorry, but I was not able to find the exact procedure to do step 2. I know is out there somewhere, but its been over a year since I've read through it.. Its similar to process in step 4/4a but in reverse. I'll see if I can track it down later.

---------------
..Ok, fire away with the questions. That was 3 months worth of experimenting and playing condensed into a few paragraphs... I'm sure its confusing...

ender3d ur a dream

thank u buddy i googled 4 days and cudnt get help
i whude come with the auto scan but last night i jammed the ecu with galeto trying to reflash the ecu with difrent bins
but now i got a START and at least i know what to do
thank u again
this is the AUTOSCAN

Friday,08,October,2010,17:26:02:26365

Chassis Type: 9M - VW Golf/Jetta IV
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN:EDITED OUT Mileage: 118850km/73849miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 06A-906-032-AWP.lbl
Part No: 06A 906 032 HF
Component: 1.8L R4/5VT G01 0005
Coding: 07550
Shop #: WSC 00066
3VWSE69M42M038542 VWZ7Z0A3947747

1 Fault Found:
18034 - Powertrain Data Bus: Missing Message from TCU
P1626 - 35-00 - -
Readiness: 0110 1101

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ASR.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 D
Component: ASR FRONT MK60 0103
Coding: 0018945
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000

2 Faults Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
01315 - Transmission Control Module
004 - No Signal/Communication

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 6Q0 909 605 F
Component: 04 AIRBAG VW6 0202 0004
Coding: 12340
Shop #: WSC 00066

2 Faults Found:
01218 - Side Airbag Igniter; Passenger Side (N200)
32-00 - Resistance too High
01589 - Igniter for Head-Airbag; Passenger Side (N252)
32-00 - Resistance too High

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1J0-907-487-A.lbl
Part No: 1J0 907 487 A
Component: Lenkradelektronik 0003
Coding: 00118
Shop #: WSC 00066

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 906 N
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V58
Coding: 07234
Shop #: WSC 00050


2 Faults Found:
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00066

2 Faults Found:
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 1H Komfortgerát HLO 0003
Coding: 00259
Shop #: WSC 00066

Part No: 1C1959801A
Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0002

Part No: 1C1959802A
Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0002

Part No: 1C0959811A
Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0002

Part No: 1C0959812A
Component: 1H Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0002

1 Fault Found:
01359 - Internal Central Locking Switch; Passenger Side (E198)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent

End ---------------------------------------------------------------------



1more thing
how did u menage the vss ?

@ baracuda

So you deff have a different ECU P/N then I originally Had, but I'm still willing to bet that yours is not recodable at all, as is evident to what you said. That you go to recode it, but it doesn't take. I had the same exact thing...

As for the VSS... It really wasn't all that hard once I understood what I was looking at in the wiring diagrams..

Pin 1 goes to Power
Pin 2 goes to Signal to the Speedo
Pin 3 goes to ground (trace #43 is ground)



For Pin 2, Snip off the wire at Pin #: 56 at your TCU connector. spice this into Pin #2 of the VSS. DONE!!! (this effectively runs the wire from Pin 2 of the VSS to the Speedo Signal Input (pin 28 of the blue connector for the cluster)

=========================================
NOW, youe Speedo and Odom will work, BUT... Once tyou get your ECU sorted out, you will still get a CEL that you VSS is implausible. Your ECU 'knows' the car is moving, but cant read at what speed... you need to snip another wire from the TCU connector (Pin #63) and get it connected to the signal output for the speedo (pin # 3 blue connector, cluster)

there is an intermediate connection between this and the cluster connector. If you can manager to tie in here, that is pry best. I was not able to so I ran the wire through the firewall just behind the cluster. If you pull off the black cover to the right of the windshield washer motor, you can see where the wires route through... (the line A27 goes to Pin #3 of the blue Cluster connector)




..and for good mesure here is the diagram for the Cruse control... Looks like we need to run the +12V to Pin #: 39 of our ECU.

i see
look i have galleto 1260 ecu flashing software and i have over 40gb of tuned and original maps .if i remap the ecu with the galleto will that do the work or i still have to find the ecu ( u wont belive that if i tell u that in macedonia is imposible to find a manual ecu)i own a junkyard and i junk specific vw and audi brand
and all i have a 97 golf ecu that does not fitt to the harness

baracuda said:

i see
look i have galleto 1260 ecu flashing software and i have over 40gb of tuned and original maps .if i remap the ecu with the galleto will that do the work or i still have to find the ecu ( u wont belive that if i tell u that in macedonia is imposible to find a manual ecu)i own a junkyard and i junk specific vw and audi brand
and all i have a 97 golf ecu that does not fitt to the harness

Click to expand...

