Buyback Denied! Vehicle Damage From Auto Accident (Still Operable)

OmniGLH

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If people didn't try gaming the system things would work out much better. Thank those who have tried, for the current state of affairs.
IMO - this, exactly.

I think the parties involved failed to account for the stereotypical internet VW idiot... flatbrim dumbass trying to scam his way and just be a punk in general by turning in a car with no doors, seats, etc. for internet notoriety and clicks on his twitspace feed.

A handful of those, and now you get the knee-jerk reaction that will likely trap more innocent, well-intentioned people who have only acted in good faith into situations like this.

I think we're now seeing a case of "spirit of the law" vs. "letter of the law" - the "spirit", I'm sure, was that cars be turned in, in good shape, in generally the same condition that the owners used them on a daily basis... such that, likely, they could be repaired and resold - even tho the "letter" merely states "operable".

What will be enforced in the courts is the "letter" of the law, and that's why we're starting to see/hear about these new minimum requirements trickling out at various dealers.
 

Rico567

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If people didn't try gaming the system things would work out much better. Thank those who have tried, for the current state of affairs.
"Gaming the system" is a jewel with many facets, or, some might say, a turd with many odors. Some of us might consider people buying up multiple Dieselgatemobiles to sell for the buyback as gaming the system. Others might consider ripping out the seats gaming the system. And others may differ. This is where the lawyers come in, and we may hope to hear some further clarification on this matter— and soon.
NB: Major Digression Follows, please do not read and then tell me I'm "off topic."
If one wishes to see "gaming the system / rules," one need look no further than competitive pistol shooting. The sport of IDPA shooting (International Defensive Pistol Association) was specifically invented because IPSC matches (International Practical Shooting Confederation) had become as much a matter of gaming the system as anything having to do with shooting.
IDPA introduced a match penalty entitled "Failure To Do Right," which is imposed at the discretion of the range officers / judges. Getting this penalty levied against one is tantamount to losing a match....but of course it relies on the presumption of incorruptible judges.
In the case of the VW settlement, unless the court steps in and mediates, to more specifically define what "operable condition" means, matters will drift to greater extremes. Will Judge Breyer further define it? Hard to say. From what he has stated so far, I don't think his judgement would be what many people would want to hear. OTOH, he's got to be careful not to drive so many people out of the buyback into the fix or just walking away that VW can't meet their 85%.......
 

quattroginger

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technically though..................had vw not killed the resale of his car, and the accident still happened, the car could of been fixed and not claimed a total loss (possibly). i flipped my passat in Oct. 6900 in damage. could of kept driving it but embrassesing to drive into government building every day. insurance fixed and i turned in at my scheduled date.

jack the car up on blocks, put in drive with hood popped and stick garden hose. wont take to long to hit 10 miles lol
 
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swampyankee

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"Gaming the system" is a jewel with many facets, or, some might say, a turd with many odors. Some of us might consider people buying up multiple Dieselgatemobiles to sell for the buyback as gaming the system. Others might consider ripping out the seats gaming the system. And others may differ. This is where the lawyers come in, and we may hope to hear some further clarification on this matter— and soon.
NB: Major Digression Follows, please do not read and then tell me I'm "off topic."
If one wishes to see "gaming the system / rules," one need look no further than competitive pistol shooting. The sport of IDPA shooting (International Defensive Pistol Association) was specifically invented because IPSC matches (International Practical Shooting Confederation) had become as much a matter of gaming the system as anything having to do with shooting.
IDPA introduced a match penalty entitled "Failure To Do Right," which is imposed at the discretion of the range officers / judges. Getting this penalty levied against one is tantamount to losing a match....but of course it relies on the presumption of incorruptible judges.
In the case of the VW settlement, unless the court steps in and mediates, to more specifically define what "operable condition" means, matters will drift to greater extremes. Will Judge Breyer further define it? Hard to say. From what he has stated so far, I don't think his judgement would be what many people would want to hear. OTOH, he's got to be careful not to drive so many people out of the buyback into the fix or just walking away that VW can't meet their 85%.......
VW et al didn't take into account the possibility of those who "game the system".... however, once the settlement was announced there appeared many threads on stripping, returning totaled cars, etc.....

