2010 Jetta - DPF Excessive Soot Acumulation

I did this by accident a while ago. Cold temps when installed and warmed up during the trip. Didn't see any elevated temps at all. It did throw a code (after 5 hours of driving) for inter-cooler inefficiency, Which Torque warned me of. Stopped, removed the covers and cleared the code. No issues.

I'm in the same situation as TurboABA...egt sensor failed, replaced sensor, dpf light on, soot level too high to regen...only have about 1500km since the last regen. Hooked it up to a member's VCDS last night and couldn't force into a regen. Ordering a VCDS today, so I can do the TurboABA's regen at home. Has anyone actually burned their car up doing this? It seems like more than a few have done it, but I haven't heard anything bad.

As a second option, Liberty International Truck in Manchester does DPF cleaning. Typically big trucks, but he thought they could adapt to a car DPF. $295 for a pneumatic cleaning, an additional $150 if it needs to be baked. He said the DOC (diesel oxidizing catalyst I think) needs to be removed prior to them getting it. Is it in the same unit as the DPF?

Saphauler said:

I'm in the same situation as TurboABA...egt sensor failed, replaced sensor, dpf light on, soot level too high to regen...only have about 1500km since the last regen. Hooked it up to a member's VCDS last night and couldn't force into a regen. Ordering a VCDS today, so I can do the TurboABA's regen at home. Has anyone actually burned their car up doing this? It seems like more than a few have done it, but I haven't heard anything bad.

As a second option, Liberty International Truck in Manchester does DPF cleaning. Typically big trucks, but he thought they could adapt to a car DPF. $295 for a pneumatic cleaning, an additional $150 if it needs to be baked. He said the DOC (diesel oxidizing catalyst I think) needs to be removed prior to them getting it. Is it in the same unit as the DPF?

Click to expand...

I haven't heard of any horror stories.... I can't recall at what milage I did mine, but it's been a few years since and I'm still driving the car without any issues. I've got over 100k miles on the clock now, and regens are still happening on their own, etc.

I would strongly advise against any sort of "pneumatic" or forced cleaning. If you read the SSP that are available on the design of our DPFs, you will see that they can be very easily damaged by such actions.

Best of luck!

Saphauler said:

I'm in the same situation as TurboABA...egt sensor failed, replaced sensor, dpf light on, soot level too high to regen...only have about 1500km since the last regen. Hooked it up to a member's VCDS last night and couldn't force into a regen. Ordering a VCDS today, so I can do the TurboABA's regen at home. Has anyone actually burned their car up doing this? It seems like more than a few have done it, but I haven't heard anything bad.

As a second option, Liberty International Truck in Manchester does DPF cleaning. Typically big trucks, but he thought they could adapt to a car DPF. $295 for a pneumatic cleaning, an additional $150 if it needs to be baked. He said the DOC (diesel oxidizing catalyst I think) needs to be removed prior to them getting it. Is it in the same unit as the DPF?

Click to expand...

Give these guys a call

Turbo, I think in one of your posts in this thread, you went like 3 mo and 10k km before you did the emergency regen. The car's' still running great with great fuel mileage, so it can't be that clogged. I'm at a few weeks and 1500km...figured I'd be OK, but thought I'd ask the question.

Monster, I took a quick look at their website, and I think they're doing the same thing..pneumatic blowout and bake.

FYI. Just copied the below information from this website. Seems like they can't be cleaned, although somewhere I came across a website where someone did a step by step dismantling/welding back together of the DPF/CAT.

To inspect filter loading, you must use a VCDS cable and software or dealership tools. Once the filter reaches 95% clogged, it must be removed from the car and replaced or cleaned using a DPF cleaning machine. Heavy duty truck services do DPF cleaning but as far as I know, this is not possible for the DPF/cat units used on 2.0L TDI engines because the cat/DPF is combined into one piece. Truck services require the DPF to be separate for effective cleaning.

The info from that linked website is a little dated. (as far as this goes)

at least one member here has reported sending the DPF off for cleaning, but made the mistake of not understanding when the cleaner told him his DPF was cracked.

so it is possible to have a VW DPF cleaned.