Its theoretically possible to to flash the Auto ECU with a Manual bin file. This was something that I was actually trying to do, unfortunately, the software that I had access to could not communicate to the ECU, evven when I bypassed the Cluster and jumped the K line and W line together to get a direct read on the ECU. I know this worked, because I could get VCDS to read the ECU this way. I THINK the problem here was the the software I was using was an older version, and the flash version in my ECU was one of the newer releases from VW and therefore the Vag Tacho software I had couldn't properly understand it... :-/ (does that make sense?)

My hopes here was to have to seperate ECUs coded to a Manual configureation with the same bin file (so same VIN and S/N) so that if I have an issue with one, I can just switch them on the spot, plug and play... That and I could send one to get chipped, and have a fallback if need be.

SO, I would say yes, it SHOULD be possible, but I've had no luck in trying due to my communication issues.

On THAT note, On my playing around wit the writing bin files.
I Was able to do the same with clusters. I had a spare to experiment on. What I had done, was taken a read from my 'stock' cluster, (or at least what is now my permeate cluster) Edited the VIN and S/N information and wrote this file to a second cluster. This threw the cluster into a panic, and made it compleatly non-functional. BUT, we could still communicate with it and re-write to it. After comparing the stock read from both clusters, I found that the actual address location of the VIN and S/N was off between the two files by several bytes. SO, cluster A was looking for the information in a certain address, but with the new file written to it, the information was not where the computer expected it to be.

This was because the actual P/N and country of origin was different between the two clusters, making enough of a difference that one bin file could not be successfully written to the other.

I imagine that this could possibly be carried over to the ECU stuff as well, so best I can say is be careful when trying to write files to your ECU, because you can quite easily brick it and make it completely useless.

I was only willing to do all of this because I had a spare to play with that would not leave me stranded if i messed up.

today was a smooth day

i just flashed the ecu and recoded it to manual -so i can confirm that its working
u need the bin file and ecu flasher OBD (i preffer "on the bench")then recode it to in my case to 7500

im getting the camshaft timing sensor error and lights my check light
and strange gas meter and reserve light is going on and off when i start to move the car...

baracuda said:

and strange gas meter and reserve light is going on and off when i start to move the car...

Click to expand...

That's a side effect of the car not knowing its moving and seeing the gas leves dip doe to the gas sloshing around in the tank. Normally when everything is working right, the computer will compensate for this and the meter will stay level.

once you have wired in the VSS and also moved the wire for the speedo output as I've shown in my previous post, that will go away (at least it did for me)

as for the camshaft timing...I don't know. never had any issues with that.

its finished ,i drove it and i love it
now i just have to polish here and there +the cruse control is not responding ,got to check the wires again

i like to thank alphasenior 4 the tutorial tdiclub.com and a big thanx goes to you ENDER3D for all the help u gave me
thanx again and hope i see you all in some other treat

Hi everyone... I've had my manual swap for about 5 months now and everything seemed to be working fine. Then yesterday the speedometer and odometer stopped working... I checked for the coolant migration problem, and I unplugged the VSS connector and checked it for corrosion.

I'm pretty sure that this problem will turn out to just be a faulty VSS, but I'm still a bit worried until I know for sure.

I scanned the car with Vag-Com and I got these faults:
Address 02 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 01M 927 733 KT
Component: AG4 Getriebe 01M 4891
Coding: 00012
Shop #: WSC 00000
12 Faults Found:
00258 - Solenoid Valve 1 (N88)
36-00 - Open Circuit
00260 - Solenoid Valve 2 (N89)
36-00 - Open Circuit
00262 - Solenoid Valve 3 (N90)
36-00 - Open Circuit
00264 - Solenoid Valve 4 (N91)
36-00 - Open Circuit
00266 - Solenoid Valve 5 (N92)
36-00 - Open Circuit
00270 - Solenoid Valve 7 (N94)
36-00 - Open Circuit
00281 - Vehicle Speed Sensor (G68)
03-00 - No Signal
00652 - Gear Monitoring
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
00300 - Transmission Fluid Temp. Sensor (G93)
34-10 - No Malfunction Detected - Intermittent
01236 - Shift Selector Locking Solenoid (N110)
31-00 - Open or Short to Ground
00297 - Gearbox Speed Sensor (G38)
03-00 - No Signal
01314 - Engine Control Module
54-00 - Incorrectly Equipped

I'm pretty sure that most of these were there before though because of the way my mechanic rewired everything (not by the site's how-to) leaving some part of the TCU connected I assume... I don't get any CELs but I do have the PRND321 still on the dash and its permanently in the (R) mode. Remember that everything worked flawlessly for 5 months now...

