Electric Parking Brake omg

Funguy · Jul 23, 2016

I drove a loaner Tiguan with the electric parking brake for a week. I couldn't think of any good reason for this gizmo. It is activated by a little lever in the center console. Kept wondering what would happen if on a highway the dog, the kid, long sleeves or whatever yanked that switch!? Yippee.

And if you had a brake failure how would you modulate your braking to come to a safe stop?

Or how would I teach my grand kids skid control without snow covered parking lot and a parking brake I can control? Still remember my kids enjoying those lessons.

Is there an upside to this?

ZippyNH · Jul 23, 2016

Nope...
Just less stupid driver tricks, so less "accidents" might happen....maybe slightly more desgin freedom too..
Have had them on a few rentals....hate them.

NarfBLAST · Jul 23, 2016

They improve packaging and interior design by running wires instead of heavy duty cables and eliminating the big handle or extra foot pedal.

They improve safety because they do not operate while the vehicle is in motion.

There is no good (or legal) reason to use the parking brake to stop the vehicle. In the case of brake failure only one of the lines or wheels are likely to fail at a time, the pedal may sink due to loss of fluid, but you should be able to pump the foot brake and use the extra fluid in the reservoir to stop the car. You should never use the hand brake. Vehicles have been designed like this for this for decades, and drivers ed classes teach this. The hand brake is for parking only. Besides, have you every tried to stop the car from any speed using only the rear wheels? It either takes forever or they lock up and you go sideways.

I agree the only downside is not being able to pull handbrake turns on snow and ice. Also I like manual/mechanical things but I also like power windows so I could probably get used to an electric parking brake button.

Funguy · Jul 23, 2016

I would prefer if they spent that money and design effort into a nice massaging driver seat. Then if the dog turned that on by mistake it would be a good thing.

Funguy · Jul 23, 2016

I am doing a little more reading. Some good things is that the electric brakes can work with the abs systems and don't lock the wheels. They can also be configured to work with all four wheels. I have been in a situation, on an icy hill, where I could no longer go forward (uphill) and the parking brake would not hold the vehicle in place. I had to have my foot on the brake. Amazingly I don't remember how I resolved that situation but I recall the stress. Four wheel parking brake would have been nice. I think people in the Rocky mountains might like that also.

I am talking myself into something that I started a thread to ***** about!

Henrick · Jul 24, 2016

Funguy said:
And if you had a brake failure how would you modulate your braking to come to a safe stop?

Try to simulate this. You will be surprised. Press the button and hold while driving. All 4 wheel brakes will activate and stop the car to a dead stop. I think even with greater power than you normally do with your foot.

Funguy · Jul 24, 2016

I don't have that car any more as it was a loaner but I understand what you are saying; that these electric brakes will stop the car very fast right? That is probably a good thing but can you ease off on them if you don't need to stop so fast?

And again, if the dog or child in the car or however it gets activated by accident you could get rear ended. Narfblast in a post #3 says these brakes don't activate while the car is in motion.
I think there is good potential for this advance but they really need to position and design the switch so that it is less likely to be accidentally switched on.

NarfBLAST · Jul 24, 2016

I have to admit that I don't know that much about them, but I love a good discussion.

I heard about some cars where you can't use the electronic handbrake while driving from a Motortrend show on YouTube... I guess other cars, if you hold the button long enough, engage all four wheels? I am not sure how you would use this in an emergency when you have to wait for the "accidental press delay" to elapse.

I guess we need to get some owners manuals and see how the engineers and lawyers say to use the electronic brake.

GetMore · Jul 24, 2016

I guess it depends on how they actuate the brakes. If it uses the hydraulic system then if your brakes fail you still have no brakes. If they apply through mechanical means then they are a backup, and therefore "emergency" and not just "parking" brakes.

The cars that I have been in that have the button for the parking brake have a motor that applies them, and you can hear it, which means it is mounted to the body. That means they are still cable actuated, same as if you had a handle. This is a true backup, and is only on the rear brakes. I doubt they are integrated into the ABS system, since they cannot respond quickly.