If my measured soot value was over 50ml, I would send it off. would want to discuss to make sure they had done similar make/model FPD cleaning before.

I would not worry so much if the calculated was over, but measured was under.

Below is the test results as of last night. I had a 1.5hr all highway drive home, so I wouldn't expect them to be much different. Car has 92k miles.

From what I've read, the 90mL particle filter oil ash volume is in line with the approximate 1mL/10k miles.

I still don't quite get this. So where does the calculate soot load and the measured soot load come from? Does the computer "think" there's too much soot in the DPF because of the calc'd value, and that's why it won't regen, but since the measured value is 0, there really isn't any soot in it??

18:45:28 Group 241: DPF Soot load
90 ml Particle Filter Oil Ash Volume
50.1 Soot Load(g) Calculated
0.0 Soot Load(g) Measured

How did it get that high? (ok, I see it is the bad exhaust temp sensor)

http://www.natef.org/NATEF/media/NATEFMedia/VW%20Files/2-0-TDI-SSP.pdf see page 62.

includes details on how the engine computer manages the soot, and timing of the active regeneration.

there are three ways the ECU decides to run a regeneration,

soot load calculated, (based on operating parameters, temps, and oxygen sensor)
soot load measured, (based on differential pressure, input mass flow, and temperature)

miles since last completed active regeneration is the third way.

if you have an engine light, (which of course, you must have), it could be because one of the sensors needed to control the regeneration is not working,

if it is one of the sensors used for the measured soot, it will read 0, I am guessing.


I agree the ash load is not a problem.

if you are not in a hurry, you can watch the measured soot load and see if it changes. mine goes up and down, but I have 140k on mine. most of the time I see 0 measured soot, and it then goes up and down as I drive. ( I have logged on my VCDS, and now have a PF03 to distract me while I drive)

here is the free advice part.

I watch my car step to calculated soot levels arond 16.5, then a regen, while the measured can be at 0, but also up to two or three. well below the calculated value.

I do also see the differential pressure related to the DPF, which varies, but for me, just before a regen, can be up to 10 at idle.

this tells me that the calculated method of soot estimation is more pessimistic than it has to be.

translation: I would not be too worried if you can trick it into a regen. (but would want to do it on a drive in moderate temperatures with an expected clear path and good air flow to keep the risk to a reasonable level.

The measured soot needs the engine running to register too.

(with no engine rotation, no mass flow, no differential pressure, no measured soot)

might want to hook up the VCDS and pick a couple regen parameters and log during a drive.

http://www.myturbodiesel.com/wiki/dpf-obd-charts/

for reference. ( I will e-mail you a pdf if you prefer)

Meer...lots of good information, and it'll take some time to digest, especially that pdf.

I don't remember what the pressure readings were, but I think the measured soot load was still 0 when the car was running...could be wrong though.

I've ordered my own VCDS which should be here this weekend.

The VCDS came in today and I hooked it up to the car this afternoon. I don't have it hooked up now, so I'll need to summarize what I did. Took a 10 min. drive to get to the driveway...car plenty warm. VCDS-Went to the engine control module. Security Access and typed in the 12233 code. Went to adaption and selected the regen by driving from the pulldown. On the left side, I changed the 0 to a 1, and selected Save, the numbers cleared out, and then done and back. I went to the measuring blocks and opened 99 and 241 to monitor. Got going and pulled on the highway and drove about 60mph in 4th gear for 5 min. and as far as I can tell the car never went into regen mode...popped the clutch in a few times and the rev's dropped to <800rpm. I went through the process a few times, and it didn't regen.

What am I missing?

Are all the sensors working?

What did the measuring blocks read on the drive?

(you can also use advance measuring blocks to pick values)

For block 99, I was getting the preturbo reading of say 190 at idle and as high as say 650 under acceleration. The other two (post turbo and somewhere else) were generally in the 300-350 range I think.

For block 241, I was getting the 50.1 calc'd soot, 0.0 measured soot, and mileage since last regen.

It seems that all the sensors are reading properly.

