BEW/PD Owners check your lift pump

FYI, just got this email from my German dealership contact:

"1J0 919 050 B has been replaced by part number 1J0 919 050. The part is available, your price is €242.24."

Can you see why it's a dealership? Expensive...
So there was a 050B, but now the latest version is still the standard 050.
-BB

I just installed a pressure gauge (compound, minus 15 to plus 15 psi) between the fuel filter outlet & the tandem pump suction. I have the BEW Jetta and used an 8mm SS compression tee & connected it too the SS fuel rail attached to the front of the valve cover. I have about 12 psi at idle so I know my lift pump is putting out. I keep a spare lift pump so when I ordered the stuff to do the alternate suction path mod (the nylon check with tee so tandem pump won't loose suction if lift pump fails) I ordered the stuff from McMaster Carr to install the gauge.

BleachedBora said:

FYI, just got this email from my German dealership contact:

"1J0 919 050 B has been replaced by part number 1J0 919 050. The part is available, your price is €242.24."

Can you see why it's a dealership? Expensive...
So there was a 050B, but now the latest version is still the standard 050.
-BB

Click to expand...

Aaron,
Thank you for educating me on this. I will update this thread, and I will *try* to get the message out.

This means that if anyone wishes to have the option to be able to vacuum drag fuel, then they will have to modify their new pumps, similar to the Left Coast Resident's mod.

Because the new replacement pump *will not* allow you to vacuum drag fuel out of the tank with the tandem pump as shipped.

Dan

Not a problem Dan--I was baffled as to why I couldn't get this supposedly updated pump...now we all know .
Cheers,
-Aaron

Interesting thread, but to hear the lift pump does the rear seat have to be up? I have never heard mine, but then again I can barely hear my turn signal blinker, if that tells you anything.

Many of us have to ensure no fans or radio is on, total quiet, then you can hear it.

Some of us do have to lift the right side of the back seat (really easy, just stick your hand in the crevice between the back and the bottom seat, grab the bottom and swing it up and forward. Once the bottom is up, most people can hear it from the front seat.

But some have to have the rear seat up and be in the back hovering over it. Then have someone else turn the key for you.

Dan

Thanks for the link. Wow, you have done a lot. I may try to pull mine to see about cleaning. I appreciate the help!

aespTDI said:

04SlvrJetta - Your pump is about to go out if it hasn't already. Here's my experience.

Bought my '05 last July in '08. I didn't know much about it until those here "enlightened" me. It started making a loud noise upon start up which at the time I took it as normal. I thought it was the start up noise that they refer to.

Then it began to get quite at start up. That sound which was so evident was no longer there. I pulled the supply line at the fuel filter and nothing was coming out when the key was turned on. Came to the decision that the lift pump was bad and ordered a new one, cost me $235 for the OEM version. Installed it and it made a difference.

Before it was sluggish and when idling at intersections the RPM's would fluctuate 100 or so. It seemed to go up and down slightly but you could see it in the needle movement.

All that is gone now and its a joy to drive. I even look for excuses to go out and drive it. Mine had 61k, save your money cause they are pricey but easy to install so at least you'll save on labor costs!

Click to expand...

Thanks! Other than noticing it (louder sound) a little when sitting and idling such as at a traffic light, I have not noticed anything else. I had the TB done a little over a month ago and the performance did improve. The shop told me that they tweaked things a little. I have not noticed any fluctuation or anything else. Before the TB I did notice what felt like a slight hesitation on acceleration when it was 25 degrees or below and on a cold engine. I have not noticed it since the TB but it could be coincidence. Someone e-mailed me a price of $200(I think) and the dealer wants close to $400 (only checked in case it just died on me). I appreciate the help.

"Other than noticing it (louder sound) a little when sitting and idling such as at a traffic light, I have not noticed anything else"

That's what happened to my lift pump, and two days later, failed at 50 MPH and I coasted off of the road. That was at 46,000 miles by the way. I was lucky, replaced under warranty by VW and the tow was free!

Mine failed without any impending warning. The engine just quit suddenly.

--Nate

failed lift pump?

OK, so about a month ago I'd notice that when I'd cycle power to on (but not start) I'd hear a loud groaning noise. Not always, but often. It'd come and go. Finally today, I started the car, drove it about 300ft and total loss of power - engine just died. After cranking it a LOT I got it started, and it ran as long as I kept RPM above 1500 or so, but as soon as I'd slow, again dead dead dead.

I'm assuming this is a lift pump issue, but since I've got a 2005 (pre .5) TDI PD, I'd assume I've got the factory "B" variant? So, shouldn't I keep running, or am I misunderstanding?

Also, anyone out there have input on how involved replacement of the lift pump is? Is this something that can be accomplished in an afternoon by someone reasonably versed in general auto work, or should I seek a guru? I'm assuming the tank requires being dropped?

