If you are considering buyback which cars are you looking at as replacements?

At lunch today I test drove a CPO '14 E350. Nice engine - solid car.

The new '17 E350's sound like they will be pretty amazing...just not the price tag. lol

bhtooefr said:

Motor Trend car of the year is kinda meaningless, they sometimes stumble on a good car, but their methodology can let them make some awful choices.

1971 Chevrolet Vega
1974 Ford Mustang II (not bad per se in light of what was available that year, but car of the year?)
1980 Chevrolet Citation
1983 AMC / Renault Alliance
1995 Chrysler Cirrus
1997 Chevrolet Malibu
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser (OK, maybe in 2001 it wasn't as terrible, but still)
2002 Ford Thunderbird

All of those are Motor Trend Car of the Year winners.

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The Vega was an epic fail, but I liked the Alliance. Avis used to rent them and I enjoyed driving them around LA with the accelerator matted.

Factory ordered a 2017 Subaru WRX CVT.....estimated earliest arrival is late December - Mid January.

I'm not worried about MPG anymore going from a 45+ MPG TDI to a 18-24 MPG WRX

AWD for a slightly safer winter + Fun Factor in the WRX = Awesomeness! haha

nattyboh2027 said:

Factory ordered a 2017 Subaru WRX CVT.....estimated earliest arrival is late December - Mid January.

I'm not worried about MPG anymore going from a 45+ MPG TDI to a 18-24 MPG WRX

AWD for a slightly safer winter + Fun Factor in the WRX = Awesomeness! haha

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Follow your heart, and enjoy your ride.
Me, I'm still deciding.

-T.

dchristi said:

The A3 etron is probably out of my price range, but thanks for the heads up - I wouldn't have stumbled across it otherwise. I don't care enough to drop more than about 20K, and really, when it comes down to it, I view transportation differently than I did, oh, 10 years ago. Yeah, priorities change.

After discussing with my dad (who has a '74 Porsche 914-6 as his "fun" car and understands the "fun" vs "great mileage" struggle I'm having better than anyone else), he actually thought I should go with the Prius...but only if I always pronounce it like Jeremy Clarkson does... PrEYEus.

It sort of surprised me, because I was sure he'd fall into the GTI camp, but maybe he knows me better than I do.

Doesn't really matter either way until VW actually sets a date. Ironically, I still have $400 of VW credit from the original "here's some cash" offer.

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You'd better hurry up and use it. Those things expire soon.

And the e-tron is a blast. Tried "Launch Control" the other day when I found a deserted straight stretch of road. Definitely fun, until I get caught.

kjclow said:

We've had this discussion many times before (not specifically chadbag). As chad points out, the credit only works if you are going to have to pay in. I've had kids in college for 8 of the last ten years and have usually received a check from Uncle Sam for most of the last 30+ years I've been doing my own taxes. So if I bought an A3 Etron, I would have to get creative with my withholding to try to take advantage of that $7000 credit. however, there is no credit in NC, so I would end up paying a chunk of that directly to the state coffers.

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I'd imagine you'd have to be pretty creative to avoid paying $4502 in taxes over the course of a year.

kjclow said:

We've had this discussion many times before (not specifically chadbag). As chad points out, the credit only works if you are going to have to pay in. I've had kids in college for 8 of the last ten years and have usually received a check from Uncle Sam for most of the last 30+ years I've been doing my own taxes. So if I bought an A3 Etron, I would have to get creative with my withholding to try to take advantage of that $7000 credit. however, there is no credit in NC, so I would end up paying a chunk of that directly to the state coffers.

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That is not what I said. The credit only works if you have a tax liability.

Say you figure out the taxes and you have a liability of $10000.

Say your withholding is $10010. That means you are credited against your liability with a credit of $10010, which shows an overpayment of $10. You get a check for $10 in the mail after you file, as a refund.

Now, say you also bought an e-tron. This has the $4502 tax credit attached to it so you can claim that credit.

Now your "credits" are $14512 ($10010 plus $4502). So your liability is covered by your credits and you have an overpayment of $4512. So you get a refund check for $4512 instead of $10.

State taxes are irrelevant so you would not have to pay more into the state because of this. And you can withhold state at a different rate than the fed if you want so IF you wanted to play with withholding (to not give a free loan to uncle sam) you could adjust your fed W4 only and leave the state one where it is at.