I'll have to find the advanced measuring blocks.

http://forums.ross-tech.com/showthr...Filter-not-regenerating&highlight=force+regen

you also probably want to register on the ross-tech forum directly. if your answer is not above, you can post an auto-scan from the VCDS for your car and get some hints.

The ECU will not go into the regen with the measured soot over 42.

So to trick it, you need to reset as if you had replaced the DPF. (this would drive the caclulated soot back to 0)

(measured soot looks ok, but I would want to see it register something.) mine will go up a bit on cold start, in traffic with the AC on.

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/2.0L_CR_TDI

if you had replaced the DPF,

above link advises:

Adaptation of Carbon Mass (after DPF Replacement)

Prerequisites:

• Ignition ON
• Engine OFF

[Security Access -16]
Enter the code shown in the VCDS pop-up balloon for "Adaptation Enabling"
[Do It!]
[Adaptation - 10]
From the pulldown menu, select the entry for "Carbon Mass (DPF Replacement)" or "Particle filter initialization".
Save a new value of 1 to reset the learned Carbon Mass. It's normal for that value to automatically change to 0 after it has been successfully saved. Check and clear fault codes to make sure none are present.

Saphauler said:

The VCDS came in today and I hooked it up to the car this afternoon. I don't have it hooked up now, so I'll need to summarize what I did. Took a 10 min. drive to get to the driveway...car plenty warm. VCDS-Went to the engine control module. Security Access and typed in the 12233 code. Went to adaption and selected the regen by driving from the pulldown. On the left side, I changed the 0 to a 1, and selected Save, the numbers cleared out, and then done and back. I went to the measuring blocks and opened 99 and 241 to monitor. Got going and pulled on the highway and drove about 60mph in 4th gear for 5 min. and as far as I can tell the car never went into regen mode...popped the clutch in a few times and the rev's dropped to <800rpm. I went through the process a few times, and it didn't regen.

What am I missing?

Click to expand...

You can't regen until you zero out the values like I described in my earlier post. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4636283&postcount=55

After that procedure, if you have fixed all your sensors and no other errors exist, you can trigger a regen.

Meer, that link from this morning was helpful and got me to figure it out

I was trying to reset the values for regen while driving. I didn't realize you needed to clear the values as if you had installed a new DPF...#16...I did it with the car running though...didn't know it was supposed to be off. Cleared the values there, started the regen while driving and finally got the car to regen. It took about 10 min. and it was done. All three dash lights were still on though, so I went into the OBD tool and cleared the soot code, but the dpf light is still on...all others off. Restarted the car, DPF light is still on, and the information center still says to check the DPF.

Any ideas on why the DPF light is still on?

Thanks for the help.

I do have an idea.

there are three kinds of regenerations, NOx, DPF, and SOx.

the light will stay on until each has gone through a cycle.

(my semi-informed guess)

if you look at the chart on page 71 of the SSP (see post 99), there is a nice graph,

every third to fifth DPF regeneration, the temperatures stay elevated longer (15-20 minutes or so) and the sulfur cat gets a cleaning.)

other folks have seen that the DPF light stays lit for a while after everything is up to speed. I suspect it is just waiting for a completed SOx regen.

keep an eye on it, and make sure it regens by itself.

Congrats on getting it going again.

Did you ever see the measured soot level blip up a bit before your reset the values?

It's my wife's car for running around town, but I have an hour drive to work. I'll keep driving it until the lights clear out. Hopefully it does it sometime this week. It's at about 1.5hrs of driving since it did the regen cycle.

The measured soot level hasn't moved since sometime last week, but then all my driving has been highway or high rpm driving trying to get the car to regen. Maybe it doesn't buildup under these conditions??

Thanks to everyone for helping me through this. Greatly appreciated and I learned a lot through this process.

Update. Drove home, DPF light still on. Hooked up the VCDS this morning, drove to work and the calc'd soot value was 5.7. 20 min later, I noticed the calc'd value was down to 4.5. Looked at the dash and the dpf was off...must've done a little regen cycle and it cleared the light.

Measured soot values have never been above 0.0 since I've had the VCDS. Not sure why on this one.