Finally, when searching for a pump many places the only notation I can find is "3 BAR pump". What IS the correct pressure for the PD lift pump?

Lift pump is under the rear seat drivers side. Easy to get to. Search and read some threads here about this. No tank dropping, comes out the top. Should be a fairly easy task. Make really sure you get the fuel lines back on where they belong. Take a picture is what I do.

Thanks, I actually noticed I was on the page with that info and photos of the pump location right after I'd posted. Duh.

But, sadly, I'd just filled up the night before I had problems, so looks like I'm going to need to syphon off some fuel before I get to this.

As for pump pressure, what's the correct rating? 3 bar equates to about 45psi, which seems high but I don't know. And, in the mean time til I can come up with the $250-300 for a new pump is there any sort of work-around? If not, I may just check the junkyards and try to find a working one off a junker to work til funds come along...

This is probably the worst junkyard part imaginable; you could easily go through ten before you found one that worked. They all fail. I don't know what the pressure is, but on the epic lift pump thread there are flow tests; you put some power to the pump and see how much it pumps in a timed minute. Since most of the fuel it pumps is just being circulated back to the tank, I don't think the pressure makes any difference.

Your problem doesn't sound like a lift pump to me, though. What you hear about is either the car won't start or run at all, or it will get fuel starved at higher RPMs. Maybe your pump is clogged to the point where it's obstructing fuel flow when it's not working. I guess the only "workaround" that might keep you moving temporarily would be to remove the pump and clean it, making sure that fuel can flow freely when the pump is not working. That might even mean doing the LCR modification. That's all a guess.

My dead lift pump had no noticeable effect on the starting or running of my car; I probably bought the car with a dead pump. I just tested it one day and found out. I'm not sure why Nate's car stopped suddenly, but the logical explanation is that his lift pump was the type that will not allow fuel to flow when it's not running. All the replacements are like that to my knowledge. I did the modification using viton tubing from dudadiesel.com and the other parts from mcmaster-carr, and sure enough, I can pull the lift pump fuse and the car runs fine.

You are going to want to pull the fuel lines at your filter and see if cycling the key spits fuel out. If so change the filter. If not hit the top of the pump with something to knock it around a bit. I heard this can be a short term fix as the brushes in the pump find enough contact to work for a bit. You can also pull the fuze that runs the pump to see if you still will be able to draw fuel. If so then you are fine till you have the money to change the pump. If not then you need a pump soon. There is a way to bypass the pump if it fails and I installed that on my new pump. I found mine out changing the filter right before a long trip (big mistake) I had to rush a pump in to make the trip. If you are going to change a filter I would do a couple weeks before a long trip.

The two pumps I took apart both had completely worn carbon brushes but on the Ground side only. I replaced these and now both pumps bench tested good. I googled the Bosch part number for the actual pump, but could not find any sources in NA.

I say its a lift pump failure. These usually present themselves from about 80,000 miles on. Some PD TDIs will run without the lift pump, some run poorly, and some stop dead in their tracks and will not start until the pump is replaced. Mine falls into the last category. My Jetta's original lift pump failed (at 46,000 miles) and I coasted off the road and my car was towed to VW. The only good thing about my failure is it was so early it was a warranty tow and repair.

I would replace the pump now. The PDs are so uncommon I doubt you would find a used lift pump and it would fail at some point. They are not rebuildable either (hermetically sealed and parts not available. The usual mode of failure is worn out motor brushes, sometimes accompanied by disenigration of the motor commutator.

I am strongly contemplating replacing my replaced pump now. It has 90,000 miles on it now.

--Nate

JB05 said:

The two pumps I took apart both had completely worn carbon brushes but on the Ground side only. I replaced these and now both pumps bench tested good. I googled the Bosch part number for the actual pump, but could not find any sources in NA.

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Where did you finds the brushes and how did you get the pump open without destroying its casing? Inquiring minds would like to know!

--Nate

Bought my car last year with 125k on it, pump was already dead at that time but I didn't really notice any ill effects. I replaced it at about 130k, doesn't act any differently (though I was hoping it would start a bit better), and now at 145k its still working...hopefully it lasts a while. I didn't mod the pump, so if and when this one croaks i'll know it. Maybe I should pull it and modify it

The mod is pretty easy; the hardest part is getting yourself to hack away at the tubing of a brand new $250 pump. It really works, though.....

I would use the viton tubing from dudadiesel. It's not cheap but its really solid and will live in a vat of diesel happily. I would also be reluctant to do it on a used pump for the simple reason that it would be pretty messy, but maybe you can clean up the pump before wrestling with it.

Well, I did the mod after about 2000 miles on the new pump. Not too hard to do.

