Diesel Cruz slated for 2013

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
What does it get with a manual transmission?
5.6 l/100km with the manual (now a 6-speed, used to have a in the European cycle)
Jetta 2.0 TDI manual gets 4.8 l/100km.

I very much doubt it will happen. Reason being is simple: it'll cost too much and won't have enough improvement over the direct-injected turbo gas engines they already have.
The turbo gas 1.4 in the Cruze isn't direct injected.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
GM has had direct-injected turbo gas engines in this country for several years now. They probably don't have them in Europe because (of course) they have diesels.

I did not necessarily mean all of those things together, merely the technology in general in gas engines largely afforded by light-pressure turbocharging, direct injection, variable valving, etc. has made them much more efficient in recent years.

The Cruze ECO already gets 40+ MPGs, and when the 2012 models go on sale later this year, they will be knocking on 45+.

(they had all the next gen ECOtec engine cutaways at the NAIAS, they were all DI).
 
Last edited:

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
GM has had direct-injected turbo gas engines in this country for several years now. They probably don't have them in Europe because (of course) they have diesels.
My point was that the 1.4 turbo in the Cruze isn't DI. The same engine can be had in the Opel Astra and Meriva in Europe, but not in the Cruze.
The advantages of downsized turbo gas engines seem to be in situations when they are running low boost (for example when doing the EPA or the European fuel economy cycle). In other situations (for example driving in the real world) advantages compared to larger-displacement NA gassers disappear.
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Yes, and WE (read NOT Europe) will have a high-MPG version that most certainly IS direct-injected. The USA is not Europe. We also have 400+hp Silverados, too. :cool:

This is all old news, too, as it kinda got slowed down due to GM's bankruptcy. It was to be by 2010 all the ECOtec family of engines was to be DI, but they did not have the money to put it all in place, so they are about 3+ years behind schedule.

There was a great article in the GM magazine we get here (you would not get it, again, it is a USA thing) about the new family of engines and global platforms. Of course, Pontiac was also mentioned in that article (again, a USA thing) so it goes to show you how times have changed.
 
Last edited:

Chris B

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2001
Location
N. central Illinois
TDI
2002 Jetta Wagon 5 spd
Typical. No profit in it.

Much more profit to be made on bloated, 3 ton $50K diesel pickups so that urban cowboys can drive them around like passenger cars. This is what sucks about the US.
No profit and huge warranty cost potential. As much as I love my TDI, when it comes time to replace it, I really will have to think hard about buying another diesel. The insane emissions regs have made the current crop of diesels complex and expensive beyond any benefit, short or long term. The ALH TDI's had it easy - just an intake that clogs up. The VW CR engines are basically an emissions system that provides power to the wheels as a byproduct.

Maybe the technology will further improve - I remember when gassers were a maze of vacuum lines, electronic carburetors, and poor performance. But I look under the hood of our '10 Outback and it's a clean, simple installation and 2.5L puts out 170hp and 32 mpg on the highway with the CVT in an all-wheel drive car that dwarfs my Jetta wagon.

The other thing is most Americans do NOT maintain their vehicles and then only when something breaks. That sort of maintenance and oil changes at Bubba's Lube Palace will once again give diesels the black eye when the owner is facing big repair bills regardless if it's their fault or not.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
It's not all doom and gloom, though. I think they are just going through some teething issues with some things. Of the several regulars I have here with 2009+ TDIs, only a couple minor issues have come up, all of which have been corrected with software under warranty.

People forget about all the stupid early crap problems every generation of TDI had here...and until now those were all cars that had some sort of track record already established in Europe. We got the CR engine the same time they did.

I know they needn't meet the same passenger car emissions requirements, but all the CR Sprinters we service have not had much troubles either. Most all the 3.0L V6 CDIs got software updates for EGR issues, and I just had my very first one that I needed to do a manual DPF regen on... at 190k miles... and I was able to get it back into operation again. Good thing, too, because list price on the DPF is $3900. :eek: But I gotta tell ya, these CDI Sprinters are quiet, clean (you can white-glove the tail pipe), and WAY more frugal than anything comparable with a gas engine, and they run surprisingly well. When you drive one, it is hard to believe there is only a 3-liter engine moving the big box down the road, through a slushbox no less! :)
 

euromade

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2006
Location
MI, USA
TDI
Back to the gasser world
That's interesting, VM Motori also manufactured a diesel engine for Jeep Liberty (Cherokee in EU). The engine was great but the transmission was nothing but the trouble.
In the European cycle, a diesel Cruze with the 6-speed Auto gets 6.6 l/100km (36 mpg). The engine is brand-new and just replaced an older diesel. The older one was widely regarded as very unrefined, reviews about the new one aren't in yet.
In the same European rating a Jetta with DSG is rated at 5.3 l/100km (44 mpg). So that's about the difference between a Jetta and a Cruze.
0-100 kph is 9.4s for the Cruze, 9.5s for the Jetta. (The Cruze has 163hp, the Jetta 140 - the weight difference kills the power advantage)

The engine in the diesel Cruze is an updated version of this:
http://www.vmmotori.it/en/01/00/01/dettaglio.jsp?id=8
 

German_1er_diesel

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Location
Ratzeburg
TDI
BMW 118d
That's interesting, VM Motori also manufactured a diesel engine for Jeep Liberty (Cherokee in EU). The engine was great but the transmission was nothing but the trouble.
If you look at today's European Jeep lineup, VM Motori powers the Wrangler (2.8 I4, 200hp, 6-speed manual or 5-speed auto), Cherokee/Liberty (same) and Grand Cherokee (3.0V6/5-speed auto), while the Compass gets a Mercedes OM651 (manual transmission only).
 