ETA: my understanding is that if you don't have a liability that would be covered by the e-tron credit you cannot get the extra. So if your initial liability is only $2500, you would not get the extra $2002 overage from the credit. But I am not a tax lawyer, tax accountant, CPA, or anything related so you would need to double check that and get a clarification if your overall liability, before any credits (including withholding, quarterly payments, etc) are applied.

chadbag said:

That is not what I said. The credit only works if you have a tax liability.

Say you figure out the taxes and you have a liability of $10000.

Say your withholding is $10010. That means you are credited against your liability with a credit of $10010, which shows an overpayment of $10. You get a check for $10 in the mail after you file, as a refund.

Now, say you also bought an e-tron. This has the $4502 tax credit attached to it so you can claim that credit.

Now your "credits" are $14512 ($10010 plus $4502). So your liability is covered by your credits and you have an overpayment of $4512. So you get a refund check for $4512 instead of $10.

State taxes are irrelevant so you would not have to pay more into the state because of this. And you can withhold state at a different rate than the fed if you want so IF you wanted to play with withholding (to not give a free loan to uncle sam) you could adjust your fed W4 only and leave the state one where it is at.

ETA: my understanding is that if you don't have a liability that would be covered by the e-tron credit you cannot get the extra. So if your initial liability is only $2500, you would not get the extra $2002 overage from the credit. But I am not a tax lawyer, tax accountant, CPA, or anything related so you would need to double check that and get a clarification if your overall liability, before any credits (including withholding, quarterly payments, etc) are applied.

Click to expand...

rfortson said:

And the e-tron is a blast. Tried "Launch Control" the other day when I found a deserted straight stretch of road. Definitely fun, until I get caught.

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You mean like "flashing lights and siren" got caught?

I got a ticket in my e-tron, first ticket in almost 10 years, but not because I was having fun. I was trying to safely merge into a left lane on a state highway so I could turn left at an oncoming light, and there was truck going neck and neck with me in the left lane (I was inn the right) and he had cars behind him and the intersection was coming, so I sped up for 10-20 seconds to get in front, merged over, and slowed back down. Officer got me as I sped up to be able to safely merge to the left without cutting anyone off.

I was on my way home from the DMV with my real plates for the car but they were not on the car. I had the AZ temp plate still on the car. He asked where the temp plate was from. I explained it was from Arizona but I had the real registration on the seat next to me as I was on the way home from the DMV. He also asked where I lived and I said just up the road here (I pulled over after making the left turn). Once he saw I was a local, with local registration, he wrote me up for 4 over, though he claimed to have clocked me at 16 over for the 10 seconds I was trying to move over. I was not too happy as if I am going to get a speeding ticket, at least get me when I am speeding on purpose / having fun

I'm sure someone else will tell me I'm wrong for looking at it this simplistically but from my experience in doing my own taxes, here's how it works out in the end. I make $X per year and pay taxes on a sliding basis from each check until my tax liability has been met. After Jan 1, I do my taxes for the previous year and after deductions and other included credits, I come up with an adjusted income. Looking at the tax tables (ok, it's really in the software), I get a value of tax that I owe on that adjusted income. If I paid more than that amount, I get a refund. If I paid less, I owe the fed and/or state money.

If I have a tax credit from something like an ETron. That credit is used to offset what I owe to the feds up to the amount I owe. If I owe $4600, I get a credit of $4502 and therefore only owe $98. If I owe $2, the credit is only worth $2. I will not get a refund for the remaining $4500 of the credit. The credit from something like an Etron is a line item at the very end of the form and is subtracted from the final line.

Was all into picking up a CPO 16 A6 3.0......but, took some of your advise and put together a spreadsheet comparing everything I could think of in it's similar segment...after deeply considering a Volvo s80 T6 AWD based on price alone (and passing on it as it was about as exciting as my passat) I took the morning off yesterday and wife and i went and looked at a few other things on the list. One, was a 2015 CPO Jaguar XF 3.0 AWD Sport.....