You almost have to log for a couple whole drives so see what happens.

I did a couple times, and now have A PF03, which lets me watch the two soot levels, and other parameters.

I see the measured soot move up some and then back down, to 0. to the end of a cycle, when calculated soot increases, I am more likely to see a value, seems like it seldom is much above 2 or 3.

my calculated soot increases to around 16.5, then an active DPF regen. ( I know different models/years have different triggers and even readings reported)

(also observed, but less visible, are the NOX regens that happen more often, but are much shorter. pre-turbo temp spikes to 1000f for a second or so. seems like this also makes for some passive regeneration, which drives the measured soot level back down)

glad you have the issue put to bed.

since the measured soot is calculated from mass flow and dpf pressure, might want to gander at those values and log for a drive or two just to make sure, probably optional at this point.

I want to Thank TurboABA for this awesome thread which helped me to clear my DPF light and saved me from thousands of dollars while I didn't needed a new filter as yet.
Thanks again all for such helpful information which was posted here. I couldn't have done without you guys..

No problem... I couldn't have done it without my friend allowing me to borrow his VCDS for all these years LOL

TurboABA said:

I've got another update on my "status".
http://i58.tinypic.com/2ytnw46.jpg



Just I had suspected, and as I have been noticing from monitoring my SGII, my new driving routine and conditions are causing active regens at a much more accelerated rate. Here's a quick breakdown of how I've accumulated my ash volume since I've purchased the car.

The initial ~115,000 kms of long, non-grid lock commuting resulted in 69ml worth of accumulation.

The following ~10,000 kms of same condition driving are unaccounted for since regens were not happening, and whatever ash resulted from me forcing the system to regen once I replaced my sensor remains an unknown.

The following ~35,000 kms of slightly less "optimal" driving conditions resulted in an additional 9ml of accumulation.

My last ~2,000 kms of crap short commutes/daily use in stop-and-go (at times) conditions, have resulted in an additional 9ml of accumulation.

As I had mentioned before, my new commute consists of a short 11min/13km drive where the car doesn't even reach full operating temperature in the mornings, on the way to work. The return trip is much worse, as it usually results in a 25-30min commute due to traffic and grid-lock. This is compared to the prior driving pattern of 44min/53km each way, with very little traffic.

So just a heads up to all who are following the "milage vs ashloads" threads...... it's not as simple as that.... driving conditions and use patterns are much more important than milage alone.

I have see a very significant increase in both my active regens as well as my fuel consumption as a result of the above.

Click to expand...

So in case anyone still cares, I've racked up another ~44,000 kms since I last checked my ash levels, and I have picked up another 21ml during this time. I should mention that for the last year and a half, I have changed my job and my commute is now about 35-45min/45km each way with mixed conditions, from slow 2nd-3rd gear traffic, to full out 6th gear 110km cruising.

TurboABA said:

So in case anyone still cares, I've racked up another ~44,000 kms since I last checked my ash levels, and I have picked up another 21ml during this time. I should mention that for the last year and a half, I have changed my job and my commute is now about 35-45min/45km each way with mixed conditions, from slow 2nd-3rd gear traffic, to full out 6th gear 110km cruising.

Click to expand...

Not sure anyone is still following this or caring about DPF related issues, especially since most probably took the buyout unlike me...... regardless, my "appliance" is still running strong. I'm just at over 245k on the clock, and I just checked ash levels last night, but I didn't record the value.... I'll report back later this weekend because I don't recall if I was up to 90ml or something different, and I don't want to provide the wrong update.

It doesn't really matter much anyways, as if there will be any sort of issue with the DPF, it will be covered for me over the next 50k due to the extended warranty from the "TDI FIX".

Well I just checked again, and it seems like I'm at 60ml reading, which would put me somewhere around 130-135ml lifetime total I would suspect. This is at 245k, with about 25k since the TDI FIX.

Aaaannnddd..... if anyone cares, I just checked again. The reading is 78ml @ 274k..... still going on what was once thought to be a clogged DPF that needed replacement. Regens are happening more frequently now for sure, but I still have about 40k worth of fix warranty so I'm not stressing.