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Dieselgate - VW Group Emission Scandal Discussion around the VW Dieselgate Emissions scandal. Details and news updates can be viewed here: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=448336 This forum is a work in progress depending on requirements, usage, etc.

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Old August 22nd, 2016, 20:21   #1
Gary Barnhill
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Default (Possible) Scenario: The Buy Back of the Buy Back

Jackie Mason the old comedian joked about prostitution: What a great business; you got it, you sell it, but you still got it.

(Possible) Scenario: The Buy Back of the Buy Back

(Buy Back hereafter shortened to BB)

Personal Assumption #1: 2016 VW TDi will not be modified. There are too few vehicles to mess with. Not worth the candle. My dealer has 25 of the 2015 VW TDi for every one 2016 TDi waiting on the back lot. True or not, please don’t hijack the thread over this point. Note: page 15 chart only lists 2009 to 2015 TDi vehicles for emissions modification submittal dates and deadlines.

Personal Assumption #2: There will be a modification for all Generation 2 and Gen 3 VW TDi cars i.e. certain 2012-2015 TDi.

Personal Assumption #3: There may be a modification for Generation 1 VW TDi vehicles. Taking no bets but my guess is; there will be a fix unless the fix costs more that value of the vehicle. Example: super high mile 2009.

Personal Assumption #4: VW will resell BB vehicles in the USA after they modify the vehicles.

Personal Assumption #5: VW will sell brand new 2018 and 2019 model year TDi vehicles. Maybe 2017.

In my case; I will accept VW BB circa August 2018 when my car is exactly five years old. MSRP was $31,125. Got $5,000 discount. I paid $28,752 with taxes. Turn in with 43,550 miles for a + $4470 mileage adjustment. BB amount is $28,727. (Modification amount is about $7200 if I choose that route.)

I estimate a five-year old Passat TDi, when modified, is worth 30% of MSRP, maybe 40% depending on the market. So, I assume $10,000 to $12,000 resale value by some VW dealer.

If wrong about Assumption #4 then these precious modified TDi will be worth more. e.g. I sold my 5-year old Jetta TDi wagon for almost MSRP circa 2008 after California had banned diesel sales 2004-2008.

The VW dealer is not the entity doing the BB. VW AG doing the BB and paying the owner.

But, methinks the dealer is going to be standing there when I turn my car in. He’s going to look it over and say to the VW AG representative; I’d like to buy this cherry from you. If the car is crap he won’t make an offer to the VW AG rep who buys the car and will ship it out within 48 hours (call that a rumor).

The VW dealer wants to keep the good cars and is motivated to get paid for the “warranty work” by VW AG to modify the TDi.

Then the dealer will sell the TDi for a profit. This is similar to what happens to cars coming off lease. Some manufacturers let all dealers bid on cars coming off lease.

Now, if I keep an eye on my dealers used car lot; couldn’t I buy back my own Passat the next week, after it is modified, for around $12,000 (plus another $1,000 tax in CA)?

Bottom Line: You had it. You sold it. A week later you got it back, and approximately $16,000 in pocket (in my case).

Now, as I see it; instead of a BB, I could go for a modification and keep my Passat, i.e. the same result, I had it and I still got it, but that route will leave about $8,000 or $9,000 dollars on the table.

Just my two cents. Your mileage may vary.

Last edited by Gary Barnhill; August 23rd, 2016 at 07:54. Reason: corrected model year
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Old August 22nd, 2016, 22:05   #2
banshee365
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I had thought about this exact thing. I'm not sure if the cars will be able to stay within the dealer or if they are going to be shipping them off to depots as they are bought back. I don't think there is really much VW can do to keep this from happening. They are court ordered to buy them back, VW is going to want to recoup any money back they can by reselling modified cars, and they are only going to be able to get market value for them. For someone wanting to keep their car it would be something worth looking at.

But, there are many chances that it just won't be that easy to get your car back.
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 00:08   #3
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If you are going to get $16K for the car and then buy it back for around $12K (+1K in taxes), that is only $3K in your pocket (and that's ignoring dealer fees, etc. bringing it closer to $1500 or more). How do you think you'd be getting $9K back?

Wouldn't you be better off simply keeping it and taking the fix along with compensation?
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 00:25   #4
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The cars have a tainted reputation in the public eye, and they will be putting a lot of them on the national market over a short period of time. This has to knock down the resale prices from the Sept 2015 value.