Kind of can't stop thinking about it...might just be the next car...

kjclow said:

I'm sure someone else will tell me I'm wrong for looking at it this simplistically but from my experience in doing my own taxes, here's how it works out in the end. I make $X per year and pay taxes on a sliding basis from each check until my tax liability has been met. After Jan 1, I do my taxes for the previous year and after deductions and other included credits, I come up with an adjusted income. Looking at the tax tables (ok, it's really in the software), I get a value of tax that I owe on that adjusted income. If I paid more than that amount, I get a refund. If I paid less, I owe the fed and/or state money.

If I have a tax credit from something like an ETron. That credit is used to offset what I owe to the feds up to the amount I owe. If I owe $4600, I get a credit of $4502 and therefore only owe $98. If I owe $2, the credit is only worth $2. I will not get a refund for the remaining $4500 of the credit. The credit from something like an Etron is a line item at the very end of the form and is subtracted from the final line.

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As long as your initial liability is greater than the amount of the e-tron credit, you will get back any overpayment you make after the e-tron amount is subtracted from the liability. To use my previous example.

Your liability (from the tax tables on your adjusted income) is $10000.
You had withholding of $10010.
You bought an e-tron.

The initial liability is $10k, which is greater than $4502

So the math works like this.

Initial liability of $10000
minus e-tron credit - $4502
--------------------------------
New liability of $5498
Subtract your withheld taxes of $10010

You overpaid your taxes by $4512

You get that as a refund. That is refunded money from the money you had withheld. Not the e-tron.

Now, new example.

You had a total liability of $3002.
Your withholding was $2500.
You bought an e-tron

Initial liability of $3002
minus e-tron credit - $4502
--------------------------------
New liability of $0 since the e-tron credit only covers liability and is not "refundable" (unlike some credits which are refundable)
Subtract your withheld taxes of $2500

You overpaid your taxes by $2500

You get a refund of $2500

In this case the e-tron credit was only worth $3002, not $4502, which means you lose out on $1500 in credit.

chadbag said:

You mean like "flashing lights and siren" got caught?
I got a ticket in my e-tron, first ticket in almost 10 years, but not because I was having fun. I was trying to safely merge into a left lane on a state highway so I could turn left at an oncoming light, and there was truck going neck and neck with me in the left lane (I was inn the right) and he had cars behind him and the intersection was coming, so I sped up for 10-20 seconds to get in front, merged over, and slowed back down. Officer got me as I sped up to be able to safely merge to the left without cutting anyone off.
I was on my way home from the DMV with my real plates for the car but they were not on the car. I had the AZ temp plate still on the car. He asked where the temp plate was from. I explained it was from Arizona but I had the real registration on the seat next to me as I was on the way home from the DMV. He also asked where I lived and I said just up the road here (I pulled over after making the left turn). Once he saw I was a local, with local registration, he wrote me up for 4 over, though he claimed to have clocked me at 16 over for the 10 seconds I was trying to move over. I was not too happy as if I am going to get a speeding ticket, at least get me when I am speeding on purpose / having fun

Click to expand...

Not yet, thankfully. And to be honest, I've only done it once, and only sped a few other times. Usually, I'm driving it for mileage but occasionally I like to remind myself of why I paid a little more. BTW, as part of the Launch Control setup, you turn off ESC. Doing so will give you a nice little squeal when you hit it.

And that sucks about your ticket, even if he "did you a favor". If I'm going to get a ticket, I at least want it to be for something fun.

nattyboh2027 said:

Factory ordered a 2017 Subaru WRX CVT.....estimated earliest arrival is late December - Mid January.

I'm not worried about MPG anymore going from a 45+ MPG TDI to a 18-24 MPG WRX

AWD for a slightly safer winter + Fun Factor in the WRX = Awesomeness! haha

Click to expand...

The WRX is the one that goes like a rocket, right?

rfortson said:

Not yet, thankfully. And to be honest, I've only done it once, and only sped a few other times. Usually, I'm driving it for mileage but occasionally I like to remind myself of why I paid a little more. BTW, as part of the Launch Control setup, you turn off ESC. Doing so will give you a nice little squeal when you hit it.

And that sucks about your ticket, even if he "did you a favor". If I'm going to get a ticket, I at least want it to be for something fun.

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Most jurisdictions will allow you to take a safe drive course and present the completion certificate to the judge. You'll be out the cost of the course and court costs but you won't have a speeding ticket recorded against your driving record - or pay the penalty on your insurance premiums.