El Dobro · Jul 24, 2016

On the Volt, the parking brake is applied to the rear calipers by motors and you can apply them while driving, if you pull and hold the little switch. The up side of the electric parking brake is that when you try to drive off while they're applied, the car senses this and will release them.

turbobrick240 · Jul 24, 2016

NarfBLAST said:
They improve packaging and interior design by running wires instead of heavy duty cables and eliminating the big handle or extra foot pedal.

They improve safety because they do not operate while the vehicle is in motion.

There is no good (or legal) reason to use the parking brake to stop the vehicle. In the case of brake failure only one of the lines or wheels are likely to fail at a time, the pedal may sink due to loss of fluid, but you should be able to pump the foot brake and use the extra fluid in the reservoir to stop the car. You should never use the hand brake. Vehicles have been designed like this for this for decades, and drivers ed classes teach this. The hand brake is for parking only. Besides, have you every tried to stop the car from any speed using only the rear wheels? It either takes forever or they lock up and you go sideways.

I agree the only downside is not being able to pull handbrake turns on snow and ice. Also I like manual/mechanical things but I also like power windows so I could probably get used to an electric parking brake button.

I think a mechanical emergency brake is a great idea. I have personally used emergency brakes to stop a vehicle with brake failure on more than one occasion. It may be used for parking 99.9% of the time, but it's also there for emergency situations.

maybe368 · Jul 24, 2016

I am pretty sure that there has not been a true "emergency" brake in cars for many years. If the brake relies on the hydraulics of the system, then it cannot be a true emergency brake. I had a '66 Porsche 912 that had a single circuit hydraulic system and a true emergency brake, because it was mechanical and used a separate drum brake system. The older Mercedes used that system as well. The older Cadillac front wheel drive cars used a separate mechanical parking brake actuator, which would have given some emergency stop ability, but it was designed as a P-brake...Mark

GetMore · Jul 24, 2016

I am not sure why you don't consider most modern cars to have a "true" emergency brake.
Many cars mechanically apply the rear brakes as emergency/parking brakes. Most (all?) of the rest have a separate drum-in-disk brake assembly on the rear axle that is mechanically actuated.
I believe any of these systems can lock the wheels up, which means they are capable of being emergency brakes.

Again, I just don't understand, so if you know more about what makes a parking brake an emergency brake, but not vice-versa, please teach me.

Funguy · Jul 24, 2016

I know one guy who went through a busy intersection against a red light because his brakes failed and his "emergency" brake was likely out of adjustment or he was too shocked to pull it. That was in an old jeep.

For me I have pulled the e-brake on occasion usually moving cars on a sloped driveway with one foot out of the car. I either miss the brake and hit the clutch with my right foot or the vacuum is gone and the car was hard to stop. Startled me each time.

RalphVa · Jul 24, 2016

Guess you need a hefty parking brake to keep 5,000 # stopped.

Never could figure how VW (& BMW, too) so totally screwed up by coming out with a vehicle about the size of a Ford Explorer (typically about 4.3k #) that weighs almost as much as a Chevy Suburban.

maybe368 · Jul 24, 2016

What I was trying to say, not so well, is that these are parking brakes and aren't intended to be an "emergency" brake. There were (are?) true emergency brakes, but I don't believe that modern cars have brakes designed to be for emergency use. That doesn't mean that I won't use one if necessary

...Mark

El Dobro · Jul 24, 2016

Since around 1968, cars use systems where the brakes operate two and two. If one pair goes out, the other pair still operate separately. That's pretty much when emergency brakes became parking brakes.

turbobrick240 · Jul 24, 2016

For those fortunate enough to have experienced complete brake failure in post '68 vehicles, it doesn't matter if you call it an emergency brake, parking brake, or the configuration of the brake hydraulics. All that matters is that it stops the vehicle.

GetMore · Jul 24, 2016

I actually had both brake circuits fail on me at the same time in my Silverado. The lines (two of them, from the master cylinder to the ABS module/splitter) were rotted, and I hit the brakes hard (much harder than usual), and they both burst on me. The two-circuit design didn't help me at all.

Electric Parking Brake omg

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