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Fuels & Lubricants Discussion all about Fuels & Lubricants. synthetic oil, conventional oil, brands, change intervals, diesel grades, gelling and such debated items like that. Non TDI related postings will be moved or removed. This forum is NOT for the discussion of biodiesel and other alternative fuels.

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Old March 29th, 2006, 12:09   #91
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Viscosity Comparison @ 100 C
(Manual Tranny Fluids)
16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90
15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90

15.6 = VW G50 (synthetic)
15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90
15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90
13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90
10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80
9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler)
9.08 = penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid
6.3 = VW G52 (mineral)


Added in what I use. Penzoil Synchromesh. But will switch to Amsoil when I order my by-pass filter.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 12:49   #92
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SUNRG, thanks for pulling that! I'm luvin' the chart!
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Old March 29th, 2006, 13:32   #93
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How is redline 80W90 thinner than 75W90?.... That puzzles me.

Also,
I'm going to change the transmission fluid in my 951 this year, and want to go with something a bit thinner. Looks like the syncromesh is a good choice if it's a 75W90 oil, where could I find that out?


(sorry if I hijacked)
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Old March 29th, 2006, 14:49   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03_01_TDI
Viscosity Comparison @ 100 C
(Manual Tranny Fluids)
16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90
15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90

15.6 = VW G50 (synthetic)
15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90
15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90
15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90
14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90
13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90
10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80
9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler)
9.08 = penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid
6.3 = VW G52 (mineral)


Added in what I use. Penzoil Synchromesh. But will switch to Amsoil when I order my by-pass filter.


Wow , those are all GL-4....

I know the Mobil Synthetic is not and I was told by Mobil "do not use in your VW transaxle"
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Old March 29th, 2006, 17:11   #95
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SUNRG
karlaudi - you and i don't disagree. from my initial post:

i am not recommending second guessing VW. i've repeatedly posted that my shifting with G52 was just fine. i personally am experimenting with some other manual transmission fluids - but i'm not recommending that anyone else does. i have stated that IMHO if someone was bent on going with something other than OEM mineral G52 that Redline MTL seems like it may be the most similar after-market option.

you wrote:

i took "etc" to mean G52, and the viscosity of G52 is not the same as G50 or G51 - that's all.

you've been referring to your 2002 Bentley Manual. below is page 34-15 of the 2005 Bentley. regarding the two G52s (mineral and synthetic) it states "Viscosity is not specified for either gear oil." i have had the mineral G52 repeatedly lab tested (used sample tested 4x, new sample tested 2x) and its V@100c is 6.3cSt or very close to that. because it is clearly NOT a 75w-90 gear oil i've recommended "sticking with OEM G52 if that's what your transmission specifies" because as AndyH has stated, using a fluid that's significantly thicker than what is OEM specified can decrease performance and increase wear.




SUNRG, Cool Chart!

I currently only have the CD-ROM Manual and this chart I do not believe is listed. The viscosities that I quoted are listed with the General Specifications, Technical Data and Capacities section for the Manual Transmissions. VW/Audi Part Numbers for the various gear oils are not listed in this section.

I wrote "etc." because, although G52 was never mentioned, it was in the TSB I provided and I did not have either an updated CD-ROM or the latest hardcopy manual. Experience indicated later manuals would most likely list it.

We may both be on opposite sides of the same page.
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Old March 29th, 2006, 17:58   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zero10
How is redline 80W90 thinner than 75W90?.... That puzzles me.
these are all V@100c which is basically viscosity when HOT - so only the second number in a multigrade listing applies (the 90 in a 75w-90 or 80w-90).

now, 90 weight oils can be of V@100c viscosities ranging from 13.5cSt to 23.9cSt.

taking this information into consideration, we know for certain that syncromesh is NOT a 75w-90.

Quote:
Also, I'm going to change the transmission fluid in my 951 this year, and want to go with something a bit thinner. Looks like the syncromesh is a good choice if it's a 75W90 oil, where could I find that out?
FrankM wrote:
Quote:
Wow , those are all GL-4....
No.

Quote:
(Manual Tranny Fluids)
16.7 = Motul MOTYLGEAR 75-90 GL4/5
15.6 = Redline MT-90 75-90 GL4
15.6 = VW G50 (synthetic) GL4
15.2 = Mobil 1 Synthetic 75W-90 GL5
15.2 = Motul Gear 300 75-90 GL4/5
15.0 = Elf Tranself Synthese FE 75-90 GL4/5
14.9 = AMSOIL AGL 80W-90 GL?
13.8 = Amsoil MTG 75-90 GL4
10.6 = Redline MTL 70-80 GL4
9.6 = AMSOIL MTF Synchromesh Trans fluid (GM/Chrysler) NONE
9.08 = penzoil Synchromesh trans fluid NONE
6.3 = VW G52 (mineral) NONE
karlaudi wrote:
Quote:
We may both be on opposite sides of the same page.
agreed!

cheers!
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Old March 29th, 2006, 19:38   #97
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Sigh... Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the parts counter...