Seems to me the greed of others early in the process ruined it for everybody else. One of the reasons I elected to sell back right away.....

For the OP- one of the risks of not taking the buyback is exactly what happened to you. Driving the car was a calculated risk. Another reason I turned it in was the risk of the car being totaled in an accident. Had I chosen to drive the car for two years and turn it in at the end of the period, and the car was totaled along the way, I would put my big boy pants on and accept the outcome.
 

LeahPharmD

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I can get the car road legal- but why should I waste that money if VW is just going to crush the car anyway? And who's to say if I don't spend my money and get it road legal then they will turn around and change the rules again on me?
 

k1xv

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I can get the car road legal- but why should I waste that money if VW is just going to crush the car anyway? And who's to say if I don't spend my money and get it road legal then they will turn around and change the rules again on me?
Why should they buy back a car to take off the road if that car would blow up anyway if driven 10 miles?

The settlement is to get roadworthy cars off the road or fixed. Your accident has already taken your car "off the road", and if you want to be paid to let VW take it off the road, you have to do a sufficient repair to make it a car that will not self destruct if driven 10 miles.
 

Mike_04GolfTDI

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Do they just want to see another 10 miles on the odometer?

Just take it back home, put the front up on jack stands, and run the miles up. Maybe feed water in with a garden hose to keep it cool? (Depending how bad the radiator leak is, maybe you can just keep it topped up while running the engine).

Then, take it back to the dealer and show them that you drove 10 miles.
 

LeahPharmD

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yeah, that's the problem, they change the rules daily, and don't make them public so we don't know what the rules really are! When I got in my accident 12/12/16 I didn't let the insurance company "buy " it from me because by a strict reading of the rules I would be out the restitution $$.. now I'm in this pickle---
 

swampyankee

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I can get the car road legal- but why should I waste that money if VW is just going to crush the car anyway? And who's to say if I don't spend my money and get it road legal then they will turn around and change the rules again on me?
accept the consequences and move on. life sucks sometimes
 

shak911

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Just drive the car around the corner, jack up the 2 front wheels, let it run (in drive) while you sit back and listen to music or surf the net for few minutes, it should work..
 

pikawel

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The undocumented rule changes are outrageous regardless the stipulations that led to their creation. End of story. I understand if, at a future court date, roadworthiness is added as a new criterion. In the meantime playing jazz with the acceptance criteria is wrong.

Vehicle stripping has had a judge's comment which is more than can be said for this 10 mile ask.
 

LeahPharmD

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I agree 100%--- I just don't want to get trapped in a situation where I keep chasing my tail trying to meet their changing requirements and get stuck with a car I can't do anything with
 

k1xv

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This is what is commonly referred to as "is the glass half empty, or is it half full?

Your car gets into an accident, and insurance total it. Payday #1 The car is still driveable, except the cooling system is leaking, so it really cannot be used as a roadworthy car as is.

You get the opportunity to sell back to VW at a price way above market value. Payday $2. But the agent, seeing coolant leaking from your car, wants you to drive it 10 miles, to verify it is a roadworthy car. You admit, it isn't in its present condition.

Seems to me that you are getting two generous payments for one car. But to qualify for the second one, from VW, you have to have someone repair it adequately so it doesn't leak coolant, and could be driven 10 miles, a relatively short distance.

An independent mechanic who understands that you only need enough of a repair to turn it in should be able to get you set with junkyard parts in as is condition. What could it cost you to do this? $500? Maybe less?

Maybe it would make you feel better if you thought of your payment from the insurance company, a "bonus" in my opinion, as diminished by the cost of the temporary repair.

You should be enjoying your windfall situation. Your glass is 90% full. But you keep worrying about the 10% that is empty.

You will ultimately walk away with far more total money than the typical sell back owner, whose car was not in an accident.

And if you think this is an arbitrary application of rules, well, consider it a life lesson. Where rules are involved, they can seem arbitrary, but if you want to play the game, you have to follow the rules.
 