When I saw what the buyback offer was on my TDI I almost immediately decided to take it as it was only a couple thousand less than what I paid for the car 6 years ago. The problem was that I really didn't want to spend more than the buyback amount on a replacement. My hope was to find something that was at least as fuel efficient as the TDI and also fun to drive around town.

I test drove the new Civic, Accord, Golf, GTI, Sonata, Optima and Mazda 6. I liked many of them but my driving patterns are almost exclusively in-town within 20 miles or so from home. That got me thinking about some kind of electric vehicle. I knew I didn't want a Leaf but I remembered the Volt. I was mildly interested in it back in 2011 when I got the TDI but it was outside my budget even with the tax credit. I decided to re-visit it and see what it was about. I went and drove a new 2017 LT. I really liked the low-end power that the electric motor provided. It's genuinely fun to drive around town. While the 2017 was sure nice, it once again would be "over budget". That got me thinking about used. What I found was that a 2014-2015 Volt with under 30k miles could be had for 14-17k depending on trim level. This is definitely a case where depreciation is your friend! The warranty on the car is 5/60 for the gas power-train and 8/100 for the electric components, meaning I'd have a good chunk of warranty left if needed. Well, after lots of research and checking/double-checking the budget I decided to get a used 2014 with 21k miles. I got it for $16,000 so after the buyback I'll have $5,000 "extra". I pick the car up next week and am looking forward to driving it around town powered by nothing but electrons!

HBarlow said:

Most jurisdictions will allow you to take a safe drive course and present the completion certificate to the judge. You'll be out the cost of the course and court costs but you won't have a speeding ticket recorded against your driving record - or pay the penalty on your insurance premiums.

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Already scheduled for the "driving school" class as they call it.

rfortson said:

Not yet, thankfully. And to be honest, I've only done it once, and only sped a few other times. Usually, I'm driving it for mileage

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Yeah. I am 50 now and tend to drive conservatively. I still will drive "aggressively" if I need to but I try to dial down the stress and leave enough time to get there at the speed limit. When I was younger I was a bit more aggressive in my driving. Even then, this is only my 4th speeding ticket since I got my license in 1984 (1985, 1989, 2007, 2016). With the e-tron I tend to drive for mileage and battery life. With other cars I try and drive a bit more conservatively now.

It cracks me up when I see some TDI owners, who loved the power and fuel mileage of their vehicle, go in a totally different direction with an SUV or truck, that will likely get only 1/4 to 1/3 the fuel mileage Even if you stick with a diesel, the mileage will still suck. I get it that fuel prices are low, but since everyone is saying we're drowning in oil, all it takes is one shock to stir things up, and next thing you know, we're staring at $4+/gallon fuel prices again. Since SUV's and trucks are popular now because of low fuel prices, their values are high. But when fuel goes up, their values will plummet when everyone wants to get out of them into more fuel efficient vehicles. There are great deals to be had on hybrids and electric vehicles now, which will become more valuable when fuel prices return to their highs.

Mazda CX 5 diesel anyone? I am gonna look at it when it comes out.

HBarlow said:

The WRX is the one that goes like a rocket, right?

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The WRX is the "fast car", yes. I still think the Autobahn's test drive was much more impressive than the WRX, but maybe because I didn't have a crazy saleskid trying to kill me at the Subaru dealership. haha
From my experience, the Subaru models are kinda like:
Impreza = base model, cheaper, and popular with people who like to mod their rides.
Legacy = sensible sedan / station wagon. L for Legroom.
WRX = gottagoFAST.
I won't go into the Crosstrek / Outback / Forester segment as I am less familiar with crossover / SUV products in general.

-T.

Tenebrae said:

Legacy = sensible sedan / station wagon. L for Legroom.
WRX = gottagoFAST.

-T.

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Unfortunately Subie stopped selling real wagons in the US years ago.

bglf83 said:

Mazda CX 5 diesel anyone? I am gonna look at it when it comes out.

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I think it will be a very appealing vehicle - hope the price will still be affordable! Plus it appears you'll have to wait at least a year before it's on the market. Let's hope they're not releasing a speculative announcement due to the coming Chevy Equinox diesel, only to delay multiple times as they have in the past.

PacCoastFwy923 said:

Unfortunately Subie stopped selling real wagons in the US years ago.