I picked-up my liter of G052171A2 today. I also got what I thought was going to be my liter of G052726A2 and when I looked at the bottle in the car (I don't recommend reading transmission fluid bottles while driving down the interstate at 75, by the way...!) and it's G055726A2. Ahhh...what's G55?!
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Old March 30th, 2006, 03:44   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyH
Sigh... Just when you thought it was safe to go back to the parts counter...

I picked-up my liter of G052171A2 today. I also got what I thought was going to be my liter of G052726A2 and when I looked at the bottle in the car (I don't recommend reading transmission fluid bottles while driving down the interstate at 75, by the way...!) and it's G055726A2. Ahhh...what's G55?!
G55 must be the really-REALLY-ultra-mega-mega OEM gear oil
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Old March 30th, 2006, 03:46   #99
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Yeah, Troy has mentioned G55...he says that's what they use at his place.

I have no idea what it is.
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Old March 30th, 2006, 06:06   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyH
I also got what I thought was going to be my liter of G052726A2 and when I looked at the bottle in the car and it's G055726A2. Ahhh...what's G55?!
perhaps the G52 726 has been superseded with the G55 heh...
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Old March 30th, 2006, 09:37   #101
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[music from the twilight zone] And the plot thickens.. (pun intended )
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Old March 30th, 2006, 18:57   #102
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The G052 smells very...solventy... with none of the usual sulfur smell, and absolutely no fruity notes. The G055 had a 'nice' sulfur smell and seemed a 'proper smelling' gear oil. It's like the difference between smelling acetone (G052) and paint thinner (G055). I was kinda joking in the other thread that G52 was ATF -- but it smells a whole lot closer to hydraulic fluid than gear lube, for sure.

Last edited by AndyH; March 30th, 2006 at 19:25.
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Old March 30th, 2006, 19:25   #103
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Synchromesh:
You've got it, Rob -- synchromesh isn't 75W-90 - it's an application specific gear lube that replaces 5W-30 engine oil in certain GM and Chrysler transmissions.

75W vs 75 gear lubes - apples and oranges:
There were questions about 75W and 75W-90 earlier and it seemed that things got off-course a bit. There are a couple of different types of viscosity measurement. Viscosity is generic 'thickness' of the fluid in a specific condition. The SAE 90 (the -90 side of 75W-90) is kinematic viscosity at 100C. One way of measuring this is to put oil in a calibrated cup with a hole in the bottom - you time how long it takes the fluid to drain and look up the viscosity on a chart. Other viscosity measurements are made with the fluid in motion - like HTHS (yes Rob - I agree it's a viscosity measurement ) where the 'apparent' viscosity is measured as a fluid lubricates a bearing at a certain speed and load and temperature. This gives a different value than the kinematic value, even at the same temperature, because parts of the oil - like the viscosity improver additives - 'straighten' or 'align' when being squeezed thru narrow passages and the oil temporarily 'thins'. The 'cold' viscosity - the 75W part - is an 'apparent' viscosity measurement at some cold temperature. In engine oil, the point is to examine the oil's resistance to cold cranking.

The 'oil in motion' equipment is calibrated with straight-weight reference fluids - they know that a straight 10 fluid causes x amount of torqe loss at a specific condition, and 20 fluid causes more. The oil under test is run, the torque loss is measured, and the test oil is labeled according to how well it behaves compared to the straight weight reference fluids. It's possible for the same fluid to have different ratings as well -- AMSOIL's marine gear lube is a 75W/80W-90 -- it behaves as both a 75W and an 80W in the individual tests.

The point of this is that the 75W and the 90 are different measurements at different temperatures using different measuring equipment and can't be directly compared.

Andy
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Old March 31st, 2006, 07:22   #104
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Thanks for that explanation Andy. Very useful!
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Old March 31st, 2006, 09:20   #105
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Well, I'm going to try the synchromesh in my 951. The wear tests are looking good. My only concern is the oil won't create enough drag for the synchro's to work properly. If this happens, I'll pick the standard Amsoil 75W90 for my transmission, as it has the lowest viscosity for a 75W90 oil that I have found.
Thanks for all the info on this stuff!
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