GoFaster

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The undocumented rule changes are outrageous regardless the stipulations that led to their creation. End of story. I understand if, at a future court date, roadworthiness is added as a new criterion. In the meantime playing jazz with the acceptance criteria is wrong.

Vehicle stripping has had a judge's comment which is more than can be said for this 10 mile ask.
I agree 100%--- I just don't want to get trapped in a situation where I keep chasing my tail trying to meet their changing requirements and get stuck with a car I can't do anything with
And if you have a functional and useable and daily-driveable TDI that is in a condition such that it isn't attracting the attention of a police officer intent on pulling your plates for driving an unsafe vehicle ... you have nothing to worry about. And that is the sort of vehicle that the buyback was MEANT to be taking off the roads.

For those attempting to profit from VW's predicament by buying and then attempting to get VW to buy back vehicles that otherwise wouldn't be on the road ... you took the risk, I got no problem with you taking your lumps for it.

I do sympathise with those who legitimately were involved in a collision in which the insurance company wants to pay less for the vehicle than what the (at times already-scheduled) buyback would have been. But your beef should be with the insurance company, not with VW.
 

LeahPharmD

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The insurance company was never going to give us the restitution amount- that would be crazy to expect them too. And a strict reading of the agreement would lead one to assume that if I "sold" my car to the insurance company after the seller registration window , I wouldn't get the restitution. That is why I kept the car.

And at this point, I'm trying to get the most money out of the situation I can. Which is what you are supposed to do right? In order to be a good American Capitalist?

And then I'm going to pay off my student loans and ride the bus to work. I'm sick of cars.
 

DanB36

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And a strict reading of the agreement would lead one to assume that if I "sold" my car to the insurance company after the seller registration window , I wouldn't get the restitution.
A strict and complete reading of the settlements would lead you to believe no such thing, as that situation is specifically contemplated, and specifically addressed. In that case, your insurance would pay you their value (which you can negotiate with them), and VW would pay you the restitution.
 

k1xv

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You can be as greedy as you want. But that is not what made America great.

And it does not mean that the world must turn itself inside out to meet your expectations.
 

LeahPharmD

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A strict and complete reading of the settlements would lead you to believe no such thing, as that situation is specifically contemplated, and specifically addressed. In that case, your insurance would pay you their value (which you can negotiate with them), and VW would pay you the restitution.
Where? I only see it say if the car became "inoperable". And we are now back to the unclear definition of "operable" in the court documents. I went and visited my car, and it is operable. So here we are again.
 

DanB36

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Where? I only see it say if the car became "inoperable".
Page 17 of the Class Action Settlement Agreement:
Any owner whose Eligible Vehicle was totaled and who consequently transferred title of his, her, or its vehicle to an insurance company on or after the Opt-Out Deadline, but before the end of the Claim Period, will be entitled to Owner Restitution but not a Buyback payment.
 

LeahPharmD

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Darn it! My insurance and the buyback amount from VW was only about a grand off...
Welp, I'm too deep in the game now, guess all I can do at this point is keep playing my best hand and praying on what the agreed upon definition of operable is during the astrological alignment of the stars at the exact time of my buyback appointment.....
 

halbert

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Bottom line is this: VW has not yet figured out what to do for owners who had vehicles damaged during the claims process. My case is similar, but has been going on a LOT longer. Damaged (rear end) November 25. Had TWO appointments made and cancelled. Now in the hands of the "Resolution Team", that you cannot contact directly. The wrinkle for me is that insurance offered two payouts, and if I wanted to keep possession I had to take the lower payout (about 40%) AND get a salvage title--called a "certificate of salvage" in Pennsylvania. All was done by mid December, based on a WRITTEN confirmation that operable meant "starts and moves under it's own power". Now, I'm in step 14 limbo because the front page of my title document says "certificate of salvage". At least that's what appears to be. I'm told by the claims operator that "my case is under review". No time limits, no communication, no nothing about what, if anything, I can do.

I also called class counsel, and they told me to fix it and make it road worthy. But then I'd have to get a rebuilt title. Which would probably knock it out too.
 