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Apologies. I stand corrected. I was reminiscing about my old Subaru Legacy L wagon, from before the Outback "light truck" scandal.
Apparently Subaru started raising the clearance on their wagons so they could be classified as a "light truck" and thus fall into a lower expected MPG category. I was pretty ticked off at the time.
This was probably about 10 years ago or so.

-T.

derekmw said:

The new '17 E350's sound like they will be pretty amazing...just not the price tag. lol

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No such thing.

They are taking the dog turbo 4 from the C300 and making an E300. Then they will have an E43 with same engine as the C43, and E63 with same engine as C63.

Got that?

jhinsc said:

It cracks me up when I see some TDI owners, who loved the power and fuel mileage of their vehicle, go in a totally different direction with an SUV or truck,

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I really liked that my JSW got great mileage, seated four comfortably, hauled a good amount of cargo, and could even tow a fair bit if necessary. I'm a (dormant, until I build a shop again--hopefully in the next year) woodworker, so will need to haul lumber, sheet goods, and even the occasional machine tool. My first thought, when I found out about the buyback, was to replace it with the closest thing I could find, which is a used 328d wagon. Ticks all the same boxes, with a little less cargo space (at least by the numbers--haven't found one to check out in real life), performs better, gets better mileage, costs twice as much. Hmmm...

I then started looking at diesel SUVs. I could get a similar vintage ML350 diesel for less than the BMW, carry more, tow lots more, have gobs of torque, and still be close to 30 mpg highway.

Then I bought the A3, kind of on a whim, and kind of because my JSW got wrecked. I'm now thinking toward keeping it for a bit (maybe sell it back in two years, or maybe get it fixed and keep it longer), and getting a "beater" truck for when I need to haul things. Probably wouldn't be a true beater, but something about 10 years old, doesn't have to be too fancy, but would have all the room I'd need to haul whatever I'd need to do. A diesel would be nice, but "light" truck diesels have only been out a few years (and thus are much more than I want to spend), and the Cummins/PowerStroke/DuraMax is getting to be way more truck than I'd need. I saw an ad a couple of weeks ago for a 2006 F150, V6, long bed, 130k miles, for $5k--something like that would do nicely.

jhinsc said:

It cracks me up when I see some TDI owners, who loved the power and fuel mileage of their vehicle, go in a totally different direction with an SUV or truck, that will likely get only 1/4 to 1/3 the fuel mileage Even if you stick with a diesel, the mileage will still suck. I get it that fuel prices are low, but since everyone is saying we're drowning in oil, all it takes is one shock to stir things up, and next thing you know, we're staring at $4+/gallon fuel prices again. Since SUV's and trucks are popular now because of low fuel prices, their values are high. But when fuel goes up, their values will plummet when everyone wants to get out of them into more fuel efficient vehicles. There are great deals to be had on hybrids and electric vehicles now, which will become more valuable when fuel prices return to their highs.

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My thoughts exactly. Which is why I have only been looking at plug in hybrids. In my case, I have solar at home and this car is my wife's who doesn't drive more than 20 miles on average. I like the prospect of possibly filling the tank once a year. Only problem is I'm not very happy with any of the PHEV's.
Volt - rear seating is really just for 2 people.
Sonata - good seating room, but trunk is almost non-existent
A3 e-tron - we have the A3 now and have not liked how small the car is
Ford - wife says no way she will drive a Ford. lol
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV - seems like a great car but keeps delaying - summer of 2017 now
BMW 330e - wife wants this but it doesn't qualify for HOV stickers or the $1500 state rebate here in CA. Not a deal breaker but also dealerships no longer have 2016's left in stock and aren't really giving good deals on the 2017 right now (most quoted me $3-400 lease and $4000+ down...yeah no)


So I'm a bit stuck. I really want a PHEV but not finding what I want.

Check the Prius Prime, which is just coming out now. Cargo room is constrained relative to the regular Prius, though.

If you want tons of cargo/passenger room, there's the Pacifica Hybrid, with no impact to cargo or passenger space (although you lose second row Stow-N-Go). But, that's a minivan, and it's from FCA.

If you can live with a CVT transmission, and no sunroof, a Prius-V is surprisingly big inside and pretty good on gas. I took a long look at one last week at the car show, and this comes from a Prius hater