Other symptoms are the fuel gauge dipping under acceleration; the clock somehow reset itself, but has seemed to stay on since... and my wife said that she feels a shudder or "jumpiness" in second gear at low RPM, but I haven't really felt this as much. Any thoughts??

Yeah, that's from the TCU being connected...

I'd try to disconnect the TCU and see what happens...

Where is the TCU connector exactly? What does it look like?

I have a bunch of random plugs hanging around in the engine bay now after the swap.

it's next to the cabin air filter, there is a pull that goes towards the air filter box. Not a big deal to pull .

FirstOrbit84 said:

Where is the TCU connector exactly? What does it look like?

I have a bunch of random plugs hanging around in the engine bay now after the swap.

Click to expand...

The TCU is under the plastic rain cover that your windshield wipers come out of. It will be the box with only 1 large wire connector coming out of it.

(image copied from Post #: 151 http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=151516&page=11)

Thanks folks! Its tough to read through all 102 pages...

I disconnected the TCU and the PRND321 went away but these are now the codes I'm getting:

Address 17 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 1J0 920 906 M
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V06
Coding: 07232
Shop #: WSC 00000
1 Fault Found:
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications

Address 19 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00000
1 Fault Found:
01315 - Transmission Control Module
49-00 - No Communications

Has the ECU not been recoded to manual? Looks like the ECU is looking for the TCU.

ECU has been coded to manual:

Address 01 -------------------------------------------------------
Controller: 038 906 012 FD
Component: RC2Jb EDC SG520 4102 2
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 00000
No fault code found.

Had the vehicle speed sensor fixed immediately after I unplugged the TCU and somehow the hesitation went away too??

Is there any possibility that the combination of a bad VSS and having the TCU still plugged in caused a hesitation at low rpms?

Hi, been browsing this thread a while and finally decided to swap a five speed into my 05 Golf with BEW and tiptronic. I think I have the cruise control wiring down, but would love to have someone double check my work before I fry my ECM or something. What I have is this:
1) red/gray wire from clutch pedal switch to TCM pin 54 (Bentley diagram 84/3), cut and joined to
2) blue/lilac wire from TCM pin 63 (dia. 82/11);
3) move blue/lilac wire from ECM pin 90 to pin 43 (dia. 81/11).

The blue/lilac wire seems to be the only wire that connects the TCM and ECM besides the two also going to the OBD port. Does that make it the one I want?

Thanks in advance!

Hello Gentlemen, Almost finished with my swap and I have relied very heavily on this thread. Thanks to Alphaseinor and everyone else who has contributed. Finally got my 02 Jetta back on the ground and tried to start her but she only runs for about a half a second then dies immediately. I swapped out the ECU with one from the manual donor as I don't yet have a VAGCOM to change the coding. TCU is unplugged. I haven't done anything with the wiring other than the switch on the clutch pedal to engage the starter. Just want to get the car back on the road for now and worry with the cruise later. I seem to remember an earlier posting from another member with this same problem but I can't find that posting now. Seems like he found his #53 relay to be bad??? Anyone know where that posting is? Much thanks in advance for any advice!

Sounds like an immobilizer issue. VAG-COM is also required to "pair" the ECU with the car.

SteelyTed said:

Finally got my 02 Jetta back on the ground and tried to start her but she only runs for about a half a second then dies immediately. I swapped out the ECU with one from the manual donor as I don't yet have a VAGCOM to change the coding.

Click to expand...

I'm no expert on ECU coding....IIRC, the swapped ECU needs to be matched to the immobilizer.

I think you need to put the original ECU back in, you'll get codes for the automatic not being there, but the car may be driiveable.

I don't doubt the experts will chime in!

Tony

Put the auto ECU back in but still have the same issue ... tries to start but just barely catches then dies. Off to work i go.