Rico567

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The business of damaged cars seems to be moving in the direction that more are being questioned, with some rejected, but many still making it through the process. A week ago, I attended our son's buyback at Village VW in Chattanooga, which went very smoothly (took about 15 min.), but the buyback rep stated that "VW might come back on you for repairs later." The statement was completely gratuitous on the face of it, because they signed the papers agreeing to the full payout. The car had been in an accident last July that ruined both passenger side doors, but was otherwise fine. And he collected the insurance payout for the accident, and his EFT payment was made right on schedule last week.
On the one hand, this seems to be partly a function of things the buyback reps dream up or have interpreted. My guess is that someone up the ladder in VW didn't like the reports on the numbers of damaged cars being turned in, put something in a memo, and it's being implemented in various ways by individuals, whether that was the intention or not.
 

LeahPharmD

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Halbert, Class Council told me the same thing. But due to what I was hearing here, I didn't. I called class council and asked them to find out why my application was being held up. They then called someone and it was miraculously done the next day (with salvage title). I then did my buyback Wednesday and they just made me drive it around the lot. Good luck- hang in there
 

740GLE

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I dont feel that the vehicle would be safe to drive 10 miles given its current condition but it is "operable" and arrived under its own power.

This makes me sick!

I saw some buy backs that had nasty front end damage but mostly hood damage and plastic bits. But if you don't feel safe driving it 10 miles, admit you missed the boat double dipping the system.
 

ujames

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Halbert, Class Council told me the same thing. But due to what I was hearing here, I didn't. I called class council and asked them to find out why my application was being held up. They then called someone and it was miraculously done the next day (with salvage title). I then did my buyback Wednesday and they just made me drive it around the lot. Good luck- hang in there
Congrats. Can you provide the timeline for doc approved, offer validated, etc?
 

Rico567

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<snip>They then called someone and it was miraculously done the next day (with salvage title).<snip>
A "miracle" had nothing to do with it. This is why advice has been given repeatedly in case of hangups to call the class counsel. They call the relevant person on the VW side and demand a reason relative to the settlement why the process isn't going forward. If someone can't give one, or say "Oops, we'll get right on that," then it's assumed counsel will go straight to the court. It's one of the things that lawyers do.*

{OT comment follows; please do not read further and then complain about it to me.}

*NB: I would hope no one misconstrues anything I said above to mean that one should run to a lawyer any time something goes awry. In fact, I believe the opposite: lawyers, like doctors, are best avoided unless something falls within their purview that one is incompetent to perform. But, again with both, when you need 'em, that's that. We're closing on a house in a week, and you can bet our attorney will be present.
 

halbert

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Rico, calling class counsel again is my next move. It really appears that the call center is making things up as they go along, so they get their daily quota of calls in.
 

LeahPharmD

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Congrats. Can you provide the timeline for doc approved, offer validated, etc?
Initial offer letter 12/9/16
Car accident 12/12/16
Failed buyback apt 1/26/17 (title now branded was reason)

Uploaded documents complete 2/7/17
Offer package complete 3/7/17
Offer letter submission/approval 3/15/17
Buyback date 4/19/17
Chase e-transfer 4/21/17
Money in bank 4/24/17
 

halbert

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Ok, so I emailed Max at class counsel (he and I have emailed several times over the last few months), told him the latest. He suggested I upload the front of the salvage certificate AGAIN (this makes 4th time), along with a copy of the original bill of sale (why did I keep it?). It is now "pending review" status. At least it wasn't rejected out of hand.

Current timeline:

Started process up to Step 4: September last year
Moved from Illinois to PA and retitled: October 2016
Accident: Nov 25, 2016
First Submission and offer letter: December 23, 2016
First Appointment: Feb 4, 2017 (cancelled 2 hrs before appt)
Second Appointment: March 11, 2017 (cancelled day before)
Reset back to Step 5: March 13, 2017
Submitted Salvage Title: March 15, 2015, April 4, 2017, April 11, 2017, April 27, 2017.
Waiting for new offer.
Won't believe they are actually going to act until the money is in the bank.
 
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