Tiberian

Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Location
Irving, Tx
TDI
2011 Jetta SEL and 2010 JSW
This bad news, now that I think about it. The GM motor will be a POS and ruin the reputation of diesel cars again...
Just keep in mind what happened when GM came out with their first diesel truck. POS motor with no power even when compared to Dodge & Ford at the time.

They will have to Americanize the European Cruz diesel which will cause problems for the first year or so.

Compare to Ford who has had basically the same diesel motor in their trucks ever since I can remember. Even before Navistar and Ford started fighting they messed up the same motor every time they did a new release. It's so bad now that the current Power Stroke might as well be a gas truck when it comes to MPG.
 

Marley

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 14, 2007
Location
TN
TDI
none
I hope it works well and they offer it in their lowest trim level.
 

Pat Dolan

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2002
Location
Martensville, SK
TDI
2003 A4 Variant, 2015 Q7
Everyone seems to like to dump on Government Motors, but to be fair, there were three big reasons the 5.7 was a flop: GM had been a top innovator for decades, but nobody told the engineering guys to stop in the '70s - and once the head gasket sealing was sorted out, it was a very good engine (don't forget WE had similar problems with small diameter bolts on 1.5s and especially 2.4s); decisions were being made by financiers by then, not engineers (thus time to release) and lastly, GM sold to a very different demographic that would tolerate something with `peculiarities` that loyal (in those days) VW buyers would accept. Then again, we seem to tolerate PD cam issues and CRD total fuel system replacements from time to time.

re diesels: the 6.2 & 6.5 were also great engines once the main bearing web cracking was addressed, and the D-Max is arguably now (common rail days) the pick of the litter of big 3 pickup diesels.

re gassers: the LSx series are undeniably the highwater mark in pushrod anything, and the direct injection 3.6s found in CTS and now the new Camaro can go toe to toe with Porsche for technology and specific output.
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
Just keep in mind what happened when GM came out with their first diesel truck. POS motor with no power even when compared to Dodge & Ford at the time.
The Detroit Diesel LH6 and LL4 (6.2 liter non-turbo) engine was from the 70s through early 80s in GMC and Chevrolet trucks. It got better fuel economy than even the V-6 gasoline engine, and this was at a time when the market was not focused on power.

The successor 6.5 engine (most were turbo, but some non-turbo) were never intended to be a power competitor with Ford Navistar or Dodge Cummins engines. The 6.5 was durable, made decent power, decent fuel economy, and met emissions for half-ton trucks. It was mostly a substitute for the gasoline 350 V-8 engine for people that wanted a workhorse engine with better fuel economy.

Remember that the first diesel engine in the Dodge D Series pickup was a wimpy Mitsubishi I-6 non-turbo engine making 105hp and 169 lb·ft @ 2200 rpm.

Also, the first International Harvester engine in Ford pickups was the 6.9 V-8 IDI non-turbo engine making 170hp.

You single Chevy out for "bad" diesel engines but conveniently forget that they were pretty decent engines for the time they were built, and they had competitors that weren't all that great either.
 

MrMopar

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 1, 2003
Location
Bloomington, IL
TDI
none
All this stuff about the potential for a diesel Cruze is nice, but how about seeing if GM spreads that engine lineup to the bulk of their passenger care lineup (Malibu, Impala).
 

NYTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2001
Location
Mid - Hudson
TDI
1999.5 Golf TDI AUTOMATIC trans. GLS w/PLX package silver/black cloth
Ok, seems the Cruze diesel is coming .....
too bad GM is not bringing the Cruze 5 door in any form (AFAIK).
Bring the 5 door Cruze in a diesel and I actually would set foot in a GM dealership for the first time since about 1997.
 

tdisky

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2004
Location
Middletown, Rhode Island
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL (hers)
Yes, and hatchback Cruzes are offered in Europe. The current issue of Diesel Car magazine had a review of it, and it seems pretty good considering.

I really like the looks of the hatch; much better than most of the sedans out there. Case in point: Nissan Versa (hatch kinda cute, sedan dorky), Mazda 3, Ford Fiesta and Ford Focus. The latter's not bad in a sedan, but the hatch is still way better looking.

I was hearing somewhere that the older you are, the longer your trunk is. Look at the demographics for say, the Lincoln Towncar.
 
Top