Who makes Group 4 507 Spec oils, 0W-30 or 5w-30 oil?

turbobrick240 said:

It's confusing, but the AEL does have 507 approval. You can contact Amsoil and ask them if in doubt.

https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-prod...ropean-car-formula-5w-30-synthetic-motor-oil/

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Correct and I agree about the confusion on the part of Amsoil. This as been discussed before and the consensus was that indeed the Amsoil AEL is certified by VW as a 507 engine oil.

tikal said:

Correct and I agree about the confusion on the part of Amsoil. This as been discussed before and the consensus was that indeed the Amsoil AEL is certified by VW as a 507 engine oil.

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I don't agree. If they actually have the approval, why do they asterisk the word Approval and include this statement in tiny print at the bottom of the spec sheet? AMSOIL products are formulated to meet or exceed the performance requirements set forth by the manufacturers of all applications shown/listed here.

The words formulated to meet or exceed are their code for "we made it so it will meet the approval standards, but we don't have the actual approval." They've been using that line for years.

I am sure, if needed, Amsoil will send you a letter showing that their AEL oil is certified by VW as 504/507.

tikal said:

I am sure, if needed, Amsoil will send you a letter showing that their AEL oil is certified by VW as 504/507.

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Sure, go ahead and get it.

They also claim 229.51 - don't see them here:
https://bevo.mercedes-benz.com/bevolisten/229.51_en.html

The "meets or exceeds" game is the way out of these things. The key word is "OR", in which case it ALWAYS will EXCEED the spec, because there is no such thing. The spec is the spec. Period.

Like saying it calls for 20 minutes at 450 F in an oven to bake a pizza. Well, 500 F will exceed that, right? So why not just bake it for 15 minutes at 500 F? Because that is NOT what the recipe or specification calls for.

The lawyers must have invented that phrase, because it gets plastered on a lot of things.

Here's VW's TSB with all oils that meet their approvals. This is from June of last year. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2019/MC-10161673-0001.pdf

Amsoil only appears once: European Car Formula 5W40 Improved ESP shows 502/505 approvals. That's the only one I found.

tikal said:

Yes I agree about skepticism with certain smaller engine oil blenders such as Amsoil, Schaeffer Oil, Renewable Lubricants, etc.

For the Amsoil VW 507 certified/approved oil (AEL) the Noack value is pretty good for what it is worth:

Noack Volatility, % weight loss (ASTM D5800) 7.1%

Probably comparable to the Noack of Mobile 1 ESP and Castrol Edge Professional LL03 (as examples).

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That is a good Noack number. I may have been wrong about it being mostly group iii+. It's definitely a very good oil, I just don't think I could justify the $14/qt price.

IndigoBlueWagon said:

I don't agree. If they actually have the approval, why do they asterisk the word Approval and include this statement in tiny print at the bottom of the spec sheet? AMSOIL products are formulated to meet or exceed the performance requirements set forth by the manufacturers of all applications shown/listed here.
The words formulated to meet or exceed are their code for "we made it so it will meet the approval standards, but we don't have the actual approval." They've been using that line for years.

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VWoA had the 5w30 noted as an approved oil back in Jan 2018 as provided to a customer. source

Should note that Pennzoil Plat Euro L also showed as approved at that time..so must be a recent reformulation that excluded it from approval vs. the LX.

And perhaps Amsoil was excluded, too, or they didn't pay for the approval for 2019. Either way, it's not currently approved.

It doesn't really matter whether the AEL is currently approved or not. It's a good oil and nobody is ever going to have a warranty claim denied due to its use. If VW was that stingy that would be reason enough to never buy their products, imo.

turbobrick240 said:

It doesn't really matter whether the AEL is currently approved or not. It's a good oil and nobody is ever going to have a warranty claim denied due to its use. If VW was that stingy that would be reason enough to never buy their products, imo.

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You're probably right. It's the deceptive marketing that bugs me. Look at what happened here: People read their spec sheets as Amsoil having the approvals when VW says they don't. Disingenuous at best.

Also to add to the confusion, this latest list of approved VW 507 oils (Technical Service Bulletin Transaction No:2012855/21 dated 6/13/19) is hosted in a .gov site. Why can't VW host an official list in the vw.com domain like Mercedes Benz does in their site?

Ravenol produces a 507 group IV oil with VW approvals. Made in germany with truth in labeling requirement means it is actually group IV/V and not III.