If they had a web site that you could search for cars by VIN, you could find out if your old car is being offered for sale, and where.
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 05:03   #5
Freeze Plug
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle View Post
If you are going to get $16K for the car and then buy it back for around $12K (+1K in taxes), that is only $3K in your pocket (and that's ignoring dealer fees, etc. bringing it closer to $1500 or more). How do you think you'd be getting $9K back?

Wouldn't you be better off simply keeping it and taking the fix along with compensation?
the buyback amount stated above is $28K and change
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:18   #6
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I doubt we see any future 4 cyl TDIs here in the US
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:23   #7
Locoelectrician
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Originally Posted by k1xv View Post

If they had a web site that you could search for cars by VIN, you could find out if your old car is being offered for sale, and where.
www.google.com

If I search my vin right now it still shows the listing for when I bought it 3 years ago. Most car listings online include the vin so that people can look at carfax or whatever. I also had an Idea for a community info pool on buybacks.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=465055
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:28   #8
Gary Barnhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzle View Post
If you are going to get $16K for the car and then buy it back for around $12K (+1K in taxes), that is only $3K in your pocket (and that's ignoring dealer fees, etc. bringing it closer to $1500 or more). How do you think you'd be getting $9K back?

Wouldn't you be better off simply keeping it and taking the fix along with compensation?
In my HYPOTHETICAL scenario:

I hand VW my 2013 Passat.

VW hands me a check for $28,727.

The following week I purchase my old Passat, now modified, from the VW dealer's used car lot for as estimated price of $13,000 including taxes.

I now have my old car back and almost $16,000 in my pocket.

Stated differently: I give VW my Passat. The next week: VW gives me back TWO Passats plus free gas coupons for 48,000 miles of driving.
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:37   #9
bring
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Keep dreaming - the modification of your buyback (if it even happens) will not occur a week after the transaction. Keep in mind, VW is buying back the cars, not the dealer. In order to modify your buyback, wouldn't the dealer have to first buy it from VW?
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:45   #10
Gary Barnhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bring View Post
I doubt we see any future 4 cyl TDIs here in the US
Quote from Diesel Technology Forum:

Volkswagen’s brand chief isn’t giving up on diesels in the U.S. market despite the company’s emissions scandal that has undermined the eco-friendly credentials of the niche powertrain. Herbert Diess says that diesels will continue to have a role in Volkswagen’s U.S. lineup because, with the latest emissions technologies, diesels can be clean. He also touted the long range and high torque of diesel engines.
VW brand chief says diesels will stay in U.S. lineup (Automotive News, 1/6/16)
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:49   #11
bring
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please point to where it states 4 cylinder TDIs?
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:51   #12
Gary Barnhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bring View Post
Keep dreaming - the modification of your buyback (if it even happens) will not occur a week after the transaction. Keep in mind, VW is buying back the cars, not the dealer. In order to modify your buyback, wouldn't the dealer have to first buy it from VW?
The new unsold 2015 TDi fix is a two phase operation. Initial fix requires minimal time to be followed by phase two requiring nine hours of labor. That might provide some insight into required fix time. I doubt more than a week ie 40 hours labor, is required. Just a guess.

As stated in my scenario: VW AG buys back the car. Not the dealer. Yes, the dealer then buys the car from VW AG assuming the dealer thinks that car has resale possibilities.
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 06:56   #13
bring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Barnhill View Post
The new unsold 2015 TDi fix is a two phase operation. Initial fix requires minimal time to be followed by phase two requiring nine hours of labor. That might provide some insight into required fix time. I doubt more than a week ie 40 hours labor, is required. Just a guess.

As stated in my scenario: VW AG buys back the car. Not the dealer. Yes, the dealer then buys the car from VW AG assuming the dealer thinks that car has resale possibilities.

Even if you had a gen 3, no chance that all happens within a week - my guess is a year might be more likely
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 07:01   #14
Gary Barnhill
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bring View Post
please point to where it states 4 cylinder TDIs?
Apparently, Herbert Diess did not make a distinction as to how many cylinders VW will use if they return to VW's U.S. lineup.

Excerpt from article:
Herbert Diess says that diesels will continue to have a role in Volkswagen’s U.S. lineup because, with the latest emissions technologies, diesels can be clean. He also touted the long range and high torque of diesel engines.

“I wouldn’t give up diesel, even in the U.S.,” Diess told reporters on the sidelines of VW’s CES keynote here Tuesday night

Last edited by Gary Barnhill; August 23rd, 2016 at 07:25. Reason: spelling
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Old August 23rd, 2016, 07:06   #15
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Right - I never said they would stop selling 6 cylinder (or larger) TDIs here in the US

Last edited by bring; August 23rd, 2016 at 07:09.
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