Well, as i'd said originally I had been noticing a load groan that'd come and go. Does this sound more like a pump on its last leg, or one with a clogged screen working too hard to pull? Either way, the last few attempts at starting have given no noise, but I haven't checked to see if the pump is making its normal noise, not the one that sounded like uncle bob after thanksgiving dinner. The car has 120,xxx on it and I assume the original pump, since I bought the car with around 11k, but was there any point where vw used the non-dead usable pump factory? I may also check the fuel filter, though that seems unlikely since its only got about 20-30k on it and the last time I had a clogged filter it was noticeable by a loss of power accelerating, and the filter before this one pulled out 60k problem free...

The lift pump is probably not working, if it's that old. But this is all speculation, just test it, it's not that hard. If you follow the steps on Dan's lift pump thread, you'll figure it out.

In general you should consider changing your fuel filter on schedule. (20K) It's got be tougher on the tandem pump to pull through an old filter with no lift pump, plus the fuel temps run higher when the lift pump isn't working.

Given your symptoms, the erratic stumbling, I would venture a guess that you have something else going on as well, but maybe not.

Erratic stumbling? I haven't had any issues, other than the groaning and now the dead/no start. I *was* suffering some power loss, 80k ago, linked to a fuel filter. Unless you were referring to another post...?

As for now, I've managed to get the seat up and can't hear any noise, at all, so looks like the pump is officially dead. Glad to see Bora has it for $200, which is $50 cheaper than anyone else thus far.

inlarry said:

Erratic stumbling? I haven't had any issues, other than the groaning and now the dead/no start. I *was* suffering some power loss, 80k ago, linked to a fuel filter. Unless you were referring to another post...?

As for now, I've managed to get the seat up and can't hear any noise, at all, so looks like the pump is officially dead. Glad to see Bora has it for $200, which is $50 cheaper than anyone else thus far.

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I thought you said something about the car stumbling at idle, but running at higher RPMs? I must be thinking of another thread. Sorry about that.

It would be a good idea to check voltage at the pump before pulling it.

success

Boraparts had the part to me at 10am 2 days after placing my order. The hardest part of the replacement was getting the lock-ring back down far enough to catch the threads, but once that issue was past all was good. Took a few cranks to get the air out of the lines, but finally fired up and is running good as new. I'll post photons of the old pump later.

Sorry, as for the stumbling issue, I guess there was a misunderstanding. I did have that issue, but only after the car died at a stop sign the first time and after some trying I got it going again so I could move it to a safer spot to wait for my tow, but died again as soon as I slowed down again. I can only assume I was running fast enough to use the upper pump to suck through the horribly clogged lower screen, or I simply sucked everything remaining out of the filter and lines.

Either way, post replacement all is running well.

Hi all!

I'm convinced my 2004 BEW Jetta (>60k) is having lift pump issues as well. I have pretty much all the same symptoms described by aespTDI in post #30 prior to complete pump failure. The lift is always quite loud before I turn the key to ignition. Sometimes, but not all the time, the lift pump makes a gargling sound before ignition and then for a while after ignition. From reading this thread it seems I have one of the following issues:
1) Air leaking into the lift pump stream
2) A clogged eductor jet (thought I'm still not clear as to why, even after reading Dan's lift pump operations thread)
3) A lift pump on it's last leg

Is there a way to diagnose which of these is the problem? Is there a way to check only for air leakage, and then later check the pump's health?

Thanks!

There are some tests you can run in this thread
PD lift pump and fuel system post #7, if memory serves.

TDI_TY said:

Hi all!

I'm convinced my 2004 BEW Jetta (>60k) is having lift pump issues as well. I have pretty much all the same symptoms described by aespTDI in post #30 prior to complete pump failure. The lift is always quite loud before I turn the key to ignition. Sometimes, but not all the time, the lift pump makes a gargling sound before ignition and then for a while after ignition. From reading this thread it seems I have one of the following issues:
1) Air leaking into the lift pump stream
2) A clogged eductor jet (thought I'm still not clear as to why, even after reading Dan's lift pump operations thread)
3) A lift pump on it's last leg

Is there a way to diagnose which of these is the problem? Is there a way to check only for air leakage, and then later check the pump's health?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

I would think that you may have to add a failing tandem pump to the list as well.

If you get the normal flow and pressure from your lift pump for several tests, then I would think it was air inleakage allowing drainback, or a bad tandem pump.

Usually when the main symptom is the noisy pump and hesitation taking off, the problem is simply the lift pump.

The post above links to some tests that I use to make the decision.

Good Morning Everyone,

I just installed a new lift pump (the grey top style). The pump cycles when the key is turned on for a few seconds and stops, but once the car is started you can here the pump running and it sounds like its cavitating when its running.

I did pull the fuel line off the filter and cycled the key and it gives a shot of fuel instantly.

Any thoughts if this is normal?